http://www.tactical-life.com/n...allas-pd/#sig-p320-2

A blog by the name of GunMagWarehouse.com erroneously reported that there had been a Dallas PD training incident involving Sig Sauer P320. Specifically, the blog stated that the pistol “discharged as a result of being dropped during training,” which was far from the truth.

“The Dallas Police Department has not tested the P320 and has had no issue with the P320,” Sig spokesman Jordan Hunter told Tactical-Life.

There was never a “defect” with the P320. The confusion stemmed from an out-of-date manual that was given to the Dallas Police Department’s new lieutenant, according to Hunter."

Wow, Arc. I know you're a Mod but you do realize the DFW non- issue is not the current issue right?

I don't like it one bit but the evidence is piling up that there absolutely is an issue.

quote:

Originally posted by arcwelder76:
http://www.tactical-life.com/n...allas-pd/#sig-p320-2

A blog by the name of GunMagWarehouse.com erroneously reported that there had been a Dallas PD training incident involving Sig Sauer P320. Specifically, the blog stated that the pistol “discharged as a result of being dropped during training,” which was far from the truth.

“The Dallas Police Department has not tested the P320 and has had no issue with the P320,” Sig spokesman Jordan Hunter told Tactical-Life.

There was never a “defect” with the P320. The confusion stemmed from an out-of-date manual that was given to the Dallas Police Department’s new lieutenant, according to Hunter."

It doesn't matter if the entire Dallas thing was a big lie. It opened Pandoras box and sig can't close it with a statement that is crafted to say a problem doesn't exist when one does.

Go to the link in my post above and see if a problem truly doesn't exist. Sig needs to learn from Ruger and truly recall a product when it is bad.

https://pistol-forum.com/showt...safety-issues/page35

quote:

Originally posted by 9mmdude:
It doesn't matter if the entire Dallas thing was a big lie. It opened Pandoras box and sig can't close it with a statement that is crafted to say a problem doesn't exist when one does.

Go to the link in my post above and see if a problem truly doesn't exist. Sig needs to learn from Ruger and truly recall a product when it is bad.

https://pistol-forum.com/showt...safety-issues/page35

Or the video that came before Dallas. None of that matters now.

This thread should probably be re-named "P320 drop safety in question", since it's gone way beyond just the Dallas PD.

quote:

Originally posted by Chris17404:
This thread should probably be re-named "P320 drop safety in question", since it's gone way beyond just the Dallas PD.

Done!

Hopefully we'll get some more facts to back up the assertation that all these drop test failures are fakes.

Or maybe a slew of tests where they don't fire.

Until then the videos speak volumes.

Or maybe it's just part of the wider Glocker conspiracy to rule the World.

quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:
Hopefully we'll get some more facts to back up the assertation that all these drop test failures are fakes.

Yeah right.

Shits real now!

So what everybody is saying is. "You will buy a Glock".

Seriously though this thing grew legs fast. I would imagine problem real or imagined SIG needs to get out in front of this in some way.

Christ I imagine there are guns being thrown every which way across the room in Exeter. I bet you can't walk down a hallway without a 320 being flung across the room at you.

Didn't the original P320 have a tabbed trigger or that option???

I've read the thread. Watched the video. Read outside statements, articles, reports. Just bought a P320.

I don't doubt the videos point to the fact that if dropped, the P320 could be made to discharge. I've known for a very long time that a number of firearms might discharge if dropped or mishandled. I'm not shocked, frightened, or concerned that the P320 might, either.

I don't plan to install an external safety. That would defeat the point of the firearm for me. I don't plan to panic, sell the firearm, sue Sig, or go screaming into the night. I might even buy another P320.

I was entertained by BigBore's well known abuses of his G21 years ago when he dragged it behind cars, threw it out of airplanes, ran over it, froze it, and did everything else he could think of to abuse it. It held up. It didn't inadvertently discharge. It fired when recovered from its abuses. Entertaining, encouraging even, but had his firearm discharged from drops, rolls, falls, beatings, heatings, and other things, I still wouldn't be too put off.

I suspect Sig will continue in denial for a while about the issue, and it is an issue which should be addressed. It's just not an issue which worries me in the least.

Then again, I carry six rounds in a single action revolver.

The P320 isn't idiot proof. Scary.

I wonder if Dallas got word about the dropped AD in Connecticut that occurred in January? That could have got the ball rolling on pulling the P320. There's a lot of communication between firearms instructors between agencies. Official and un official.

https://drive.google.com/file/...N3l1SHkwQ243TWs/view (Lawsuit against Sig)

Based on the angle of the shot, entering below the knee at an upward trajectory it seems fairly definitive that the gun went off when dropped. According to court documents, it was still in a holster, then there's no question what happened.

A gun that fires muzzle down if dropped is bad. One that drop fires up and back at the carrier is particularly bad.

It also explains Sigs statement that there has been no incident in the "commercial" market. It also means Sig has likely known the P320 was potentially not drop safe for eight months. And didn't mention it to end users.

quote:

Originally posted by Sgt 127:
It also explains Sigs statement that there has been no incident in the "commercial" market. It also means Sig has likely known the P320 was potentially not drop safe for eight months. And didn't mention it to end users.

Possibly longer.

Maybe they took the car manufacturers viewpoint of how many incidents, how many will make it to court, how much it would cost to settle compared to a fix?

Maybe the XM17 competition factored in. What would have happened if this had come to light 8-12 months ago, when the competition was still in work? I'm sure a "SIG RECALLS P320, a MHS finalist" on the front page of Army/Navy/Marine Times would have been like taking a big dump on their Proposal.

It's business and it's all about the $$$$$. IMO, anyway.

True that.
How many will be dropped?
How many will hit at the correct angle to fire?
How many will injure or kill someone?
How bad will this make us look?

Rolling the corporate dice.

But, if caught (and, it appears they got caught) the damage to the company reputation can be very expensive.

Don't forget....



" Safety without compromise.

Safety isn’t negotiable.

The P320 maximizes peace of mind with a robust safety system. Never again will you need to pull the trigger to disassemble your pistol.

And, while available as an option, you won’t need a tabbed trigger safety for your gun to be drop safe. "

https://www.sigsauer.com/produ...rearms/pistols/p320/

quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:

Pretty funny.

My 2 or less than 2 cents.

I just picked up my 320 X5 on Saturday. I will NOT be dropping it for testing purposes. In fact I will be setting it up, loading up and practicing for USPSA. I will NOT be carrying said firearm loaded on any form of concrete. Ever (I live in Jersey so no carry). All times when it will be loaded and in a holster will be over dirt or grass.

It seems that the firearm is a good competition gun. I will gladly use it in that capacity.

That said, I have a MK25 (some competition use) and a XDS-9 for carry (in Florida) as I personally feel better about their safety systems. I also used to drive a Covair and the old VW beetle (same suspension system that Ralph Nader skewerd in "Unsafe at Any Speed") and lived to tell about it.

I will carry on and hope Sig gets passed this with minimal pain.

This is a long thread and I haven't read the whole thing, so sorry if this has been pointed out already...

Sig started a contest about a month ago where you could win an "Ultimate P320 Prize Package", and to enter you have to register an existing P320. If there were a recall coming, this would be a great way to motivate owners to register. I could be wrong, but registering probably isn't a bad idea:
https://www.sigsauer.com/promo...ze-package-giveaway/

quote:

Originally posted by sns3guppy:
I've read the thread. Watched the video. Read outside statements, articles, reports. Just bought a P320.

I don't doubt the videos point to the fact that if dropped, the P320 could be made to discharge. I've known for a very long time that a number of firearms might discharge if dropped or mishandled. I'm not shocked, frightened, or concerned that the P320 might, either.

I don't plan to install an external safety. That would defeat the point of the firearm for me. I don't plan to panic, sell the firearm, sue Sig, or go screaming into the night. I might even buy another P320.

I was entertained by BigBore's well known abuses of his G21 years ago when he dragged it behind cars, threw it out of airplanes, ran over it, froze it, and did everything else he could think of to abuse it. It held up. It didn't inadvertently discharge. It fired when recovered from its abuses. Entertaining, encouraging even, but had his firearm discharged from drops, rolls, falls, beatings, heatings, and other things, I still wouldn't be too put off.

I suspect Sig will continue in denial for a while about the issue, and it is an issue which should be addressed. It's just not an issue which worries me in the least.

Then again, I carry six rounds in a single action revolver.

The P320 isn't idiot proof. Scary.

Sorry Guppy, but I just can't agree with you here. You are conflating a gun that goes off when dropped from 3-4 feet (even onto padded surfaces) with someone dragging a gun behind a truck.

The kind of torture tests we normally see on the internet fall under the realm of "idiot proofing" or unrealistic tests. If these latest p320 videos are true... and the evidence is piling up... then this is a very very serious design flaw that I certainly don't consider to be "idiot proofing"

Both the lawsuit and what I've read on other forums indicate that pistols falling is a very regular occurrence and that Drop safety is a FUNDAMENTAL requirement... not a superfluous "idiot proofing."

Don't conflate sensational extreme tests on the internet, with a simple drop from 4 feet inducing a failure. Two completely different ballparks.

FYI: For those with an interest in boring factual data, here is the current SAAMI/ANSI standard for drop testing. See PDF Page 8 (Section 5. Drop Test, doc page 2):

http://saami.org/specification...usiveMishandling.pdf

It is titled:
American National Standard
Voluntary Industry Performance Standards Criteria for Evaluation of New
Firearms Designs Under Conditions of Abusive Mishandling for the Use of Commercial Manufacturers

COMMENTS/EXCERPTS:

1) Of note is that it says (caps mine) "VOLUNTARY Industry Performance Standards" and "Under Conditions of ABUSIVE MISHANDLING". I had presumed they were mandatory.

2) Test criteria for height are: "Dropped height of four feet onto a "85±5 Durometer (Shore A) rubber mat, one (1)
inch thick (2.54 cm), backed by concrete."

3) Test criteria for drop axes are:

a) Barrel vertical, muzzle down.
b) Barrel vertical, muzzle up.
c) Barrel horizontal, bottom up.
d) Barrel horizontal, bottom down.
e) Barrel horizontal, left side up.
f) Barrel horizontal, right side up.

4) Pistol must have a mag with dummy cartridges in place: "The test shall be conducted with the magazine, clip or remaining revolver cylinder chambers fully loaded with SAAMI-compliant gun functioning dummy cartridges and locked in place."

*********************************************
DISCLAIMER: I'm not endorsing the current SAAMI standard, the adequacy of it or any other drop safety standards. I have ZERO position on it, one way or another. It's just information.

I wonder when the Youtube boys will start "drop testing" all the other pistols out there. Get ready for the onslaught. It could become the new national pastime.

Not that anybody cares, but I'm shooting with our defensive shooting group at my LGC tonight. I'll be using my defective, highly dangerous, obsolete 2015 first gen P320C 9mm. If you don't see any more posts from me you'll know what happened...

Sig needs to get in front of this. There is obviously something to it. Continuing to deny it only makes them look worse. Put a trigger safety on it and move on, Sig.