quote:

Originally posted by bald1:

quote:

Originally posted by Ronin1069:

What's frustrating to read in this thread is some of the membership here is in absolute denial that this is anything serious.

I've seen numerous "outbreaks" over the years such as SARS, H1N1, Bird Flu, Legionnaires, Ebola, Swine Flu, etc. and never was there this maniacal hysteria and panic inciting bullshit behavior from the MSM and left as we're seeing now.

Prime example: mortality for the current influenza is 1/10 of a percent, 1% for Covid19. So the MSM screams that Covid19 is TEN times more deadly than flu which is flat out sensationalizing the facts.

Yes, any illness that can cause death is serious. But some perspective is needed.

I'm convinced that the hysteria and panic is aimed at hurting President Trump and the 2020 elections. Look at the stock market and all the closings impact on the economy. Color me very very pissed.

Some of that is certainly true. However, consider that Italy didn't shut their entire country down to own Trump. This whole situation is no joke.

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
The hysteria cancelled the NBA.

Looks like hysteria rolls downhill. The SEC, Big 10, and Big 12 just cancelled their respective Men's basketball tournaments. The next ACC tourney game starts in 10 minutes and no one, including the teams it seems, knows if the game will occur. It's bizarre.

ETA: The ACC just cancelled the rest of the tournament.

quote:

Originally posted by arfmel:

quote:

Originally posted by Fenris:
Does a clothes dryer gets hot enough to kill C-19 on fabrics like hats and jackets?

Hoping...

Boiling water (212*) “kills” viruses. I don’t think a home clothes dryer gets hot enough to do the cabrona virus any harm.

Electric clothes dryers have thermal cutoffs ~350, with a ~180 turnon this is at the heating element, so actual heat at clothes will be less. But the inlet air is still somwhere between 150 and 300 degrees. I would think 30-40 minutes at this temperature would do the job.

quote:

Originally posted by cheesegrits:

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
The hysteria cancelled the NBA.

Looks like hysteria rolls downhill. The SEC, Big 10, and Big 12 just cancelled their respective Men's basketball tournaments. The next ACC tourney game starts in 10 minutes and no one, including the teams it seems, knows if the game will occur. It's bizarre.

ETA: The ACC just cancelled the rest of the tournament.

Indeed.

Maybe they should all stay in and watch “Invasion USA”. There are a lot of similarity’s there.

Wait, will that cause a run on Chuck Norris”?

quote:

Originally posted by cheesegrits:
It's bizarre.

I couldn't agree more. I hope that once coronavirus leaves the daily collective memory and then people think sometime after that- months from now- about how they behaved during this manufactured crisis, that the ones who panicked are ashamed of themselves. Maybe a few of those people will learn something in their retrospection; not many, though, I suspect.

The human race is nowhere near as sophisticated as it considers itself to be.

After the next true extinction event, I hope that whatever takes Man's predominant position on this planet is not comparable to a race of violent apes. Maybe the dolphins and the whales will take over.

I'm not scared but I'm vigilant on what's going on.
A hospital here in Warren reported a case yesterday and I know a security guard and nurse from the hospital. They said some of the people went crazy and left yesterday.
I went grocery shopping last night and saw a few people wearing masks. That's fine. I'm not a doctor so I'm not going to tell you what to do or what not to do. Shelves still had some water and toilet paper. I grabbed a 6 pack of tp because I needed it and it's been almost 2 months since I bought any. Just me at home.
Daughter I have in college called me and told me the university is shut down now. Online classes only. I can see a college dorm building being a hot bed for infections. She decided she's going to see her mother in Salt Lake City for a while.
I wash my hands frequently but I've always done that. I own a USDA inspected meat plant so it's nothing for me. The quatenary ammonia soap does dry your skin so it's always rough in the Winter.
Do I worry about catching it? Kinda since I'm 52 and in that age group that it can be fatal. Flu can be fatal to me too probably. I still go out with my friends and see live bands every weekend. Should I not? Possible but then I could get paranoid and just sit at home and that's not me.
So I'll be careful where I can.
As for media hype, this is why I don't own a TV. Are they stirring the pot creating a frenzy? Possibly as I've heard some friends talking about all they see on some news stations is coronavirus. It did work around here to a point as I've heard about the local Wal-Mart being out of tp and water. There again, not my job or business to tell anyone not to hoard. I would imagine that stores will put a limit on what an individual can buy in the near future. I remember the ammunition hoarding and limits being set.
So I'll ride it out just like everything else that's happened.

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
But, a look around shows a bunch of people in a panic that seemingly have bought into the hype.

Ok, I don't see anybody here on SF panicking. If you have, please point them out. What I see is some, like me, exercising more caution.

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
The hysteria cancelled the NBA. No one, or very few were going to show up anyways. ... As much as I dislike the NBA, it was a safe business decision to close it. Now, they have no overhead to further cost them money.

My guess is that's the real reason they cancelled the season. Their claiming it was to protect the players and fans is virtue-signalling.

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
Now comes the “people not taking this seriously” hysteria. No one disagrees that during a bad flu season that at risk people shouldn’t take precautions to limit exposure. But, the same precautions you take to limit your exposure from the flu is the same precautions for corona.

Except many, maybe even most, don't.

When I was still employed it was common for cow-workers to come to work so deathly ill they could barely stand, while I saw few, if any, take any precautions against infection.

As I noted in a previous post: One of my best friends has regular get-togethers. In about as many cases as not there'll be a family member show up sick, or bringing their obviously sick child(ren).

When I work out in my gym during influenza season I wear what I jokingly refer to as my "workout envirohazard suit": Rather than shorts, a tee and fingerless gloves: Long pants, long-sleeved shirt and full-finger gloves. As such: I tend not to wipe-down machines because no part of my skin touches them. But I see plenty of people wearing shorts, tees and no gloves at all not wipe-down after using equipment. This despite the fact the club has both sent out email and posted, asking members to be extra vigilant. (Thus I've been wiping-down even though it's probably unnecessary in my case.)

My belief is this is being "hyped" to the extent it is to try to drive home to such people that this one is more dangerous than the common influenza.

And it is that to which I believe Ronin1069 refers: From all evidence seen so far it is more dangerous. It persists on surfaces longer, it's more contagious, and it's more deadly--at least to those over 60 and/or with compromised health. These are facts, not media hype.

quote:

Originally posted by bald1:

quote:

Originally posted by Ronin1069:

What's frustrating to read in this thread is some of the membership here is in absolute denial that this is anything serious.

I've seen numerous "outbreaks" over the years such as SARS, H1N1, Bird Flu, Legionnaires, Ebola, Swine Flu, etc. and never was there this maniacal hysteria and panic inciting bullshit behavior from the MSM and left as we're seeing now.

Prime example: mortality for the current influenza is 1/10 of a percent, 1% for Covid19. So the MSM screams that Covid19 is TEN times more deadly than flu which is flat out sensationalizing the facts.

Yes, any illness that can cause death is serious. But some perspective is needed.

I'm convinced that the hysteria and panic is aimed at hurting President Trump and the 2020 elections. Look at the stock market and all the closings impact on the economy. Color me very very pissed.

So "10 times more deadly than the flu" is perhaps correct if that references the chances of transmission. It may well be, but in my opinion unknown right now; it probably is transmitted more easily than influenza A or B. If it references the morbidity rate (which it does, just based on diagnosed cases), other factors come into play.

With estimates of the percentage of a given population that is, or will be, infected, that range up to 70% (and that more than likely is correct), and given the time elapsed since the first case that actually occurred in China (probably at least 6 months, possibly more), and given the rate of transmission that we can reasonably estimate from other countries, the likelihood that at least 50% of the population of China is currently infected becomes high. With a population of 1.5B, that would indicate 750 million Chinese are infected, right now, a not improbable number, particularly considering the concentration of their population in urban centers. Current COVID-19 related deaths in China are slightly above 3,000. Using that "data," which for lack of anything better is as accurate as any, the morbidity rate becomes .0004%. Say it's ten times off as an underestimate. The rate becomes .004%. A hundred times becomes .04%. Such is the power of data.

quote:

Originally posted by cheesegrits:

quote:

Originally posted by jljones:
The hysteria cancelled the NBA.

Looks like hysteria rolls downhill. The SEC, Big 10, and Big 12 just cancelled their respective Men's basketball tournaments. The next ACC tourney game starts in 10 minutes and no one, including the teams it seems, knows if the game will occur. It's bizarre.

ETA: The ACC just cancelled the rest of the tournament.

Can MLB be far behind?

The sad thing is this over reaction will become the norm for future situations, because as the weather warms the virus tends to wane, and, if it's not as huge a problem as anticipated, the results of it not being as bad will be interpreted as result of decisions to end sporting events and gatherings, thus it will be seen as a valid decision.

I give the insanity 2 to 3 more weeks before people stop panicking and decide to go back to life as normal.

When people look around and see that all their neighbors are still alive and nobody in their family has died, people will realize this overreaction is all extreme.

As time goes by and there's nobody wheeling a cary down the street yelling "BRING OUT YOUR DEAD!!!" I think the panic will wane. The words "coronavirus" and "COVID-19" will reach their saturation point in people's daily lives and people will start to ignore it.

In the meantime, this event can highlight inconvenient truths to the masses:
-The media capitalizes off panic
-Democrats will exploit any crisis at ANY cost
-An entire generation will be educated on proper hygiene and disease prevention
-The borders need to be secured
-We need to cut our dependence on goods and medications from China
-We need to eliminate China as a major trade partner
-Democrats are enemies of this country
-The US needs to have a certain percentage of manufacturing in all industries HERE!


Just my 2 cents.

Tony.

A good friend of mine is head of Internal Medicine at the largest hospital group in our area and is an extreme liberal so I decided to call him this morning and see what his take was on the situation.

Surprisingly, he thought it was a dramatic over reaction.... As we have heard if you are elderly and/or have other imunocomprimised conditions then you need to be careful.

I asked about supplies and how the hospital group was preparing and he said they had plenty of masks and other PPE. I then asked him about the potential need for bed space should the virus spread as under normal circumstances it is sometimes difficult to get a bed. He told me that they have postponed all unnecessary surgery and we’re sending patients home ASAP so they are prepared. He also said that by next week all the clinics associated with the hospital will have test kits at their offices and will be conducting test there to free up the hospital’s resources.

Overall I was encouraged by his comments.

quote:

Originally posted by benny6:
I give the insanity 2 to 3 more weeks before people stop panicking and decide to go back to life as normal.

When people look around and see that all their neighbors are still alive and nobody in their family has died, people will realize this overreaction is all extreme.

As time goes by and there's nobody wheeling a cary down the street yelling "BRING OUT YOUR DEAD!!!" I think the panic will wane. The words "coronavirus" and "COVID-19" will reach their saturation point in people's daily lives and people will start to ignore it.

In the meantime, this event can highlight inconvenient truths to the masses:
-The media capitalizes off panic
-Democrats will exploit any crisis at ANY cost
-An entire generation will be educated on proper hygiene and disease prevention
-The borders need to be secured
-We need to cut our dependence on goods and medications from China
-We need to eliminate China as a major trade partner
-Democrats are enemies of this country
-The US needs to have a certain percentage of manufacturing in all industries HERE!


Just my 2 cents.

Tony.

I think it will take longer than that. I think over the course of the next two weeks "new cases" in the US will skyrocket as we get more and more test kits. That will drive hysteria for a bit longer imo. Maybe 2 months we're back to normal, but i don't think 2 weeks.

quote:

Originally posted by tatortodd:
Good data snd thanks for posting.

thanks for replying. i was not clear enough, to not fill up the thread with more "expert" opinions. i have none.

not dying is not the same as getting sick, or very sick or even hospital care. i was going to post another graph of symptom severity distribution per age group. my point was simply, kids get everyone sick. making them stay home with an ICU nurse of a mom...or dad who is a pulmonologist may have adverse affects. teenage kids heading to malls and other places to u know spray germs, also seems to have the potential of unintended consequences. the disruptions caused by the whole process to slow the spread does not exude confidence. (like the "hey america, just tele-work")

while those over 40 may need hospital care, and those over 60 may need even more care. it seems we have enough data to make some calls. nursing home, and medicare "focused" medical facilities all over the country are prime places to "lock" down. screen those staff etc.

i will digress, i am clearly an idiot who refuses to agree 100% with everyone yelling..wait i mean explaining my ignorance.

thanks again for politely explaining the pitfalls in my short blurb on this ever expanding thread. you made good points.

I did a quick check on some of the news sites to see how often the word coronavirus appears on their home pages.

• Fox news 86 times
  
• CNN 33 times
  
• MSNBC 69 times
  
• NBC news 41 times
  
• CBS news 43 times
  
• Drudge 6 times
  
• ABC news 29 times
  
• Lucianne 21 times
  
• CDC.gov 3 times
  
• BBC 25 times
  
• telegraph.co.uk 22 times
  
• Dailymail.co.uk 65 times
  

MarketWatch: Busting Myths of COVID-19

Is coronavirus airborne? Will it live in my bathroom? Is it OK to fly or eat out? Are men more susceptible? Busting myths and confirming facts of COVID-19

Conspirancy theorists be damned.

There are some outlandish rumors about COVID-19 percolating on the internet: Coronavirus is a dastardly bioweapon designed to wreak economic armageddon on the West. It’s a left-wing conspiracy to damage the reelection prospects of President Trump. It’s a Chinese conspiracy: COVID-19, the disease caused by coronavirus SARS-CoV-2, originated in a laboratory in Wuhan.

Such paranoid speculation is at the very least unhelpful, health professionals say, and only serves to politicize a global public-health emergency and distract from potentially life-saving measures to contain and/or slow down the spread of coronavirus. After jumping from animals to humans at a food market in Wuhan, China in early December, it has already reached 100 countries.

Conspiracy theories politicize a public-health emergency and distract from potentially life-saving measures.
As the world struggles to come to terms with the prospect of COVID-19 changing the way we socialize and work, people are left wondering whether the financial markets have had a massive overreaction to yet another virus that will eventually fizzle out, or whether it’s time to buckle down and heed warnings of the disease’s seriousness issued by governments and health authorities.

This article breaks down the facts and fiction of the global pandemic:

Is coronavirus airborne like measles?
The jury is out. As of Thusday, it did not appear to be an airborne virus in the same vein as measles or chickenpox, said Luis Ostrosky, professor and vice chairman of internal medicine at McGovern Medical School in Houston, Texas. “It’s a virus that travels in droplets. This is very good news. With an airborne virus, one person could infect the whole room.”

Now for the bad news. Airborne transmission is “plausible,” according to a study — that has not been peer reviewed — posted online this week from scientists at Princeton University, the University of California, Los Angeles and the National Institutes of Health posted online Wednesday concluded that the virus could remain airborne for “up to 3 hours post aerosolization.”

In the meantime, officials recommend “social distancing” in public spaces. “You would need to touch contaminated secretions to become infected, or to be within six feet of a sick person who is coughing or sneezing,” Ostrosky said. “Studies have looked at how far spit and little droplets fly, and that’s the magic number.” Meeting in outdoor spaces, in theory, give the virus less chance to spread.

How long can it live in your bathroom?
“It’s not certain how long the virus that causes Coronavirus survives on surfaces, but it seems to behave like other coronaviruses,” the World Health Organization said. “Studies suggest that coronaviruses — including preliminary information on the COVID-19 virus — may persist on surfaces for a few hours or up to several days.” Higher temperatures, based on earlier coronaviruses, are likely to degrade it.

Its life span will also vary, depending on the type of surface, temperature and/or humidity. Bathrooms are a welcoming environment for coronaviruses. “Previous coronaviruses can remain viable in cold, moist surfaces up to nine days,” Ostrosky said. So if you are sharing a home with someone who has coronavirus, he strongly advises against sharing the same bathroom.

Recommended:Italians struggle to adjust to the New Normal amid nationwide coronavirus lockdown


President Trump speaks in an address to the nation from the Oval Office at the White House on Wednesday. He announced a suspension in travel from Europe to the U.S. Associated Press
Will recirculated air on a plane make me sick?
In-flight oxygen is probably higher quality than the air in your home. “If you have an infected person in the front of the plane,and you’re in the back of the plane, your risk is close to zero simply because the area of exposure is thought to be roughly six feet from the infected person,” according to Charles Chiu, professor of laboratory medicine at University of California, San Francisco.

“Ventilation rates provide a total change of air 20 to 30 times per hour,” WHO says. “Most modern aircraft have recirculation systems, which recycle up to 50% of cabin air. The recirculated air is usually passed through HEPA (high-efficiency particulate air) filters, of the type used in hospital operating theatres and intensive care units, which trap dust particles, bacteria, fungi and viruses.”

President Trump said Wednesday he was “marshaling the full power of the federal government” by suspending travel from Europe to the U.S. for 30 days from midnight Friday. The restrictions won’t apply to the U.K. “We made a lifesaving move with early action on China. Now we must take the same action with Europe.” That’s aimed at stopping sick people traveling and spreading COVID-19.

Also see:U.S. State Department warns passengers NOT to go on cruises — says there’s ‘increased risk of infection’ on cruise ships

Are men more affected by this than women?
“Men do tend to be more affected than women and their symptoms are often more severe,” Ostrosky said. “Estrogen has a protective effect. When scientists block estrogen production in animals, they become more susceptible to coronaviruses and they get worse symptoms. But please don’t take estrogen injections or pills. If you are a man, they will not help you.”

Does difference exist with influenza? “No, with the flu it’s pretty even,” he added. They have similar symptoms, including a sore throat and coughing, but they have other characteristics that set them apart. Coronavirus is a type of virus common in humans and animals, and causes mild-to-moderate respiratory illnesses. But it can travel through your body and damage other organs.

Do face masks guard against coronavirus?
Face masks help prevent patients from spreading the virus, but they don’t protect the healthy, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said. They can help act as a barrier if a sick person coughs or sneezes. “Most face masks do not effectively filter small particles from the air and don’t prevent leakage around the edge of the mask when the user inhales,” the CDC added.

What’s more, face masks are needed for health services. N95 masks are tighter-fitting than surgical masks and protect against small particles and large droplets, according to the CDC. Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar said that there are only 30 million N95 masks in the national stockpile, and “as many as 300 million masks are needed in the U.S. for health-care workers.”

Should I cancel my movie and dinner date?
Whether you’re on a plane or a train, you are at risk of contracting coronavirus, especially if you are seated near an infected person who coughs or sneezes and/or you touch a contaminated surface and then your face without properly washing your hands. WHO said there’s no difference between sitting in a restaurant, office or movie theater. If you’re near an infected person, you’re at risk.

While you can’t do much about being seated next to an infected passenger on a plane at 30,000 feet, you can exercise responsible “social distancing,” Ostrosky said. “The more people who are in that enclosed space with you, the higher the risk you have of being exposed to someone who is sick,” he added. “If we had to rank them, there is an increased risk in larger groups.”

Wasn’t coronavirus already a pandemic?
Not technically. On Wednesday, WHO declared COVID-19 a global pandemic. An outbreak is deemed to have be a pandemic when it has spread from human-to-human on several continents, while an epidemic is a disease that infects regions or a community over a large geographical area. “We’re deeply concerned,” WHO head Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus told reporters.

But wasn’t coronavirus already a pandemic, given that it had reached 100 countries? Not quite. There’s a subjectivity involved in designating an epidemic a pandemic, and epidemiologists finally agreed that the efforts to contain the virus have failed. In other words, it’s now a matter of containing the spread and slowing it down to give scientists time to work on a vaccine.

Worldwide, there were 127,863 COVID-19 cases and 4,718 deaths as of Thursday morning; about 68,310 people have recovered, according to data published by the Johns Hopkins Whiting School of Engineering’s Center for Systems Science and Engineering. The U.S. has 1,312 confirmed cases, and has recorded 38 deaths from the novel coronavirus.

How COVID-19 is transmitted

If anyone here is inclined toward digging into the science and putting it into perspective, here’s a link to a guy in England who is both a mathematician and epidemiologist at the London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine.

I found out about him while searching for possible timelines on safe vacation travel dates, and he seemed to have more concrete and daily updated information on the changes in the reproduction number, rate of spread, and doubling time of the virus.

The first link is to his Twitter account, and the second is the daily update he co-authors with about a dozen other people in the field.

https://mobile.twitter.com/adamjkucharski

https://cmmid.github.io/topics...ng-transmission.html

I just wish the moron element would STOP HOARDING TOILET PAPER! There's no need for this foolishness. We're getting low on paper and would like to buy our standard amount of ONE bundle of the standard Costco fare....if they could ever get it back on the shelves. I'd almost like to ambush a hoarder in the parking lot and set their basket of paper on fire, just to vent a little.

quote:

Originally posted by arfmel:

quote:

Originally posted by Fenris:
Does a clothes dryer gets hot enough to kill C-19 on fabrics like hats and jackets?

Hoping...

Boiling water (212*) “kills” viruses. I don’t think a home clothes dryer gets hot enough to do the cabrona virus any harm.

If you needed to kill on contact, yes boiling water would be a good choice. Otherwise about 30 minutes in the dryer at the highest heat setting should kill any microbe.

You could even do a fair amount of damage with a hair blow dryer, if you hold it long enough.

quote:

Originally posted by Sigmanic:
I just wish the moron element would STOP HOARDING TOILET PAPER! There's no need for this foolishness. We're getting low on paper and would like to buy our standard amount of ONE bundle of the standard Costco fare....if they could ever get it back on the shelves. I'd almost like to ambush a hoarder in the parking lot and set their basket of paper on fire, just to vent a little.

Just order a bidet off Amazon, there are inexpensive basic units up to super expensive preheated seat, warm water with air dryer units. Whatever your anus desires!

Eliminate TP, this could be a boon for bidet sales worldwide and reduce the attack on the environment by the TP hoarders...