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When will the coronavirus arrive in the US? (Disease: COVID-19; Virus: SARS-CoV-2) Login/Join 
Member
Picture of PowerSurge
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by 6guns:
quote:
Is this going to be the new normal for any new virus?


Only if the president is name Donald Trump.

DA VIRUS!! ITS TRUMPS FAULT!!

Educate yourself, please.


———————————————
The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Psalm 14:1
 
Posts: 4049 | Location: Northeast Georgia | Registered: November 18, 2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Partial dichotomy
posted Hide Post
quote:
Educate yourself, please.


Was that directed to me?




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Posts: 39486 | Location: SC Lowcountry/Cape Cod | Registered: November 22, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of PowerSurge
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by maladat:
quote:


quote:
If it is indeed true that American hospitals are soon to be overwhelmed by virus patients, it is not a recommendation for more central planning, enforced by redirecting scant law enforcement resources to enforcing martial law.

It is a damning indictment of just how socialist—and hence sclerotic, rigid, and brittle—our healthcare industry has been forced to become under the degree of socialized medicine that we already have. We are not fully socialist yet. Hence, we are not Cuba yet.


To put it bluntly, bullshit.

Hospitals and our healthcare system operate with just a little bit of excess capacity because to do otherwise is to incur a lot of extra expense with no offsetting revenue (you know... capitalism).

If a huge surge in demand occurs in a very short amount of time, capitalism can't magically make more hospitals and doctors and nurses and medical supplies appear instantly. Neither can anything else.


There isn’t much left of healthcare that isn’t socialized. It’s much, much closer to socialism than it is to capitalism. If we had a healthcare system based on capitalism there would be a higher surplus of capacity and our healthcare system would be quicker to adapt to surges in patients.


———————————————
The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Psalm 14:1
 
Posts: 4049 | Location: Northeast Georgia | Registered: November 18, 2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of PowerSurge
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by 6guns:
quote:
Educate yourself, please.


Was that directed to me?

If you think this mess is Trump’s fault, absolutely.


———————————————
The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Psalm 14:1
 
Posts: 4049 | Location: Northeast Georgia | Registered: November 18, 2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Nullus Anxietas
Picture of ensigmatic
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by PowerSurge:
If you think this mess is Trump’s fault, absolutely.

I think he's blaming Trump "only" for the shutdown mania.



"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system,,,, but too early to shoot the bastards." -- Claire Wolfe
"If we let things terrify us, life will not be worth living." -- Seneca the Younger, Roman Stoic philosopher
 
Posts: 26031 | Location: S.E. Michigan | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of maladat
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quote:
Originally posted by ChicagoSigMan:
Many pandemics have come along in recent times - Avian flu, swine flu, SARS, etc. They all killed thousands.


Avian flu has a very high mortality rate but is rare and not very transmissible between humans. From February 2013 to June 2019, there were 1568 confirmed cases in humans with 616 deaths. http://www.fao.org/ag/againfo/...date_2019_06_05.html

Swine flu is extremely transmissible, but if anything, less deadly even than seasonal flu. In 2009, about 60 million Americans contracted swine flu and about 12,000 died. This is somewhat more cases and somewhat fewer deaths than a typical seasonal flu. https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandem...9-h1n1-pandemic.html

During the 2003 outbreak, worldwide, there were 8,098 confirmed cases of SARS with 774 deaths. There were eight confirmed cases in the US, all imported (no confirmed community spread in the US). https://www.cdc.gov/sars/about/fs-sars.html

To summarize: avian flu doesn't spread through human populations, swine flu isn't very deadly, and SARS was contained early.

COVID-19 obviously spreads through human populations and hasn't been contained. Current data suggests it is much more deadly (and, equally concerning, results in many more hospitalizations) than swine flu.
 
Posts: 6320 | Location: CA | Registered: January 24, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Nullus Anxietas
Picture of ensigmatic
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by maladat:
COVID-19 obviously spreads through human populations and hasn't been contained. Current data suggests it is much more deadly (and, equally concerning, results in many more hospitalizations) than swine flu.

People keep comparing SARS-CoV-2/Covid-19 to this and that other thing, pointing out "that wasn't such a big deal, so...?" And others of us keep pointing out that, based on current data, it's not like that other thing, and here's why.

Yet people keep asking "that other thing wasn't such a big deal, so...?"

Some or much of what's being done to contain this thing may or may not be overreaction. Some or much of what's being done may or may not be worse than what might have occurred had we not done these things. That's open to debate, and we might really never know the answers, for sure. But comparing this pandemic to others is a false equivalence.



"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system,,,, but too early to shoot the bastards." -- Claire Wolfe
"If we let things terrify us, life will not be worth living." -- Seneca the Younger, Roman Stoic philosopher
 
Posts: 26031 | Location: S.E. Michigan | Registered: January 06, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of maladat
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by PowerSurge:
quote:
Originally posted by maladat:
quote:


quote:
If it is indeed true that American hospitals are soon to be overwhelmed by virus patients, it is not a recommendation for more central planning, enforced by redirecting scant law enforcement resources to enforcing martial law.

It is a damning indictment of just how socialist—and hence sclerotic, rigid, and brittle—our healthcare industry has been forced to become under the degree of socialized medicine that we already have. We are not fully socialist yet. Hence, we are not Cuba yet.


To put it bluntly, bullshit.

Hospitals and our healthcare system operate with just a little bit of excess capacity because to do otherwise is to incur a lot of extra expense with no offsetting revenue (you know... capitalism).

If a huge surge in demand occurs in a very short amount of time, capitalism can't magically make more hospitals and doctors and nurses and medical supplies appear instantly. Neither can anything else.


There isn’t much left of healthcare that isn’t socialized. It’s much, much closer to socialism than it is to capitalism. If we had a healthcare system based on capitalism there would be a higher surplus of capacity and our healthcare system would be quicker to adapt to surges in patients.


In what possible world do a bunch of empty hospital rooms that cost money to maintain, full of unused equipment that cost money to buy, that don't generate any revenue the vast majority of the time, make ANY sense from a pure bottom-line how-much-money-can-I-make-running-this-hospital point of view?
 
Posts: 6320 | Location: CA | Registered: January 24, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of PowerSurge
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by maladat:
quote:
Originally posted by PowerSurge:
There isn’t much left of healthcare that isn’t socialized. It’s much, much closer to socialism than it is to capitalism. If we had a healthcare system based on capitalism there would be a higher surplus of capacity and our healthcare system would be quicker to adapt to surges in patients.


In what possible world do a bunch of empty hospital rooms that cost money to maintain, full of unused equipment that cost money to buy, that don't generate any revenue the vast majority of the time, make ANY sense from a pure bottom-line how-much-money-can-I-make-running-this-hospital point of view?


I didn’t say anything about a “bunch” of empty hospital rooms. All of the hospitals around here are at capacity during normal times. The one 10 miles away even regularly has overflow in the ER and patient rooms. That was before da virus scare.


———————————————
The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Psalm 14:1
 
Posts: 4049 | Location: Northeast Georgia | Registered: November 18, 2017Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Now in Florida
Picture of ChicagoSigMan
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by maladat:
quote:
Originally posted by ChicagoSigMan:
Many pandemics have come along in recent times - Avian flu, swine flu, SARS, etc. They all killed thousands.


Avian flu has a very high mortality rate but is rare and not very transmissible between humans. From February 2013 to June 2019, there were 1568 confirmed cases in humans with 616 deaths. http://www.fao.org/ag/againfo/...date_2019_06_05.html

Swine flu is extremely transmissible, but if anything, less deadly even than seasonal flu. In 2009, about 60 million Americans contracted swine flu and about 12,000 died. This is somewhat more cases and somewhat fewer deaths than a typical seasonal flu. https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandem...9-h1n1-pandemic.html

During the 2003 outbreak, worldwide, there were 8,098 confirmed cases of SARS with 774 deaths. There were eight confirmed cases in the US, all imported (no confirmed community spread in the US). https://www.cdc.gov/sars/about/fs-sars.html

To summarize: avian flu doesn't spread through human populations, swine flu isn't very deadly, and SARS was contained early.

COVID-19 obviously spreads through human populations and hasn't been contained. Current data suggests it is much more deadly (and, equally concerning, results in many more hospitalizations) than swine flu.


Your giving stats in hindsight. No one knew at the beginnings of these outbreaks how severe or deadly they would be. The early numbers on swine flu were actually quite alarming.
 
Posts: 6084 | Location: FL | Registered: March 09, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of Prefontaine
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by PowerSurge:
quote:
Originally posted by Patriot:
quote:
Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:
Frankly, this crap needs to end tomorrow.


I’m in the no camp on this...

This flu is ravaging and kills in days. Left unchecked, the pace at which it would overtake us would be decimating.

It that were the case all the people that have tested positive would be dead. Most people have no symptoms or mild symptoms and then are fine.

Settle down.


No emotion, don't want to debate. 3 dead here so far. Virus is spreading every day. Good news local we had 4 positives today make a full recovery. That's great news. If everyone can hold it together we'll see positive news soon.



What am I doing? I'm talking to an empty telephone
 
Posts: 13135 | Location: Down South | Registered: January 16, 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of was0311
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by PowerSurge:
quote:
Originally posted by maladat:
quote:
Originally posted by PowerSurge:
There isn’t much left of healthcare that isn’t socialized. It’s much, much closer to socialism than it is to capitalism. If we had a healthcare system based on capitalism there would be a higher surplus of capacity and our healthcare system would be quicker to adapt to surges in patients.


In what possible world do a bunch of empty hospital rooms that cost money to maintain, full of unused equipment that cost money to buy, that don't generate any revenue the vast majority of the time, make ANY sense from a pure bottom-line how-much-money-can-I-make-running-this-hospital point of view?


I didn’t say anything about a “bunch” of empty hospital rooms. All of the hospitals around here are at capacity during normal times. The one 10 miles away even regularly has overflow in the ER and patient rooms. That was before da virus scare.


The only beds many maintain for surge are a result of federal dollars. It analogous to grain subsidies. The would not be a higher capacity without that.
 
Posts: 2654 | Location: Eastern NE | Registered: July 12, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Now in Florida
Picture of ChicagoSigMan
posted Hide Post
Time for a little humor?

 
Posts: 6084 | Location: FL | Registered: March 09, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Something wild
is loose
Picture of Doc H.
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by ChicagoSigMan:
Time for a little humor?



Spent a week in the Kitchen and it was great - good food, entertainment, beautiful sunsets - highly recommended!



"And gentlemen in England now abed, shall think themselves accursed they were not here, and hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks that fought with us upon Saint Crispin's Day"
 
Posts: 2746 | Location: The Shire | Registered: October 22, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Partial dichotomy
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by PowerSurge:
quote:
Originally posted by 6guns:
quote:
Educate yourself, please.


Was that directed to me?

If you think this mess is Trump’s fault, absolutely.


Read the post I quoted from and think again. And I think I've been around here long enough voicing my opinions that you should know better.




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Posts: 39486 | Location: SC Lowcountry/Cape Cod | Registered: November 22, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Partial dichotomy
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by ensigmatic:
quote:
Originally posted by PowerSurge:
If you think this mess is Trump’s fault, absolutely.

I think he's blaming Trump "only" for the shutdown mania.


I don't blame President Trump for anything. I consider the best president we've ever had....in my lifetime anyway. I'm saying the leftists would create this mania again if President Trump were president. Period!




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Posts: 39486 | Location: SC Lowcountry/Cape Cod | Registered: November 22, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Tinker Sailor Soldier Pie
Picture of Balzé Halzé
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by 6guns:
quote:
Originally posted by ensigmatic:
quote:
Originally posted by PowerSurge:
If you think this mess is Trump’s fault, absolutely.

I think he's blaming Trump "only" for the shutdown mania.


I don't blame President Trump for anything. I consider the best president we've ever had....in my lifetime anyway. I'm staying the leftists would create this mania again if President Trump were president. Period!


Exactly.


~Alan

Acta Non Verba
NRA Life Member (Patron)
God, Family, Guns, Country

Men will fight and die to protect women... because women protect everything else. ~Andrew Klavan

 
Posts: 31166 | Location: Elv. 7,000 feet, Utah | Registered: October 29, 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of maladat
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by PowerSurge:
quote:
Originally posted by maladat:
quote:
Originally posted by PowerSurge:
There isn’t much left of healthcare that isn’t socialized. It’s much, much closer to socialism than it is to capitalism. If we had a healthcare system based on capitalism there would be a higher surplus of capacity and our healthcare system would be quicker to adapt to surges in patients.


In what possible world do a bunch of empty hospital rooms that cost money to maintain, full of unused equipment that cost money to buy, that don't generate any revenue the vast majority of the time, make ANY sense from a pure bottom-line how-much-money-can-I-make-running-this-hospital point of view?


I didn’t say anything about a “bunch” of empty hospital rooms. All of the hospitals around here are at capacity during normal times. The one 10 miles away even regularly has overflow in the ER and patient rooms. That was before da virus scare.


Hospital bed occupancy rates in the United States average around 65%.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/hus/2017/089.pdf

ICU bed occupancy rates are a few percent higher.

https://www.sccm.org/Communica...ical-Care-Statistics
 
Posts: 6320 | Location: CA | Registered: January 24, 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Seeker of Clarity
Picture of r0gue
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by ensigmatic:
What do you do should you suddenly, unexpectedly find yourself under fire? You take cover, then access your options.

We're still in the taking cover part.


A very good description.




 
Posts: 11468 | Registered: August 02, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:


Your giving stats in hindsight. No one knew at the beginnings of these outbreaks how severe or deadly they would be. The early numbers on swine flu were actually quite alarming.


So bear with me for a moment. No that we DO know how severe and deadly it can be, why are so many people fighting the steps the doctors are telling us that are needed to stop it?
 
Posts: 514 | Registered: November 13, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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