I for one am tired of hearing that this is all based on science, yet no one has published this science. All the people get ate summaries, most of which is constantly being corrected for being wrong.

You want it shut down, prove to all of us why. Hold a meeting and walk through your science, facts, data and the methodology used to arrive at the decisions.

I'd also like to know what Democrats are invested in the plexiglass industry, holy cow.

and the CDC flips again on transmission guidelines...apparently the ones recently published were just a 'draft'

quote:

Originally posted by nhtagmember:
and the CDC flips again on transmission guidelines...apparently the ones recently published were just a 'draft'

Just like the draft I feel when people try to blow smoke up my ass.

quote:

Originally posted by Rightwire:
You want it shut down, prove to all of us why. Hold a meeting and walk through your science, facts, data and the methodology used to arrive at the decisions.

Nope you peon, just do as you're told. They feel zero need to tell us anything or justify their actions in any way. It's simply insane the number of people who will simply fall in line and obey without asking any questions at all.

esdunbar:

Re: your graph

With the weekly Covid deaths now approaching zero, why aren't the total deaths approaching the previous 6-year average? We're approaching about ~30,000 fewer total deaths.

ETA: Sheesh, I didn't read you post close enough--I was focused on your graph. I now see that we shouldn't be comparing September.

The asshole making the chart ran out of that color of ink

quote:

Originally posted by HRK:
YOu could die of a heart attack and the test says you had COVID, and it gets recorded as COVID related, regardless if COVID had anything to do with the actual cause of your heart attack.

esdunbar's graph should bear this out with the *total* deaths curve. If "they" have been mis-attributing deaths like this, then e.g., the total heart attack deaths will go down from average. The Covid scam will be evident. We'll see where we are with total deaths after a year and see if any bump actually occurred with Covid.

The absolute worse thing about this is that the door has been kicked wide open. All we need is a "health" crisis of some kind and full control is taken and everyone obeys because they're scared out of their minds. And what if a china virus arrived that really could kill 200k or more people? Its likely to happen. We could get shut down until we're back into the stone age. I'm also afraid that we're in the minority because it seems that most Americans seem to love this stupid shit.

^^^^^ That sign needs to be corrected:
Seeing how some people wear masks, I now understand that some contraceptives should never fail.

I was just part of a discussion that really surprised me, and didn't at the same time. The person making this statement is a PhD and a dedicated Democrat....

"I have a friend, who is a intelligent person, believes that the numbers of cases and deaths are exaggerated for political reasons. He believes hospitals report Covid deaths because they get more money."

Sad really as this is a person of power and influence.

quote:

Originally posted by HRK:
Many of the deaths related to COVID were people that were very ill to begin with, and the same people getting H1N1 or the normal flu may have suffered the same fate.

If you've ever seen a death certificate it lists all the complications of your death, if they are related to the death, so you can have several line items listed, COVID being one of them.

YOu could die of a heart attack and the test says you had COVID, and it gets recorded as COVID related, regardless if COVID had anything to do with the actual cause of your heart attack.

That’s what drove me to start watching the total deaths. While cases like you say have clearly occurred, it’s obvious it’s not statistically relevant.

What I’m curious about now, is how do we finish the year. As the graphs clearly show, we are at a point where we typically start increasing our weekly total deaths. If we drop down under the averages, that would indicate that most of the people who died from COVID this spring were going to die this fall anyways. So now we shut down our economy to save very sick folks 6 months?

However, if we stay above average, then we will know that COVID did indeed kill 200k -ish people in all of 2020. Then we have to decide if it was worth it or not. I’m inclined to say it wasn’t worth it, but we have to accept the number is fairly accurate if we don’t drop down below “the curve” for the rest of the year.

What is also clear from the graph is that we are basically back to expected weekly deaths. There is zero reason for anything to be shutdown at all.

I want to see a graph, state by state, showing deaths from all categories and a comparative to the previous year.

If I see a remarkable drop in all other causes inline with a high number of COVId then it tells the story.

If all of the normal categories are close to levels from the previous year, and COVID is above and beyond that, it tells a different story.


That is facts and data.

Well there’s no way to know if the lockdowns saved a single person, not to mention any increase in suicide as a result of the economic devastation.

It’s a Rorschach test, if you want to read the tea leaves to confirm it was worth it, you’ll see that evidence and vice-versa.

tell me how many died FROM Covid and how many died WITH Covid.

right now the CDC said 9200 people died exclusively from Covid...thats the important number in my mind.

all the lockdowns, hand washing, hand wringing, face shields, masks, social distancing, barriers, reduced seating, putting people out of business and destroying lives - for 9200

thats what I'm taking away from all this.

quote:

Originally posted by Rightwire:
I want to see a graph, state by state, showing deaths from all categories and a comparative to the previous year.

That is facts and data.

Hell no, I want to see it city by city, wait, actually street by street since the thinner we decide to slice something the more statistically valid it is. That's facts and data.

Oh, no it's not.

quote:

right now the CDC said 9200 people died exclusively from Covid...thats the important number in my mind.

Could someone please tell me exactly what "exclusively with COVID" means? It's a virus that causes you to die from the peripheral effects of it, but perhaps from other immediate causes.

For example I don't think anybody dies "exclusively from the flu". You get the flu, then die from pneumonia, heart failure, falling down the stairs due to dehydration, etc.

quote:

Originally posted by nhtagmember:
right now the CDC said 9200 people died exclusively from Covid...thats the important number in my mind.

You can't even rely on that figure. We 'know' there have been documented cases of deaths across the country that were mis-classified as Covid that were not. The reality here is that none of the data can be relied on as accurate. There's been so many mistakes, screw ups, and dishonesty, that I no longer believe any of the 'statistics', regardless where they come from.

quote:

Originally posted by Rightwire:
I want to see a graph, state by state, showing deaths from all categories and a comparative to the previous year.

If I see a remarkable drop in all other causes inline with a high number of COVId then it tells the story.

If all of the normal categories are close to levels from the previous year, and COVID is above and beyond that, it tells a different story.

That is facts and data.

Did you see the graph I posted on the previous page? That's for all of America; total deaths. There is no doubt at all that the total deaths are way up this year and you can see it.

In fact, on the national level, the non-COVID deaths are abnormally high too. If anything, that would lead me to believe that COVID deaths are actually under reported. I.e., there are not lower "non-COVID" deaths this year.

Also, if I remember correctly, wasn’t the US government paying hospitals additional money for treating covid patients, along with state/city governments getting assistance based on number of cases?

If so, then right there is a big reason for numbers being skewed.

quote:

Originally posted by Georgeair:...

Could someone please tell me exactly what "exclusively with COVID" means? ...

Most folks that die from the flu do so from complications, most of the time it is bacterial pneumonia and the weakened immune system, from the flu's effects. Often treatment with anti-biotics can help with bacterial pneumonia.

The SARS-Cov-2 ('rona) causes viral pneumonia, and anti-biotics do not do much for viral component of that pneumonia, although there is some assist to tempering the immune system that can help with the body's response and not leading to over reaction (that creates more fluid in the lungs).

In folks affected without the issue of co-morbid issues, and mostly affected with the viral pneumonia end up with either a "cytokine storm" (immune "over" response) and/or secondary and lower lung pneumonia, that often hits hard once a person's immune system has been reduced by the 'rona and the initial pneumonia.

And that is the reason some people get the crap, get better and then take a nosedive and end up in a smoking crater.

That was how it was explained to me by the doctor I saw.

He had dealt with pulmonary disease/COPD, lung cancers, and such as well as the nurse that were involved with me.

They said that most of the deaths were people with obesity, diabetes, COPD type issues and otherwise poor health, or the folks up in the late 70s and beyond. (who are also likely to go downhill with any serious illness, like a bad cold, flu and such).


So, "COVID EXCLUSIVE" is mainly viral pneumonia. But even those are going to be higher incident due to age and ability to fight off pneumonia. (Hence, the lower than 10k numbers). The "200k" is hype. Follow the money and control over the populace.

That is my takeaway from the discussion.