quote:

Originally posted by sdy:
https://thehill.com/homenews/a...et-the-cure-be-worse

President Trump is suggesting he might lift restrictions intended to prevent the spread of coronavirus if the economic pain from the measures becomes too great, tweeting that "we cannot let the cure be worse than the problem itself.

“WE CANNOT LET THE CURE BE WORSE THAN THE PROBLEM ITSELF,” Trump said in a late night tweet. “AT THE END OF THE 15 DAY PERIOD, WE WILL MAKE A DECISION AS TO WHICH WAY WE WANT TO GO!”

That’s good to hear. In reality, I think we can handle another 10-14 days of this without creating too much economic pain. I also think we should see some meaningful results from different drugs by then. I think we should continue on the road we are for that 10-14 days as I think that will be the best long term compromise between ameliorating public health concerns, reducing perceived health concerns and minimizing long term structural damage to the economy. In looking at the data it appears that the curve with respect to new cases IS flattening which is a good thing. Additionally the overall number of cases curve is becoming more linear, if not already no longer exponential. All in all, I think we are on the right track, AND if Trump shows a good balance between public health and economic concerns and things start to recover economically then the economy should be well underway to recovery by November which should strongly support his re-election.

quote:

Originally posted by Lt CHEG: That’s good to hear. In reality, I think we can handle another 10-14 days of this without creating too much economic pain. I also think we should see some meaningful results from different drugs by then. I think we should continue on the road we are for that 10-14 days as I think that will be the best long term compromise between ameliorating public health concerns, reducing perceived health concerns and minimizing long term structural damage to the economy. In looking at the data it appears that the curve with respect to new cases IS flattening which is a good thing. Additionally the overall number of cases curve is becoming more linear, if not already no longer exponential. All in all, I think we are on the right track, AND if Trump shows a good balance between public health and economic concerns and things start to recover economically then the economy should be well underway to recovery by November which should strongly support his re-election.

I gotta differ with you on that. We’re not even in lockdown in Georgia and there are already businesses here that have closed, permanently. Another 2 weeks of this and there is no predicting exactly what the long term effects will be on the economy. I think your view is way too rosy.

quote:

Originally posted by PowerSurge:

quote:

Originally posted by Lt CHEG: That’s good to hear. In reality, I think we can handle another 10-14 days of this without creating too much economic pain. I also think we should see some meaningful results from different drugs by then. I think we should continue on the road we are for that 10-14 days as I think that will be the best long term compromise between ameliorating public health concerns, reducing perceived health concerns and minimizing long term structural damage to the economy. In looking at the data it appears that the curve with respect to new cases IS flattening which is a good thing. Additionally the overall number of cases curve is becoming more linear, if not already no longer exponential. All in all, I think we are on the right track, AND if Trump shows a good balance between public health and economic concerns and things start to recover economically then the economy should be well underway to recovery by November which should strongly support his re-election.

I gotta differ with you on that. We’re not even in lockdown in Georgia and there are already businesses here that have closed, permanently. Another 2 weeks of this and there is no predicting exactly what the long term effects will be on the economy. I think your view is way too rosy.

Yes, this needs to end immediately.

quote:

Originally posted by Lt CHEG:
I think we can handle another 10-14 days of this without creating too much economic pain.

I hope you are right. I pray you are correct. I tend to believe the other side of the equation.

Another 14 days and all commerce will stop. Those of you who think you can work home, sorry, but those jobs will go away. If you are not involved in an essential business; medical, 1st responder, grocery, or something related to an essential business, your job will dissappear.

I have seen the effect in Orlando already. Hotels are locking their doors. Car rentals are down 90%. And on and on.

And it's not just tourism. My friend is the senior attorney in Orlando for a multi-state law firm. He said last week that the phone calls stopped. Not slowed, stopped. He said they are fine for the time being with work in the system, but they will need the pipeline to open back up and get full again.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: holdem,

quote:

Originally posted by PowerSurge:

quote:

Originally posted by Lt CHEG: That’s good to hear. In reality, I think we can handle another 10-14 days of this without creating too much economic pain. I also think we should see some meaningful results from different drugs by then. I think we should continue on the road we are for that 10-14 days as I think that will be the best long term compromise between ameliorating public health concerns, reducing perceived health concerns and minimizing long term structural damage to the economy. In looking at the data it appears that the curve with respect to new cases IS flattening which is a good thing. Additionally the overall number of cases curve is becoming more linear, if not already no longer exponential. All in all, I think we are on the right track, AND if Trump shows a good balance between public health and economic concerns and things start to recover economically then the economy should be well underway to recovery by November which should strongly support his re-election.

I gotta differ with you on that. We’re not even in lockdown in Georgia and there are already businesses here that have closed, permanently. Another 2 weeks of this and there is no predicting exactly what the long term effects will be on the economy. I think your view is way too rosy.

Fair enough, but I would argue that a business permanently closing after only a week of the restrictions might not have been on the best footing and may have been destined for going out of business anyway. Further, the long term damage from letting the virus gain a strong enough foothold to overcome our health care system might be considerably more damaging. Lastly, I think that there was no way around some damage to the economy. This was a natural disaster, no different than an earthquake or hurricane so some pain was going to happen.

While I do believe that the media has way overhyped and overblown what is going on, I can say, unequivocally, that this virus is causing serious issues and is not “just a cold” in all the people that contract it. This virus could not just be ignored without paying any attention to it. I have been in emergency response as both a volunteer firefighter and a police officer (both a local cop and currently as a fed) for over 20 years. I can tell you based upon what I have seen and what colleagues are experiencing first hand that the complications that can arise from this virus are occurring often enough and the complications are serious enough that health care operations ARE being significantly impacted. In reality this is a pandemic that is much more serious in densely populated cities, however even if it only affected such cities the effects of Covid-19 would still be felt nationwide.

So in a nutshell, the point I was trying to make is that economic impacts were coming no matter what was done. I feel confident that the response thus far, at least by the President, has been the best balance which will result in the least long term damage, but not none at all. The idea of not experiencing any economic pain at all is an impossible fantasy.

quote:

Originally posted by PowerSurge:
We’re not even in lockdown in Georgia and there are already businesses here that have closed, permanently.

Not downplaying the potential of this effect over time if this continues but isn't it a little dramatic to suggest that a business has closed "permanently" after having shut the doors for a week or even two? Indefinitely perhaps, likely impacted in efforts to restart but permanently? I bet a few have but they are the exception and most small or midsized business will bounce back if we can get our hands around this shortly.

quote:

Originally posted by Lt CHEG:

You should read about how South Korea quarantined all the folks who were likely to be severly affected, (elderly, underlying conditions, etc) and let everyone else go about their business. There's a link a page or two back. It seems to have have had little effect on their economy and yet very effective in containing the virus and minimizing the deaths.

Just like a day or two wasn't enough time to be sure the apparent dip in new cases a few days ago was the start of a slowdown in spread, a day or two now isn't enough time to be sure there ISN'T a slowdown, but the numbers from yesterday are back on the rapid spread curve.





(graphics from worldometers.info )

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:

quote:

Originally posted by Lt CHEG:

You should read about how South Korea quarantined all the folks with who were likely to be severly affected, (elderly, underlying conditions, etc) and let everyone else go about their business. There's a link a page or two back. It seems to have have had little effect on their economy and yet very effective in containing the virus and minimizing the deaths.

The part that's missing from this narrative is the S. Korean government also cautioned citizens to avoid unnecessary social interaction. By the accounts I've read, people took it to heart, and the spread was thereby more limited. Americans, much like the Italians, haven't been as cooperative. The other part that's missing is S. Korea was also able to ramp-up testing a good deal faster than we've been able to do.

quote:

Originally posted by maladat:
Just like a day or two wasn't enough time to be sure the apparent dip in new cases a few days ago was the start of a slowdown in spread, a day or two now isn't enough time to be sure there ISN'T a slowdown, but the numbers from yesterday are back on the rapid spread curve.





(graphics from worldometers.info )

Couldn't possibly be due to increased testing, could it?

Obviously we will see a climb in numbers with increased testing. But it's important to understand that only a small percentage of patients who are only showing mild symptoms get tested. AFAIK most testing is reserved for more serious cases as well as medical staff. Testing has not evolved to the point where everyone who feels they need (want) a test are going to get it. When that happens we'll see a HUGE increase in numbers. I feel that most of what we are seeing now is more attributable to the natural progression of the virus and most who are tested are the more severe cases.

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:

The part that's missing from this narrative is the S. Korean government also cautioned citizens to avoid unnecessary social interaction. By the accounts I've read, people took it to heart, and the spread was thereby more limited. Americans, much like the Italians, haven't been as cooperative. The other part that's missing is S. Korea was also able to ramp-up testing a good deal faster than we've been able to do.

When were we (the healthy, younger folks that will most likely survive without intervention) given a chance to limit our social interactions? How have we not been cooperative? In Florida on March 13th, an extra week was added to spring break. The rest of the draconian measures happened within the next week.

I agree on the testing point. I'm hoping the 15 days to slow the spread plan is buying time to ramp up testing and figure out where the problem areas are so that the rest of us can go on about our business. We have 3 cases in my county and 1 of those should be in the recovered category as it was first reported 18 days ago.

Michigan is under a stay at home order starting at 00:01 on 24 March 2020 for a minimum of 3 weeks.

Little bit of humor for the day (maybe NSFW)

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Couldn't possibly be due to increased testing, could it?
 

Obviously with more testing comes more confirmed cases. The deaths are not increasing due to more testing. They still don't even have enough test kits to test the ill yet.

quote:

Originally posted by oddball:
Little bit of humor for the day (maybe NSFW)

oddball, its been posted but I'm still glad you put it here. Not everything corona related needs its' own thread.
https://sigforum.com/eve/forums...0601935/m/3110048764

From the Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security email update 3-23-20 0936 pacific - excerpts:

CHLOROQUINE POISONING The drug chloroquine, currently being investigated as a potential treatment for COVID-19, resulted in multiple overdose deaths in Nigeria. In the short period after the drug was touted by US President Donald Trump, prices reportedly skyrocketed by more than 400% in some locations due to increased demand, despite a dearth of evidence indicating that it is effective against COVID-19. Over the weekend, Nigeria reported several deaths due to “chloroquine poisoning." In response, Lagos State Health Commissioner Akin Abayoi published a video via the Lagos State Ministry of Health Twitter account warning against the unlicensed use of chloroquine and emphasizing that it has yet to demonstrate efficacy against COVID-19, and Nigeria’s Minister of Health Osagie Ehanire echoed the need for additional data in a statement posted on the Nigeria Ministry of Health website.

GERMAN CHANCELLOR IN QUARANTINE German Chancellor Angela Merkel is undergoing voluntary quarantine after one of her physicians recently tested positive for SARS-CoV-2. Reportedly, the doctor administered a vaccination to Chancellor Merkel on Friday and then tested positive. At an address yesterday, Chancellor Merkel announced that Germany will implement further restrictions in order to curb the spread of COVID-19. The biggest changes include closing non-essential businesses and restricting gatherings of more than 2 people, excluding families.

DECONTAMINATING RESPIRATORS The University of Nebraska Medical Center (UNMC) published its internal procedures for utilizing ultraviolet germicidal irradiation (UVGI) to decontaminate N95 respirators. UNMC developed the procedures as a way to extend its inventory of N95 respirators during the COVID-19 response. Based on existing research illustrating both the effectiveness of UVGI on inactivating viruses (including other coronaviruses and on N95 respirators) and the minimal impact of the irradiation on the performance of the respirators, UNMC is implementing this program for high-demand areas of the hospital (e.g., emergency department and COVID-19 ward) and aims to expand it more broadly. Programs like this could potentially mitigate the burden of continued respirator use on existing health system inventory/stockpiles resulting from the COVID-19 response while production companies increase supply in the coming weeks and months. Separately, the Department of Health and Human Services is finalizing guidance to hospitals intended to inform operations while supplies of personal protective equipment, such as masks and respirators, are limited.

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quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:
When were we (the healthy, younger folks that will most likely survive without intervention) given a chance to limit our social interactions? How have we not been cooperative?

I don't know about where you are, but, here in Michigan the governor, state and county health officials, etc., as well as the federal government, have been urging people to limit social interaction ever since this thing reared its head.

Our governor held off on implementing shelter in-place in hopes people would voluntarily comply. In her address this morning she noted (paraphrasing): "Unfortunately, residents have continued engaging in unnecessary social interaction." One presumes she had evidence to support that assertion. Of course ICBW.

Hell, up until the end of last week I guess I was as guilty as any. I went out to a shooting range both last Wednesday and the Friday before. Went to my gym both on the 10th and the 11th. While I was exceedingly careful during each excursion, including employing thorough disinfection protocols directly upon returning to my vehicle and again when arriving home, they still didn't qualify as "necessary." Particularly the range trips.

And, even then, if the majority of the public conscientiously employed even a fraction of the disinfection protocols my wife and I have on our recent excursions, a good deal of this, if not most of it, would be unnecessary. But they don't. When I went on my last small fueling and shopping expedition I saw not one individual other than myself wearing gloves. Not a one. I saw not one individual using hand sanitizer or disinfectant wipes when they returned to their cars as I was walking through parking lots. Not one after they finished fueling at the gas station at which I stopped. Few of the members at my gym wiped-down thoroughly after finishing with equipment. I was clothed head-to-foot, including full-fingered gloves, and wiped-down equipment even so.

quote:

Originally posted by Rightwire:
Michigan is under a stay at home order starting at 00:01 on 24 March 2020 for a minimum of 3 weeks.

Already noted twelve posts back from yours: https://sigforum.com/eve/forums...020029764#8020029764

I will gladly go on record as one of several members here who are skeptical about all this data on the Wuhan China Flu. I know I keep harping on the 60,000,000 cases of Swine Flu in the U.S. during the 1-year period between 2009/2010. This source https://www.livescience.com/co...ic-vs-swine-flu.html states the CDC estimated 60.8 million cases (60,800,000) during that approximate 365 day period.

If we do simple math, that equates to 166,575 new cases per day. Right now, the U.S. has realized 40,500 TOTAL cases; approx. 494 cases per day as of 1-JAN...WELL below the daily average with the Swine Flu some 10 years ago. In terms of deaths, there are 473 recorded deaths as of yesterday, which was the 82nd day of the year. That rate equates to 5.76 deaths per day assuming this all started 1-JAN of this year. Ten years ago, the Swine Flu killed 12,500 people in a 365 day period, equating to 34 deaths per day.

Each death is a TRAGEDY and I am absolutely thankful to God my creator that my family, friends, and I, and my invisible friends here on SIGforum are all OK and well prepared. But does anyone start to see why I personally am not too wound up about this and quite frankly, VERY skeptical as to all this panic and hysteria? To be honest, I don’t even REMEMBER the Swine Flu some ten years ago. I can tell you I was flying on average 17 days per month, I can tell you I was stuck in a tube with up to 54 other people on average 4 times per day, and I can tell you there was ZERO evidence of this MASS HYESTERIA to hoard toilet paper, other paper products, and ammo. Well…I guess to be fair there WAS a great deal of ammo hoarding taking place. But that was due to the Crimson Kenyan at that time.

So I just don’t get it. There’s nothing in the numbers thus far that makes me think this will be ANY worse than the Swine Flu of 2009/2010 (if it even REACHES that level), and WE survived it without even knowing it was more than a mere blip on the radar. Those in the health care sector might have had more of a clue, but I can GUARANTEE the masses didn’t know bupkis and didn’t give one stinkin’ hoot about wearing masks, “Social Distancing” (GMAFB ), and hand washing.

This country has allowed itself to get DUPED and its economy has been devastated over NOTHING. I do cautiously state, however, I hope I’m not proven wrong…

God Bless us all!!

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:

The part that's missing from this narrative is the S. Korean government also cautioned citizens to avoid unnecessary social interaction. By the accounts I've read, people took it to heart, and the spread was thereby more limited. Americans, much like the Italians, haven't been as cooperative. The other part that's missing is S. Korea was also able to ramp-up testing a good deal faster than we've been able to do.

When were we (the healthy, younger folks that will most likely survive without intervention) given a chance to limit our social interactions? How have we not been cooperative? In Florida on March 13th, an extra week was added to spring break. The rest of the draconian measures happened within the next week.

I agree on the testing point. I'm hoping the 15 days to slow the spread plan is buying time to ramp up testing and figure out where the problem areas are so that the rest of us can go on about our business. We have 3 cases in my county and 1 of those should be in the recovered category as it was first reported 18 days ago.

Near 40% of hospitalizations are age 20-54.