quote:

Originally posted by RX-79G:
If I'm following the MHS changes, SIG is pretty much throwing out much of the P320 design and putting in things like a disconnector.

The disconnector will only be in civilian guns per The Firearms Blog

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:

quote:

Originally posted by Nipper:
Re the P320, I'm waiting until the dust settles.

This ^^^^^ is precisely what I'm doing.

It's the same with me. My 320C will simply cease to function for the time being.

I think what bugs me most is that this was not discovered earlier. I don't know what if any standards there are for drop tests for civilian gun sales and markets, but this reeks like it has to be something that should've been found in product development and testing and fixed long before the gun entered production. And then there's the backpedaling from the 8/4/17 company statement to their more recent 'voluntary recall'. It all leaves a sour taste and reinforces my long-running distrust for the company's CEO.

quote:

Originally posted by RX-79G:
Anyway, sounds like they are trying to normalize the goofy P320 lockwork into something that works like a normal gun.

Define "normal".

RX-79G, with regards to the subject at hand, what would make you happy at this point?

quote:

There's one guy out there that thinks the PELT trigger makes it worse...

I'll buy it from him for a cheeseburger and a soda.



He seems panicked enough...

quote:

Originally posted by YooperSigs:
After reading everything posted thus far, here is my plan:
I will put my P320C into my safe.
Wait patiently for Sig to correct the situation.
Call Sig for a prepaid shipping label.
Ship it to Sig.
Test fire after getting it back to ensure reliability.
Then live happily ever after.

Thank you. This is my line of thinking as well.

I apologize in advance if I offend anybody.

Let's think about this. If your hair is on fire over this, find a bucket of water. Ok, is everybody calm and rational now?

Of course Sig Sauer will fix this issue. To even think otherwise is not reasonable.

• The P320 is the most popular handgun for Sig in years.
  
  
• Sig wants only safe guns coming out of the factory.
  
  
• The liability of not fixing this issue is staggering.
  
  
• The resources at the factory are of huge proportions!

Sig Sauer can and will restore confidence in the P320. They are extremely capable and it is in their best interest as well as that of their customers.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
RX-79G, with regards to the subject at hand, what would make you happy at this point?

The discussion of the P320 problem? A little more openness and honesty? Seems like every time I post something like "that's strange that they said 'commercial market'" someone makes it sound like I'm being a hater, and then a few days later it turns out that there was a very good reason for that proviso.


If you mean what would make me happy as far as the P320 itself goes? I would just like it if people understood that SIG USA has engaged in a completely experimental design that has little basis in proven firearms systems and that SIG USA and its SME's don't fully comprehend. People should adjust their expectations to the fact that the P320, as it was 5 days ago, was a radical departure by a firm that doesn't really have any real firearms design experience.

This isn't a pistol that needs a tweak. This is like when the British sent the SA80 to HK for them to fix it. Consumers should be actively questioning every move SIG makes with this design from here on out - because they really don't know what they are doing.

quote:

Originally posted by Top Gun Supply:
I apologize in advance if I offend anybody.

Let's think about this. If your hair is on fire over this, find a bucket of water. Ok, is everybody calm and rational now?

Of course Sig Sauer will fix this issue. To even think otherwise is not reasonable.

• The P320 is the most popular handgun for Sig in years.
  
  
• Sig wants only safe guns coming out of the factory.
  
  
• The liability of not fixing this issue is staggering.
  
  
• The resources at the factory are of huge proportions!

Sig Sauer can and will restore confidence in the P320. They are extremely capable and it is in their best interest as well as that of their customers.

I hope that you are right and agree that SIG Sauer would take on enormous potential liability if they do not correct this issue, and should do so at their expense.

Two things bother me. The fact that they are calling this a "voluntary upgrade" and the fact that in their initial press release the said that they had not determined who would pay for the "upgrade".

My Beretta 70 has a 100% probability of discharging when dropped. Don't need no stinkin' angles.

$5.00 shipping included and I'll throw in the ten (10) mags and various assorted parts.

quote:

Originally posted by RX-79G:
I would just like it if people understood that SIG USA has engaged in a completely experimental design that has little basis in proven firearms systems and that SIG USA and its SME's don't fully comprehend. People should adjust their expectations to the fact that the P320, as it was 5 days ago, was a radical departure by a firm that doesn't really have any real firearms design experience.

This isn't a pistol that needs a tweak. This is like when the British sent the SA80 to HK for them to fix it. Consumers should be actively questioning every move SIG makes with this design from here on out - because they really don't know what they are doing.

Can I ask what qualifies you to make that statement?

You seem to be implying that Sig USA has no firearms design experience hence they should not try any new designs. Well wasn't the Glock a "radical new design" by a company that had no firearms design experience?

quote:

Originally posted by RX-79G:
...I would just like it if people understood that SIG USA has engaged in a completely experimental design that has little basis in proven firearms systems and that SIG USA and its SME's don't fully comprehend. People should adjust their expectations to the fact that the P320, as it was 5 days ago, was a radical departure by a firm that doesn't really have any real firearms design experience.

Consumers should be actively questioning every move SIG makes with this design from here on out - because they really don't know what they are doing.

I am really curious what has brought you to this conclusion. What you are saying is a serious statement. You must have some knowledge or experience that I do not. I am not trying to stir the proverbial pot. I am just taken aback by the level of onslaught towards a company that is experiencing something that many others have. Glocks have been blowing up for years. S&W barrels used to shoot right off the frames.

quote:

Originally posted by mbinky:

quote:

Originally posted by RX-79G:
I would just like it if people understood that SIG USA has engaged in a completely experimental design that has little basis in proven firearms systems and that SIG USA and its SME's don't fully comprehend. People should adjust their expectations to the fact that the P320, as it was 5 days ago, was a radical departure by a firm that doesn't really have any real firearms design experience.

This isn't a pistol that needs a tweak. This is like when the British sent the SA80 to HK for them to fix it. Consumers should be actively questioning every move SIG makes with this design from here on out - because they really don't know what they are doing.

Can I ask what qualifies you to make that statement?

No need to ask. He's a legend in his own mind.

Just a thought but I wonder if the introduction of the adverse trigger, which would appear to be of greater mass than the original design, may have something to do with this.

With extensive testing having been performed on the original pistol design without any issue arising, upon introduction of the adverse trigger the pistol may not have gone through the same testing protocol.

So you have no personal experience with Sig USA's engineering IPT? You have just decided they have no idea what they are doing based on your other experiences. Fair enough.

quote:

Originally posted by RX-79G:

Mainly a long history of seeing problems in complex mechanical systems when I was doing aircraft crash investigations...

Ok, so you worked for the NTSB? FAA?

If you did, you know that no conclusion is made prematurely, even if you see a glaring clue. The investigators wait until all evidence is in and is thoroughly inspected by multiple sources.

Yet, you make conclusions on firearm design flaws based on text, photos and videos on the internet. Step away from the pitchfork and torch. It is early.

I have been following this story from the start. Let's leave the ADs/NDs out as we don't have enough info to know what really happened.

I still don't understand how this would re-occur in a normal situation. From what I can tell, this is happening on the second drop(or second or third blow of hammer on the rear on the slide). Let's assume a reasonable person drops their P320 and it does not discharge. Would the reasonable person not check for damage, or do a function check? Once you rack the slide, the striker is reset. It seems like this whole contrived scenario involves a situation that is unlikely to occur.

quote:

Originally posted by RX-79G:
No, I'm the one who has said multiple times in this thread that no one should assume that SIG has found the cause and created a perfect solution in a weekend. The mechanism is too complicated to say that a single part is at fault.

So, instead, we should assume that Sig is confused by all of those little parts? The company that designed it probably doesn't find it as complicated as you do.

Please tell me about your aircraft crash investigation experience.

quote:

Originally posted by RC Fan:
I have been following this story from the start. Let's leave the ADs/NDs out as we don't have enough info to know what really happened.

I still don't understand how this would re-occur in a normal situation. From what I can tell, this is happening on the second drop(or second or third blow of hammer on the rear on the slide). Let's assume a reasonable person drops their P320 and it does not discharge. Would the reasonable person not check for damage, or do a function check? Once you rack the slide, the striker is reset. It seems like this whole contrived scenario involves a situation that is unlikely to occur.

The SWAT officer in CT was allegedly shot in the leg when his hostered pistol fell to the ground while he was loading equipment in the trunk of his car. That would appear to directly contradict your assertion.

quote:

But why don't we just dispense with the penis comparison stuff and just talk about the facts:

So your pontificating about Sig's R&D are "the facts"?

How much time have you spent inside their facility, examining their design and manufacturing equipment? Just the facts, please.