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| Member |
It's a long post about your inaccuracy and incorrect statements. I elected not to engage in name calling as there was no personal attack. You've spent nearly 30 pages rambling on and clearly take it extremely personally (you don't really own a P320, do you?). It's evident to most that you are here to argue, and that's your stake in your game. This matter will be addressed in public by Sig in five days. Will you still be arguing until you're blue in the face then, or will you run out of steam, first? This really is a passion of yours, isn't it? Nearly forgot...you've solved all the internet firearm problems before anyone else and you're doing it now for us...because you're an aircraft mishap investigator. Funny thing is, you sure don't behave as one. Was that a personal attack? | |||
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| Member |
In 1944 a Smith & Wesson Military & Police .38 fired when dropped on a naval vessel's deck, killing a sailor. The Navy demanded that the susceptibility be corrected. The story goes that a S&W design team, led by Mr Wesson himself, redesigned the hammer block over the weekend and put it into production as soon as tooling could be modified. In addition to all new production, late 1944 to date, they were able to recall 40,000 revolvers for retrofit in the middle of a war. Of course there were hundreds of thousands of deployed revolvers and older commercial models not affected. It is now usually recommended that a S&W with pre-1944 hammer block (or pre 1917 rebound only without any hammer block) be treated like a SAA and left with the chamber under the hammer empty. Does this mean you should carry your pre 8/14/17 P320 in "Condition 3"? | |||
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| Peace through superior firepower  |
OK, enough. No one who is reading this thread wants to wade through a bunch of bickering. RX-79G, you have made your feelings known and you need to take a break for a while. ____________________________________________________ "I am your retribution." - Donald Trump, speech at CPAC, March 4, 2023 | |||
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Member |
Sig Sauer GmbH has been rehiring people and ramping up production. Where did you hear that they have no design people anymore? My understanding is that some relocated to USA in the late 2014, early 2015 time frame, but nowhere near all of them. The last pistol designed in Eckernforde was the P226 LDC II introduced in March 2016. Furthermore, Eckernförde has an R&D department lead by Bernd Wille. You could ask him whether he has just an empty desk in front of him or if he has a team to work with? | |||
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| Member |
Thanks for explaining the situation. Knowing the quality of Sig guns I really hope they step up and fix this at their cost. They are not the most expensive gun out there but they are not cheap either. I can't afford to buy something since I just bought this one 2 weeks before all this came to light. I thought if the military was going to change to this gun all the testing that was needed had been done. | |||
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| Thank you Very little  |
Glocks latest face book post is a direct shot at Sig p320 I guess the loss of the military contract still hurts The comments are heavily against GLOCK doing this https://www.facebook.com/GLOCK...ts/10155577433031797 | |||
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Sigforum K9 handler |
Yeah they did. The comments are like watching a blind kid whipping a baby seal.  | |||
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| Leatherneck |
Lol. Well Sig fired the first shot in their press release. Actually Sig has been taking shots at Glock with a lot of their marketing since the release. That picture Rhino posted off their website has a couple in it. Of course that is normal in marketing campaigns but you can't attack a brand and say you don't need the same shit to be safe and then expect them to not fire back if you end up being wrong. Don't start none, won't be none.  “Everybody wants a Sig in the sheets but a Glock on the streets.” -bionic218 04-02-2014 | |||
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| Leatherneck |
Fair enough. I should have wrote "why some of the Agency Arms modifications on that pistol are dangerous", which is what I really meant. “Everybody wants a Sig in the sheets but a Glock on the streets.” -bionic218 04-02-2014 | |||
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| Go ahead punk, make my day |
Some quick math tells me that to do this 'P320 upgrade', it will cost SIG between 10 and 40 Million bucks, if they absorb the whole cost, depending on how many are returned. We'll see if they try to defray that a bit by having the owners chip in for shipping, etc. I guess Ron can kiss his end of year bonus goodbye. | |||
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| Member |
If Sig wants a viable business after this mess they better just offer everyone a free no charge no questions upgrade. Anything less is suicide. “So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong, and strike at what is weak.” | |||
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| Member |
I was wondering about what the per unit cost was going to be for Sig. 10 million seems to be on the low side. I am sure Sig is running these numbers and trying to figure the least expensive way to fix all these guns. I would hope Sig is also weighing the costs of passing the expenses on to the customers. If they expect the consumer to pay anything (including shipping), that is not going to help solve this issue. I'm sure lawyers on both sides of this are hard at work going over the details. | |||
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Member |
Another failed test, with the mallet. The gun is upright, I don't think trigger momentum plays into the discharge. I know some may discard the mallet use but the force used isn't all that much. Just food for thought. https://youtu.be/veI5NsDqG9E | |||
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| Go ahead punk, make my day |
My rough math goes this way. Bulk Round trip Shipping - $30 per unit Bulk Repair Parts - $20 per unit (WAG) Labor - say 2 hours total from customer initiating recall / upgrade process, SIG getting shipping setup, receiving, inventory, movement of the weapon site, repair, testing, and return shipping process - maybe $20 per hour (?), so $40 total (another WAG). So that give me $90 per weapon. Half million weapons --> $45Mil I gave the $10M as the low side if people say my cost estimates are high and only half of the people return for 'upgrade', i.e. $11.25M That doesn't take into account labor, equipment, testing, etc to create the fix, nor any replacement parts / effort for caliber conversion kits, nor time lost having those people not available to make new weapons to sell. Anyway you cut it, that is a lot of cheddar. | |||
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Certified All Positions |
As far as the per unit cost for SIG, firstly, BOO-frickin-HOO if they have to shell out some dough to fix a problem. In essence, an established firearms mfgr with guvmint contracts is a fucking money tree. They can take the hit. At worst, they'll come out looking like what, HK? Arc. ______________________________ "Like a bitter weed, I'm a bad seed"- Johnny Cash "I'm a loner, Dottie. A rebel." - Pee Wee Herman Rode hard, put away wet. RIP JHM "You're a junkyard dog." - Lupe Flores. RIP | |||
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| Member |
I carry a Glock. I take great pains not to drop it, and it hasn't discharged spontaneously or exploded in a massive fireball, taking out entire city blocks. Then again, neither have any of my Sigs. I am afraid of neither, and will wait for Sig's "upgrade" offering before I worry that the sky might fall.
Doesn't really matter if it's a hammer bumping the pistol or some other object. It's clear that the pistol can be discharged, and Sig has noted this with their own testing. The web is ripe with a plethora of videos now of people doing the same thing in one form or another, bent on beating that deceased equine until only a bloody pulp remains. In five days, Sig presents their fix and their press release. I'm content wait the few days and listen to what they have to say. It's being addressed. | |||
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| Go ahead punk, make my day |
Oh, I don't feel bad for them. $45 Million is money well spent for SIG to win the Facebook Meme war with Glock. Just makes me believe that this 'upgrade' wont be 'free' to the customer. | |||
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Raptorman |
As I recall, Springfield had a recall not too long ago and it collapsed the value on those pistols even though they were repaired and fully functional. I see this as a golden opportunity to finally pick a 320C up for substantially under the outrageous $600 they are charging for them. There is a silver lining to this. ____________________________ Eeewwww, don't touch it! Here, poke at it with this stick. | |||
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Member |
I agree that they should offer a no questions asked free upgrade. I have a really modified FS and I'm pretty sure they won't touch it, which is a shame for me. -wolff "In the absence of light, darkness prevails." - Professor Bruttenholm | |||
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| Certified All Positions |
So, I guess France won't want a P320 contract? Arc. ______________________________ "Like a bitter weed, I'm a bad seed"- Johnny Cash "I'm a loner, Dottie. A rebel." - Pee Wee Herman Rode hard, put away wet. RIP JHM "You're a junkyard dog." - Lupe Flores. RIP | |||
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