This situation will be self evident one way or the other shortly.

quote:

Originally posted by PowerSurge:
^^^^. One could also make the argument that this shelter in place bullshit is just drawing out the spread of the virus.

It's probably what saved Wuhan, what's left of it.

what i meant to post:

quote:

Originally posted by PowerSurge:
^^^^. One could also make the argument that this shelter in place bullshit is just drawing out the spread of the virus.

Well yes, that is the stated intent.

Pulicords,
Very well spoken and I hope this sentiment is picked up/shared by many. Only have a slight correction, we’re not fighting a microbe, which is a bacterium.

quote:

Originally posted by SigSentry:

quote:

Originally posted by Sig209:
the synopsis is : a virus came and we got scared and went home and hid

we need TARGETED efforts --

Yah, we need to control the spread until we can apply targeted measures.

Yup. Can't apply targeted measures until you can identify your target.

What do you do should you suddenly, unexpectedly find yourself under fire? You take cover, then access your options.

We're still in the taking cover part.

Michigan's Gov. Whitmer, on whether Michigan will order a state-wide "shelter in place" directive (paraphrasing): "If Michigan's residents do their part, following CDC guidelines, we don't currently believe that will be necessary. We are constantly re-assessing."

I know what the “intent” is. I’m talking about the damage to the economy that could be exacerbated. They say the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

There’s a lot of very bad things that can happen with extended periods of very high unemployment due to their actions. And that’s all I’m going to say.

....

Well doesn’t look like Illinois is in lock down....yet. Stay at home order instead. So it appears I can still go to my work as usual. If they are allowing restaurants to stay open (implied because they said that we can have restaurant deliveries still) then surely I can go to work at a data center which is tied directly to the federal reserve. At least that’s the story I’m going with, and I’m sticking to it.

quote:

Originally posted by Patriot:

As a higher risk person...I do not relish the idea of raising my risk so you can go about your day.

This is not so we can go about our day. It is about so much more.

First, let's look at the people that have already been affected; airline workers, hotel workers, anyone in the service industry. Some of these people are already going hungry. On Wednesday evening the news in Orlando reported on a local food bank. They reported how on Tuesday, March 17th, they served three times the amount of people that they would in a normal day. 3 times! And that was 3 days ago.

The next wave are the self employed, like myself, or people like Skins, an electrician, or maybe someone in oil and gas. We have taken a hit, but we can live off savings, cut back, and hold out for a while.

The next wave are people who have currently experienced no economic fallout. Maybe they are in IT? Maybe they are in a manufacturing facility in a state that has not been affected? Those jobs will dry up, because it all trickles down.

The economy will not just re-start. There has already been too much money sucked out of it and consumer confidence is shattered.

And lastly, since this is SigForum, and nearly everyone is right of center (maybe all of us), what about our freedoms? How many freedoms are we losing each day? Heck, each hour? My county now has a curfew to be enforced by the Sheriff. How long before they ask for guns like the did during Katrina?

I do not want to be confined to my house, while I still have one. I do not want my children to go hungry. I do not want to see The Great Depression, 21st Century edition. And if we do not get off this path, we will be there before anyone realizes it.

I do not believe this virus is a hoax. I understand what the doctors say. I am well versed in math, I understand the exponential models. I understand the fatality rate. I understand this can be bad and can overwhelm the healthcare system. I understand it will kill people.

At some point, a trade off has to be made. I will not pretend to be smart enough or educated enough to know or guess exactly when that is, but that point has to come.

quote:

Originally posted by Dakor:
Pulicords,
Very well spoken and I hope this sentiment is picked up/shared by many. Only have a slight correction, we’re not fighting a microbe, which is a bacterium.

Although interestingly, another historical analogy, is once the Cholera epidemic subsided, the city put the pump handle back on the Broad Street pump, without significantly changing anything else. Somewhere a lesson to be learned in there....

Ya know with the Chinese doing their best to screw the world thru non notification of the bug to begin with. And not letting the world in until it was too late to help stop it. I think every cent we have/will have lost, should come off of our payments on what we borrowed from these jerks. Some great new US owned pharmacies with cut-rate meds comes to mind from the savings.

Could this trigger a "Conventional War" with China.

The thought seems crazy, but these days...

quote:

Originally posted by Doc H.:
I'll use a SIG analogy, since this is SIGforum.  You're standing on the trail, your .40 S&W P229 on your hip (yeah, I'd have picked something else in grizzly country too).  Around the next bend, a large grizzly appears.  Could be a male, could be a female, could be a mad momma guarding cubs, could be a big yearling out for a stroll.  You can't tell.  It sees you, and starts a moderate shamble toward you.  Not particularly threatening, not particularly fast, and it doesn't look particularly mad.  But close, and getting closer. What you don't know, is that it just attacked and killed, and partially ate a couple of hikers further down the trail.  Or maybe it didn't. 


You could jump up and down and yell, and maybe confuse it, and then take off down the trail to your Jeep, close by, and you might make it.  Or it might turn or take off, and nobody gets hurt.  You know if you shoot it, you might just piss it off, .40 S&W being what it is and all, and it will rip your legs off before it eats you, too.  Or you might be able to empty a magazine in its head and kill it (you're a pretty good shot), or at least mightily discourage it so it doesn't rip your legs off and just gives you a swat in passing.  You only have a few seconds, and only time for one option.


As your spirit rises above the trees and looks down at your mangled corpse being consumed, you fleetingly think, "If I had only made the other choice...."

Many pandemics have come along in recent times - Avian flu, swine flu, SARS, etc. They all killed thousands. Yet, this is the first time we have seen this kind of response. No one was clamoring for the nuclear option back then, and no one that I'm aware of has looked back in hindsight at the thousands of deaths and said "If only we had made a different choice."

Is this going to be the new normal for any new virus? How long will the country survive if we flip the off switch on the economy every few years?

quote:

Originally posted by PowerSurge:
I know what the “intent” is. I’m talking about the damage to the economy that could be exacerbated. They say the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

There’s a lot of very bad things that can happen with extended periods of very high unemployment due to their actions. And that’s all I’m going to say.

The economy will recover, dead people don't.

quote:

Originally posted by PowerSurge:
https://mises.org/power-market...conomy-because-virus

quote:

If it is indeed true that American hospitals are soon to be overwhelmed by virus patients, it is not a recommendation for more central planning, enforced by redirecting scant law enforcement resources to enforcing martial law.

It is a damning indictment of just how socialist—and hence sclerotic, rigid, and brittle—our healthcare industry has been forced to become under the degree of socialized medicine that we already have. We are not fully socialist yet. Hence, we are not Cuba yet.

To put it bluntly, bullshit.

Hospitals and our healthcare system operate with just a little bit of excess capacity because to do otherwise is to incur a lot of extra expense with no offsetting revenue (you know... capitalism).

If a huge surge in demand occurs in a very short amount of time, capitalism can't magically make more hospitals and doctors and nurses and medical supplies appear instantly. Neither can anything else.

quote:

Is this going to be the new normal for any new virus?

Only if the president is named Donald Trump.

quote:

Originally posted by ChicagoSigMan:

quote:

Originally posted by Doc H.:
I'll use a SIG analogy, since this is SIGforum.  You're standing on the trail, your .40 S&W P229 on your hip (yeah, I'd have picked something else in grizzly country too).  Around the next bend, a large grizzly appears.  Could be a male, could be a female, could be a mad momma guarding cubs, could be a big yearling out for a stroll.  You can't tell.  It sees you, and starts a moderate shamble toward you.  Not particularly threatening, not particularly fast, and it doesn't look particularly mad.  But close, and getting closer. What you don't know, is that it just attacked and killed, and partially ate a couple of hikers further down the trail.  Or maybe it didn't. 


You could jump up and down and yell, and maybe confuse it, and then take off down the trail to your Jeep, close by, and you might make it.  Or it might turn or take off, and nobody gets hurt.  You know if you shoot it, you might just piss it off, .40 S&W being what it is and all, and it will rip your legs off before it eats you, too.  Or you might be able to empty a magazine in its head and kill it (you're a pretty good shot), or at least mightily discourage it so it doesn't rip your legs off and just gives you a swat in passing.  You only have a few seconds, and only time for one option.


As your spirit rises above the trees and looks down at your mangled corpse being consumed, you fleetingly think, "If I had only made the other choice...."

Many pandemics have come along in recent times - Avian flu, swine flu, SARS, etc. They all killed thousands. Yet, this is the first time we have seen this kind of response. No one was clamoring for the nuclear option back then, and no one that I'm aware of has looked back in hindsight at the thousands of deaths and said "If only we had made a different choice."

Is this going to be the new normal for any new virus? How long will the country survive if we flip the off switch on the economy every few years?

You'll notice I didn't describe which choice you made.... I would point out that all of those events are in the past. We know how it worked out. From an economic standpoint, deaths vs economy, you could argue "good choice." Except from the standpoint of those who died, who may even have agreed from the standpoint of public good, although their survivors might object. But I can pretty much guarantee that any citizen of 14th century London in retrospect would say "Shut the harbors down, profit be damned!" It's all a matter of perspective. And I can tell you with some authority that no one knows where this virus will end up. Probably like most recent pandemics historically. Probably. Right now that's a bet. And obviously, not a bet that most countries are willing to make right now, including the US

quote:

Originally posted by was0311:

quote:

Originally posted by PowerSurge:
I know what the “intent” is. I’m talking about the damage to the economy that could be exacerbated. They say the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

There’s a lot of very bad things that can happen with extended periods of very high unemployment due to their actions. And that’s all I’m going to say.

The economy will recover, dead people don't.

True. But more Americans might die from suicide or dying because of a lack of being able to afford healthcare after losing health coverage due to being unemployed than because of da virus.

Nobody gets out of here alive.

I wish some people would learn how to quote.

quote:

Originally posted by 6guns:

quote:

Originally posted by ChicagoSigMan:
Is this going to be the new normal for any new virus?

Only if the president is name Donald Trump.

Ah, it's Trump's fault. I knew it!