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| Member |
Honest question -- do you trust Sig to properly diagnose this issue, develop a fix, and then test the fix thoroughly on this expedited time line. Then, given the limitations of factory testing, how much real world experience by users with the fix in their pistols, before you would trust the 320 again? How about those of us that besides owning stock pistols, have 320 pistols with expensive trigger jobs for gaming. This one hits home for me. Two years ago, I had a stock 320C .357 Sig pop out of my holster and hit the floor of the cockpit, while flying a plane in heavy turbulence. It was only about an eighteen inch fall, and I believe it hit on its side, but it did not discharge. I am really happy that I wasn't as unlucky as the guy in CT. There is no way I would ever have considered carrying a 320 if I was aware of this propensity to discharge when falling muzzle up. | |||
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| Gracie Allen is my personal savior! |
Honest answer. That depends on the accuracy of the TTAG article that BuddyChryst provided a link to. It said that what SIG is proposing to do is provide private owners with the same parts that were always going to be standard for the Army's pistols. If that's true, then the development work for what constitutes the fix was probably done some time ago. | |||
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| Go ahead punk, make my day |
Para, thank you for your continued tolerance and consistent moderation of your forum. I no longer own a P320 but carried one for 6 months, thinking it lived up to the standard of the SIG PR department, to include being drop safe - it was the first striker fired pistol I ever carried and I trusted it was safe. I now judge that trust to have been grossly misplaced; however I was fortunate to divest myself from it with little to no loss over the past several months - for other issues not related to this topic. I feel sorry for those I know who have invested time, money, and their businesses into this mess. It will be interesting to see SIGs future actions with respect to the upgrade, recall, or whatever it is called. In my experience, where there is smoke, there is typically fire. I hope SIG does what I would consider 'the right thing', but I'd put stacked odds against it. To all those with skin in the game, good luck. | |||
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Member |
If you think the only change to the fire control parts is the addition of a manual safety and ignore trigger mods, striker mods and disconnector, then you don't understand the statement. I think of things in their totality not just focus on one aspect. Sig stated everything was fine a few days ago, carry on nothing to see here. Meanwhile there are siggnificant changes to design that would take months to vet, but are included in the M17 and Sig will now retrofit those guns with the same parts. And is not sure who will pay for it?? Really. Conspiracy likely not, but a business decision to not expose a costly retrofit very possible and likely given the current stance taken by SIg. Joe Back in Tx. | |||
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| Do No Harm, Do Know Harm |
I try not to drop my guns very often. In fact, I only remember dropping one, once. A Sig P239, on a tile bathroom floor in my house, directly on the hammer. The mark is still there. I'm glad it didn't go off. I have concern, for reasons already mentioned, in how SIG has handled the background of this issue with the 320. I look forward to learning more. Knowing what one is talking about is widely admired but not strictly required here. Although sometimes distracting, there is often a certain entertainment value to this easy standard. -JALLEN "All I need is a WAR ON DRUGS reference and I got myself a police thread BINGO." -jljones | |||
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| JOIN, or DIE |
If the fixes described are accurate, that seems like an awful lot of weight to be dropping from the trigger, sear and striker. | |||
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| Member |
To a great extent, evaluating the solution requires a full understanding of the problem, which we still do not have. Did the defect exist in the P320's original design (i.e. from the first gun off the production line) or did it arise from subsequent production changes (i.e. introduction of the adverse trigger)? If the latter was the case, a 'fix' might be as simple as reverting to the original trigger design. If the former was the case, resolution might be much more complex. Sig has not made an explicit statement about why changes were made to the M17 (although reference to eliminating the 'double-click' provides some insight). It is possible that Sig made changes to the M17 for an entirely different purpose, but those changes also fortuitously address the drop-fire problem. It is also possible the Sig knew of, or suspected, a drop-fire problem and made changes to the M17 for that specific purpose. We simply do not have enough information -about the cause of the problem or the nature of the resolution- to be making conclusions as definitively as some people would like. ------------------- The most recent TTAG article includes some very good additional information, particularly in its The Why section. | |||
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| Member |
I am reminded of the early gen 4 Glock issues. First it was thought to be the RSA. Then it was the ejector, replaced with a new one. Finally, the finger was pointed at the extractor, apparently outsourced to a different vendor, which turned out to be common to late model Gen 3 pistols that also started having problems. Committing to a fix in a week seems a tad aggressive. | |||
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| Member |
WOW. What a thread. I haven't read every single post and sorry if this already mentioned but would a Glock style "Safe Action Trigger" help prevent this issue? Is this the fix that SIG is planning to offer? It seems like nearly every single striker fired pistol has the trigger safety as standard, except for the P320. | |||
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| Member |
This should scare anyone considering carrying a 320, prior to a fix: http://www.thefirearmblog.com/...pping-no-plans-test/ | |||
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| Leatherneck |
And seemingly for good reason. I watched a YouTube video today of a Glock firing when dropped just like the Sig P320 is. Of course when I slowed the video down and got a look at the gun being dropped it was clearly modified and included an aftermarket trigger without the tab. Take away the tab and the Glock will fire when dropped on its ass too. Which is probably one of the reasons they made the tab standard. “Everybody wants a Sig in the sheets but a Glock on the streets.” -bionic218 04-02-2014 | |||
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| Member |
After reading everything posted thus far, here is my plan: I will put my P320C into my safe. Wait patiently for Sig to correct the situation. Call Sig for a prepaid shipping label. Ship it to Sig. Test fire after getting it back to ensure reliability. Then live happily ever after. End of Earth: 2 Miles Upper Peninsula: 4 Miles | |||
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| Member |
I have followed some recent threads where the VP9 and PPQ had their striker dislodged by a whack with a mallet. This seems like a possibility with a fully tensioned striker design. This dislodging of the striker resulted in a dead trigger, but no loud noise, because the firing pin block safety worked. I am no engineer, but it seems like Sig needs to figure out how to get their firing pin block safety to work better. If it did work, this whole deal would not be the catastrophe this has turned into. | |||
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| Gloom, despair and agony on me.  |
Yeah cause I often whack my gun with a hammer serveral times before I go about my day.  | |||
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| Member |
Walther CCP doesn't have the trigger safety, but it does have a manual safety. Maybe the reason the M17 has the safety? I don't have a vested interest in this like many here. I didn't care for the pop can feel of the grip and wasn't impressed with the feel of the trigger. I almost started a thread several months ago about not understanding all the hype over the 320. I think part of it had to do with waiting until the new firearm had a proven track record. Was out on the market long enough to work out the kinks. Thinking about the teething problems they've had in the past with the 238/MPX/Etc. I feel for all the people on the other side of the fence, that have invested time/money into their new purchase.  | |||
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There is a world elsewhere |
Just pointing out, if SIG submitted this to the testing labs and they didn't do a -30deg drop test, then how many other manufacturers' pistols weren't dropped t similar angles either? It would take years of testing for each new firearms i.e. I'd bet a paycheck that no other firearm manufacturer has tried the over 46,000,000 angle combinations in their drop tests either
http://soldiersystems.net/2017...untary-p320-upgrade/ A well balanced breakfast being necessary to the start of a healthy day, the right of the people to keep and eat food shall not be infringed. | |||
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| Member |
Do we know for certain that this very specific drop angle was the cause of the AD or ND in this latest court case? Seems like people are drawing a lot of ire from that assumption. Cathy | |||
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Member |
Does anyone have connections to the military testers who conducted the P320 tests for the military? Do the military accepted pistols have the same trigger weight/ pull/ feel (except for the double click) as the civilian pistols? If not, what is different? Sic Semper Tyrannis If you beat your swords into plowshares, you will become farmers for those who didn't! Political Correctness is fascism pretending to be Manners-George Carlin | |||
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| Member |
It appears you are assuming Sig will cover the cost of the upgrade.. If this was a recall I could see that.. but this is a "Voluntary" upgrade so I take that to mean that if you want it.. you pay for it.. Unless ofcouse someone knows otherwise.. ______________________________ Retired Navy RM/ITC(SW) 1982-2002 USS Edward McDonnell (FF-1043) Mayport FL USS Pegasus (PHM-1) Key West FL. USS Carl Vinson (CVN-70) Bremerton WA. Sig P938/238 Equinox Sig P320C RX Colt Mustang XSP FE | |||
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Member |
Could be wrong but I haven't seen anyone test this on the "x" series. Wonder if that has same issue with the straight trigger? As an aside I always expect a dropped gun to go bang, just old school I guess. Not that I am trying to excuse sig to or anything but I feel a lot of these videos are like YouTube torture tests. While factually true it's a rare occasion any of this will bear fruit. | |||
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