quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
"Scientists Are Clueless" ...

Thanks, Para. Well said.

It's like Jeopardy....I'll take 'Scientists are Clueless' for $500 Para

No, Mister Scientist, don't show me your diploma and tell me how you spent years in school. Clearly, it's not enough, because you keep getting this wrong. It's not even that your efforts are ineffective; it's worse than that. You are making people sicker, or more susceptible to sickness, and sometimes you kill people with your blind-ass guesses.

What is 'Dr. Fauchi'... Correct!

I wonder- what things which are now accepted as scientific fact will be found in the future to be false. It's happened all throughout human history but no longer, right? Because, well, we have all these gadgets and we've gained knowledge and we're just so much smarter than people of the past. Nope. No. We are moving through history. Tomorrow, today will be yesterday. If we were as smart as we think ourselves, we'd be humble and acknowledge what we don't know, and what we do know may not necessarily be true.

What is 'Basically EVERYTHING related to COVID'... Correct!

quote:

Originally posted by wcb6092:
Trust the Science? CDC Counts People Who Died Within 14 Days of Jab as “Unvaccinated”

....

Looks like the Trump supporters are the real culprits here.

We can't trust the science because we can't trust the scientists.

I thought Lambda was immune to the vaccines?

I wonder how common this is. I've thought the whole mass testing and "counting cases" was the sketchiest part of the whole process.

https://www.foxnews.com/entert...-coronavirus-mistake

I chatted with a cardiologist friend of mine this past weekend, and my question to him was "what Novel type virus have we ever approached in the manner we're approaching this virus?" And though he responded that this virus is more infectious than many of the others and has a slightly higher mortality rate than influenza, he did admit that he did not know of any other viruses we've approached this way. I also asked him to offer "an example of a similar virus in which we completely ignored the very real aspect of built natural immunity?" He could not. I did not ask him if he was vaccinated because I personally believe that's private, but from knowing the man for the past 15 years, and reading his responses to my questions, my bet would be that he isn't.

quote:

I did not ask him if he was vaccinated because I personally believe that's private, but from knowing the man for the past 15 years, and reading his responses to my questions, my bet would be that he isn't.

That has been my biggest issue from the beginning. Your personal medical decision is just that: personal and private.
It's none of your employer's business. They shouldn't ask, and if asked you don't have to tell them.
But what we have now is the government leaning on employers to mandate an experimental treatment.

quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:

quote:

I did not ask him if he was vaccinated because I personally believe that's private, but from knowing the man for the past 15 years, and reading his responses to my questions, my bet would be that he isn't.

That has been my biggest issue from the beginning. Your personal medical decision is just that: personal and private.
It's none of your employer's business. They shouldn't ask, and if asked you don't have to tell them.
But what we have now is the government leaning on employers to mandate an experimental treatment.

Don't ask, don't tell. My body, my choice.

I decided to get the shot a few months ago. I was against it initially, but after 100m got it, I figured it was a large enough sample size that I wasn't going to drop dead. If I had waited til now, I wouldn't have done it. If someone asks me for my papers, even though I've had the shot I'd refuse to provide my medical information to strangers.

It amazes me how voter ID is racist, yet being asked to travel somewhere get a doctor's opinion. Then travel somewhere else get a shot, then take off work a third time to get a second shot, then possibly take off a fourth day to recover from the shot is not onerous. Especially considering black and brown people are the least vaccinated people in the country.

A few months ago I got into a heated argument with a good friend of mine over the vaccine. He absolutely could not fathom why I was so indifferent about getting the shot and that I actually got the vaccine. He seemed truly convinced that there was a great chance the vaccine I received was eventually going to kill me. I told him I don’t really care that much either way about it and that my wife and mother signed me up for the shot and I didn’t care enough to refuse it. I pointed to the motorcycles in my garage (we were arguing in my garage) and said “if anything is going to kill me statistically speaking it’s going to be one of those damn things, not this damn vaccine.” Thus far the motos have come harrowingly close to succeeding in that endeavor twice, the shot only made me feel like shit for two or three days. He knows my opinion is that this is either an intentional or unintentional leak of a bio weapon or at the bare minimum the nastiest lab made virus ever to leak out into the wild.

Why would my government and pharmaceutical companies conspire to kill me or act so negligent in this hyper litigious society we live in that their drug would cause my death? To the government and big pharmaceutical companies I’m basically a slave or worker bee. Killing me is illogical. They know people are not going to keep getting booster shots year after year just look at the participation rate with the flu shot every year. To my great sadness he was unable to come up with a good rebuttal.

Exclusive: Samples From Early Wuhan COVID Patients Had Genetically Modified Henipah, One of Two Types of Viruses Sent From Canadian Lab

https://www.theepochtimes.com/...KMVDEwhtC2e39%2BU%3D

Samples from early Wuhan COVID-19 patients show the presence of genetically modified Henipah virus, an American scientist has found.

Henipah was one of the two types of viruses sent to China by Chinese-born scientists from a Canadian laboratory at the center of a controversy over the firing of the scientists and collaboration with Chinese military researchers. It is not clear whether the virus found in the Chinese samples is related to the virus samples sent by the Canadian lab, which were shipped in late March 2019.

The finding was confirmed for The Epoch Times by another qualified scientist.

The evidence was first found by Dr. Steven Quay, a Seattle-based physician-scientist and former faculty member at the Stanford University School of Medicine, who looked at early COVID-19 samples uploaded by scientists at the Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV) shortly after China informed the World Health Organization about the SARS-CoV-2 outbreak.

The samples from the patients, who reportedly were found to have the “unknown pneumonia” in December 2019, were uploaded to the genetic sequence database, GenBank, on the website of the U.S. National Institute of Health (NIH).

Quay says that while other scientists around the world were mostly interested in examining the genome of SARS-CoV-2 in the samples uploaded by the WIV scientists, he wanted to see what else was in the samples collected from the patients.

So he collaborated with a few other scientists to analyze sequences from the samples.

“We started fishing inside for weird things,” Quay told The Epoch Times.

What they found, he says, are the results of what could likely be contamination from different experiments in the lab making their way into the samples, as well as evidence of Henipah virus.

“We found genetic manipulation of the Nipah virus, which is more lethal than Ebola.” Nipah is a type of Henipah virus.

The Epoch Times asked Joe Wang, PhD, who formerly spearheaded a vaccine development program for SARS in Canada with one of the world’s leading pharmaceutical companies, to verify the finding. Wang is currently the president of NTD Television Canada, the sister company of The Epoch Times in Canada.

After examining the evidence, Wang said he was able to replicate Quay’s findings on the Henipah virus. He explains that the genetic manipulation of the virus was likely for the purposes of vaccine development.

Documents released by the Canadian government state WIV’s intended use of the virus samples sent by Canada as “stock virus culturing,” which in simpler terms means storage of the viruses while keeping them alive. Genetic manipulation would not be within the scope of this description.

Winnipeg Lab
The firing of Chinese-born scientist Xiangguo Qiu and her husband, Keding Cheng, from the National Microbiology laboratory (NML) in Winnipeg has been the subject of much controversy in Canada, with opposition parties pressing the government for more details on the case, and the government refusing to release information citing national security and privacy concerns.

Qiu and Cheng along with several Chinese students were escorted out of NML, Canada’s only Level 4 lab, in July 2019, amid a police investigation. The two scientists were formally fired in January 2021.

The Public Health Agency of Canada (PHAC), which is in charge of NML, said the termination was the result of an “administrative matter” and “possible breaches of security protocols,” but has declined to provide further details, citing security and privacy concerns.



During her time at NML, Qiu travelled several times in an official capacity to WIV, helping train personnel on Level 4 safety. The Globe and Mail later reported that scientists at NML have been collaborating with Chinese military researchers on deadly pathogens, and that one of the Chinese military researchers worked at the high-security Winnipeg lab for a period of time.

Documents and emails released by PHAC show that the shipment of Henipah and Ebola samples was done with the permission of NML authorities.

In one of the emails sent in September 2018, David Safronetz, chief of special pathogens at PHAC, informs then-head of NML Matthew Gilmour and other lab administrators about the request from WIV for the shipment of the samples, saying “I trust the lab.”

In response, Gilmour asks about the nature of the work that will be done at the Wuhan lab, and why the lab doesn’t get the material from “other, more local labs.” He also tells Safronetz that it’s “good to know that you trust this group,” asking how NML was connected with them.

In his reply, Safronetz doesn’t specifically say what the samples will be used for in China, but notes they will only be sent once all paperwork and certification is completed. He also says the WIV is requesting the material from NML “due to collaboration” with Qiu.

He adds, “Historically, it’s also been easier to obtain material from us as opposed to US labs. I don’t think other, closer labs have the ability to ship these materials.”

Gilmour resigned from his position at NML in May 2020 and joined a UK-based bioresearch company.

MPs have asked NML management why shipment of the samples was allowed and whether they knew if China performs any Gain of Function (GoF) research at WIV. GoF research involves increasing the lethal level (virulence) or transmissibility of pathogens.

NML’s acting scientific director general Guillaume Poliquin told MPs during a parliamentary committee meeting on March 22 that the lab only sent the samples to WIV after receiving assurance that no GoF research would take place.

Conservative MP John Williamson pressed for more answers, saying the word of the state-run Chinese lab can’t be trusted as the Chinese regime “has a history of theft and lies.”

The issue of GoF research at WIV has been a point of contention in the United States between lawmakers and Dr. Anthony Fauci, NIH’s head of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, whose organization has funded research (through EcoHealth Alliance) on coronaviruses at the Wuhan lab. U.S. Sen. Rand Paul says published work from WIV on coronaviruses shows the lab is conducting GoF research, a charge Fauci denies.

The Epoch Times sought comment from PHAC, including as to how the agency addressed issues of intellectual property and the development of any products such as vaccines with WIV, but didn’t hear back by time of publication.

Despite repeated requests by opposition parties for more details related to the firing of the two NML scientists, the Liberal government has refused to provide records, saying there are national security and privacy concerns.

After the House of Commons issued an order for the government to disclose the information, the government took the Speaker of the House to court to obtain confirmation from a judge that it can withhold the documents. The government later dropped its court case once Prime Minister Justin Trudeau called an election and Parliament was dissolved.

Editor’s note: This article was updated to include more information from Canadian government documents.

quote:

Originally posted by stickman428:

Why would my government and pharmaceutical companies conspire to kill me...

Bill Gates among other Great Resetters has suggested depopulation is an answer to many "problems".

If you really wanted to kill off mankind or drastically lower the population why not release a far more infectious and lethal bio weapon or experimental play toy for scientists to accidentally release?

Why not just start a war between the USA and China if you truly believe overpopulation is a problem. These people cannot truly be that stupid. They have traveled and seen as I have how big this world is and how much of it is completely void of any humans.

You can’t accurately predict the civilian casualties in a war like that. It may very well be that the most controllable people that you want to survive such a thing would the first to die.

People obsessed with control aren’t going to introduce any entropy into the situation they’re trying to manipulate.

OK, guys. This is kinda silly.

As I have said before, I work in an Emergency Department as a physician, and have taken care of numerous COVID patients since the outset of the pandemic. This is the source of my anecdotal experience.

Since the vaccine became widely available, we initially saw a marked drop in the number of positive cases, at least until the Delta variant showed up. Clearly, there is the ability for Delta to infect vaccinated people. However, I do not believe that the total number of “breakthrough” infections is very high. Unfortunately, the data that the CDC has been collecting has not included surveillance of vaccinated populations to determine what the rate of a symptomatic infections is in that population, and I believe this is one of many mistakes the CDC has made through the course of the pandemic. Not knowing how many asymptomatic infections there are among the vaccinated hampers proper guidance for people to make a judgement for themselves as to whether or not to take the vaccine. Their general failure to present publicly how little they were sure of during the early days cost them the trust of the general public. They initially said masks were unnecessary, instead of rightly appealing to the population as a whole that they didn’t know, but really needed to save the PPE for hospitals until greater supplies could be made available. The CDC does not trust the public to make a decision on risk benefit analyses.

My experience is this. I have seen hundreds of patient’s with COVID since the beginning. I have been exposed closely to the faces of patients with COVID as I intubated them and put them on ventilators, while wearing a mask (admittedly most of the time with an N95 when they were available. I was wearing the same 7 masks for 8 months, using aa dehydrator at home to disinfect them.). I have never had COVID. I got the Pfizer vaccine as soon as it was available, first shot in December. Since June, we have seen a resurgence of COVID cases in the hospital, to the point that the hospital has now again had to cancel all non-emergent surgeries, and we routinely have 20-40 patients in the ED waiting on beds, which prevents us from seeing patients who present to the lobby. Wait times of 8+ hours are not uncommon, where as previously 2 hours was a long wait on a busy day.

Importantly, I have not seen many vaccinated patients with COVID (honestly, less than 10) and only admitted two of those, one with cancer on chemotherapy, and the other with multiple medical problems to make her high risk. Neither of them required ICU care. Virtually everyone requiring admission to the hospital that we are seeing is unvaccinated. (And on that note, of course people are “unvaccinated” for 2 weeks after their first shot, their immune system hasn’t had time to build up immunity yet after the vaccine dose.).

Yes, this is anecdotal evidence, but it bears out based on the experiences of fellow ED physicians I know across the country. I have not seen anyone with a serious complication from the vaccine, nothing more than flu-like symptoms. No blood clots, no neurological symptoms at all. I know that my immunity in terms of antibodies is waning, but am hopeful that memory B cells stand ready to fight should I get exposed. Unfortunately, we don’t have scientific evidence about that yet. So, as such, I will be getting a booster as soon as it is available. I hope you will consider this in your own decisions. I am really tired, this past 18 months has been an awful time to be in healthcare.

quote:

Originally posted by stickman428:
A few months ago I got into a heated argument with a good friend of mine over the vaccine. He absolutely could not fathom why I was so indifferent about getting the shot and that I actually got the vaccine. He seemed truly convinced that there was a great chance the vaccine I received was eventually going to kill me. I told him I don’t really care that much either way about it and that my wife and mother signed me up for the shot and I didn’t care enough to refuse it. I pointed to the motorcycles in my garage (we were arguing in my garage) and said “if anything is going to kill me statistically speaking it’s going to be one of those damn things, not this damn vaccine.” Thus far the motos have come harrowingly close to succeeding in that endeavor twice, the shot only made me feel like shit for two or three days. He knows my opinion is that this is either an intentional or unintentional leak of a bio weapon or at the bare minimum the nastiest lab made virus ever to leak out into the wild.

Why would my government and pharmaceutical companies conspire to kill me or act so negligent in this hyper litigious society we live in that their drug would cause my death? To the government and big pharmaceutical companies I’m basically a slave or worker bee. Killing me is illogical. They know people are not going to keep getting booster shots year after year just look at the participation rate with the flu shot every year. To my great sadness he was unable to come up with a good rebuttal.

For starters no one is telling you you have to buy and drive a motorcycle or you can’t work here. That is your own free choice to take that risk as it should be. Also you can decide to quit participating in the risk of driving motorcycles at anytime of you’re choosing. Once you get the vaccine there’s no going back it’s a decision you can’t reverse.

As hyper litigious this society is as you point out if the vaccine kills you the manufacturer as well as you’re employer if they forced you into it are immune from any litigation. I imagine Harley Davidson could be held responsible if a manufacturing defect caused you to crash your motorcycle and you were severely injured or were killed.

barndog, thanks very much for taking the time to post that.

I'll take posts like yours, from members of this forum who are medical professionals, over a whole month of CDC bulletins or Fauci ramblings.

Lastmanstanding, why would Israel, one of the nations with one of the best intelligence gathering apparatuses and some absolutely spectacular successes recently have over 80% of its population vaccinated if it truly believed the vaccine could potentially be more dangerous than natural herd immunity? Can Israel potentially afford to lose the majority of its population? If there were an actual true issue with covid vaccines they would be one of the countries I would expect to find it first rather than roll the dice and go along with everyone else.