And that is the best reason that the citizens of Israel should absolutely demand that they have every right to have the means to protect themselves no matter what.
Being disarmed by their own government puts them at the mercy of their attackers.
Would you rather have the means to defend yourself, your family, your neighbors or take your chance once you are kidnapped if by some chance you were not murdered first.

And as we know. This is not some far fetched what if scenario.

The Israeli's absolutely could of thwarted much of the carnage that happened to them had they had the ability to defend themselves.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: old rugged cross,

quote:

Originally posted by old rugged cross:
The Israeli's absolutely could of thwarted much of the carnage that happened to then had they had the ability to defend themselves.

Had Israeli citizens been armed the same way most of the citizens here in the US are armed this most likely would have never taken place. Hamas are cowards they never would have crossed the border knowing they would have been met instantly by armed citizens. They would have been happy to continue with lobbing firecrackers over the border from a safe distance. If we are ever stripped of our guns and rights to own them we will suffer a similar fate.

Those in Israel who sought to disarm Israelis knowing such a threat lived next door also have some responsibility in aiding the effectiveness of Hamas’s attack.

Never again is empty words if you cannot adequately protect yourself with firearms. This is not a hard thing to figure out.

Those that lean left like to believe that it’s the government’s job and that they can and will somehow protect them from attacks such as this; the same mentality exists in the US from leftards that have never directly experienced the trauma and pain of such monstrous horror as occurred on 10/6. They have forgotten all about the attack on us in 2001- and that came without the aid of the globalist enablers.

What they don’t realize is that horror is most certainly going to touch them eventually, especially as a direct result of the people they helped put in power. Millions of undocumented invaders most certainly include numerous radicalized terrorists. The terrorists know that leftist enclaves are the least protected areas in the country. Horror is coming; all we can do is be mentally and physically prepared to meet them when it happens.

https://www.breitbart.com/midd...orker-in-cold-blood/

Video was released Sunday via Telegram purportedly showing Hamas terrorists murdering Tanzanian farm worker, Joshua Mollel, 21, during the October 7 terror attack in Israel.

It is unclear why the video was only released now, though Mollel’s death was only confirmed last week. Previously, he had been thought to be among the hostages taken by Hamas to Gaza.

The video, which was released by the Telegram channel South First Responders, which is considered credible, includes two clips. One shows Mollel being surrounded and restrained by angry Hamas terrorists, who shout at him in Arabic. The other shows him lying on a roadside, with a stab wound in his chest, as a Hamas gunman stands astride him and fires shot after shot into his body. A voice is heard shouting, “Allahu akbar!” (“God is great”), a slogan that often accompanies Hamas terrorists during their attacks.

The videos are too graphic to be republished.

As Breitbart News reported last week, Mollel was a farm worker at Kibbutz Nahal Oz, one of the agricultural communities near Gaza that was attacked by Hamas. The kibbutz announced that he had been abducted and then murdered by the terrorists.


I watched the video. We have seen worse here on the forum. Just chose not to link to it

The details of hostages killed by IDF are bad

The Israel Defense Forces (IDF) revealed Saturday after an inquiry that the three hostages who were mistakenly killed on Friday were shirtless, waving white flags, and calling in Hebrew, and were shot by soldiers who thought they were being lured into a trap.

The hostages had emerged at 10:00 a.m. One of the soldiers who saw them shouted “Terrorists!” upon seeing them. The soldiers opened fire — against protocol, which forbids firing on someone with a white flag. They killed two, and wounded the third, who ran into a building and continued shouting for help in Hebrew. A battalion commander ordered them to stop firing, but they kept on shooting, killing him. At no point did any of the soldiers, including the commander, imagine that the three could be hostages.

In addition, soldiers had found graffiti earlier in the week on a building that read “SOS – three hostages” in Hebrew. They believed the building to be booby-trapped, as many other buildings have been, as Hamas has tried to lure IDF soldiers into ambushes. The IDF had not encountered any civilians in the area in a long time; all of the unarmed men in the area of Shejaiya, in the northern Gaza Strip, had been Hamas operatives. The possibility of hostages emerging into the open simply had never been considered.

It is not yet known whether the hostages were abandoned by their captors, or whether they managed to escape in recent days.

The soldiers who fired on the hostages are reported to be receiving psychological counseling, according to the Times of Israel.

https://www.breitbart.com/midd...ges-deaths-revealed/

quote:

Originally posted by sdy:
A voice is heard shouting, “Allahu akbar!” (“God is great”),

Is there anyone on the face of the earth who, by now, does not know what that disgusting phrase means?

Why must these people continue to "translate" it for us? Geez!

quote:

Originally posted by Gustofer:

quote:

Originally posted by sdy:
A voice is heard shouting, “Allahu akbar!” (“God is great”),

Is there anyone on the face of the earth who, by now, does not know what that disgusting phrase means?

Why must these people continue to "translate" it for us? Geez!

The implication isn't simply that "God is great". It really means "Allah (our God) is greater (than your God)".

quote:

Originally posted by Fenris:
<snip>
The implication isn't simply that "God is great". It really means "Allah (our God) is greater (than your God)".

There is only one god. I thought Muhammadins agreed on that.

quote:

Originally posted by sdy:
The details of hostages killed by IDF are bad...

Yes, as much as can be realized in the reporting, this was most unfortunate and should not have happened as it did.

Not giving a pass, only providing some context for how this was shaped.

Just 2 days prior, IDF were ambushed, and 4 killed, than 5 more killed and more wounded responding to assist and extricate the first squad.

No doubt, anyone having seen any of the close quarters engagements can see how such an event can be realized to occur.

These guys have been fighting like this for 10 weeks, and that stress tempo is nearly off the charts. Realize the troops when they were bivouacked and then engaged have been exposed to 24x7 bombing, artillery, motor fire, small arms fire and all of that affects the mind and dissociative state is difficult to control.

I don't imply they are zombies, but one's perceptions and clarity are diminished, (yes, some people become more keen), some worse than others, but all are affected.

The "pauses" for the week resulted in HAMAS laying ambushes, explosives, traps, and gaining advantage by exploiting the time and cover of no overflights by the IAF or drones, and establishing corridors and permitting movement of the people in GAZA.

I lay the blame on HAMAS. They started it, otherwise no IDF soldier would be pointing a weapon at an Israeli half naked in a battlefield.

So, more dead Israeli's, grieving family, friends and nation. Soldiers who will carry guilt and shame for life, and the vermin that bring it, rejoice.

Israel needs to be left to fight this war without interference, doing so will make matters worse, not better.

In spite of the reports of Israel's dealings in this war, they have and do hold a higher moral ground in their execution of the war, and I will argue better than anyone else in the matter and circumstance.

"Netanyahu: We are at war. Israel attacked by Hamas."

The Arabic word translated as “al” is usually the definite article meaning “the” and what is sometimes translated as “lah” is “God.” Therefore the actual literal translation of Allah is “the God.”

It’s generally accepted that a formal tenet of Islam is that Jews and Christians worship the same God as they do, but don’t believe and practice all the other correct things. A major objection Muhammad had to Christianity was the idea that God could have a son or that there could be another being (i.e., the Holy Spirit) that was coequal with him. That ignores all the “one God, three persons” concept, but that is of course confusing for many people. According to at least some authorities Muhammad also thought that the Christian Trinity consisted of God, Jesus, and Mary, so his thoughts on the subject were far from clear.

In practice, of course, many (most? all?) Muslims actually consider Jews and Christians to be unbelievers regardless of all that. The Qur’an is somewhat confusing and contradictory about the question, as it is about other things as well.

quote:

Originally posted by Fenris:...
The implication isn't simply that "God is great". It really means "Allah (our God) is greater (than your God)".

No. It simply means that "God" is greater than "anything".

In Hebrew, the name that G-d revealed to Moses, is "translated" as "I AM", but the greater understanding is "I Will Be Whatever I need be, as you have need of me". So, very much the same understanding of "the Nature" of G-d.

That being the case, how anyone person presents their actions and behaviors, does not reflect upon G-d, for we cannot image ourselves over His Image.

We are the mirror, not Him. We can either reflect Him correctly as non-corrupt mirror, or we can reflect Him in distortion and/or obscured by impurity of the mirror.

We do not define G-d, G-d "Is", we simply can reflect Him. That "reflection" can be crystal clear, or hidden like a mirror in a trash heap.

Neither change that being reflected, only what is perceived.

part 1 of 2

https://www.wsj.com/world/midd...bf8?mod=hp_lead_pos1



Israeli Military Reveals Tunnel It Says Hamas Built for Large-Scale Attack

A quarter of a mile from a civilian border crossing between Israel and northern Gaza lies what Israel’s military says is the largest tunnel discovered in the enclave. It is large enough that large vehicles can drive through it, and yet, until recently, Israel didn’t know the tunnel reached right up to its border.

Israeli troops uncovered the tunnel exit buried under a sand dune a few weeks ago. Israeli officials believe that the tunnel, up to 50 meters deep at points, and 2½ miles long, took years and millions of dollars to build and was meant to facilitate a large-scale attack on Israel.

“This is for moving massive assets,” Israeli military spokesman Lt. Col. Richard Hecht told reporters on Sunday. “It’s strategic.”

The discovery of the large tunnel near the Israeli border provides further insight into how much Hamas has invested into its tunnel program and how little Israel knew about it before the group’s Oct. 7 attack. Analysts say this large tunnel demonstrates how Hamas has improved its subterranean warfare over the years and raises questions about how many other tunnels of that size are located near Israel without the military being aware of them.

Israeli military spokesman Daniel Hagari called the large tunnel “Sinwar’s secret,” a reference to Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar, and his brother Mohammad Sinwar, who Israeli officials say headed the tunnel building project.

“Hamas has the most extensive and most sophisticated tunnel network ever encountered in warfare,” said Daphné Richemond-Barak, professor at Israel’s Reichman University and author of a book on underground combat.

The Israeli military took a group of reporters, including from The Wall Street Journal, into the tunnel on Friday. Journalists were able to enter only the first approximately 50 yards of the tunnel, a limitation that the Israeli military said was for their safety.

In one video shown to journalists by the Israeli military, Mohammad Sinwar can be seen driving a car through what they say is the tunnel. The video also shows Hamas using a large tunnel drilling machine that has allowed it to expand the size and quality of their tunnel building.

Israeli military officials say their war to destroy Hamas’s military capabilities won’t be finished until the group’s tunnel network has been eliminated. That process, which officials say will take time, could put Israel at odds with international demands to wrap up its war in Gaza as the civilian death toll continues to mount.

“Without demolishing the tunnel project of Hamas, we cannot demolish Hamas,” said Israeli military spokesman Rear Adm. Daniel Hagari in a briefing to reporters.

There are hundreds of miles of underground tunnels in Gaza, Israeli officials say. Some, like the one found near the Israeli border, are meant to facilitate cross-border attacks or attacks within Gaza. Israeli officials say they have located and are in the process of destroying dozens of such tunnels.

While some of Hamas’s tunnels are barely wide and tall enough for one person to move through crouched down, Israeli officials say this tunnel, near the Erez border crossing and adjacent Israeli military base, is a key part of Hamas’s infrastructure.

part 2 of 2

The tunnel’s reinforced cement walls are lined with electrical wiring, making it not just a passageway, but a living space where Hamas fighters can stay underground for a long period. Israel’s military said the tunnel has ventilation and sewage systems, bathrooms, blast doors to prevent entry, multiple branches, communication networks and weapons stored inside.

Despite battling Hamas’s tunnel network for two decades, including after the Oct. 7 attack, Israel was unaware that such a massive tunnel was located on its border and near the Erez crossing and a military base. The Erez crossing—now closed—was used by Gaza’s civilians to move in and out of Israel for work, medical treatment or travel abroad, among other purposes.

The Hamas militants who attacked the civilian crossing and adjacent military base on Oct. 7 drove motorcycles, pickup trucks and tractors to demolish the protective fencing. The Israeli military said some part of the large tunnel was likely used to help in that attack, but they believe the part that extends to the Israeli border was being saved for a later date.

North Gaza is just a five-minute drive from the base across the sand dunes of Gaza, and militants attacked early in the morning and on a Jewish holiday, when the base had fewer soldiers at hand.

Hamas started its tunnel program with crude small passageways reinforced with wooden planks. Over the years, the group has built tunnels reinforced with concrete that vehicles can pass through, similar to those built by North Korea into South Korea, said Richemond-Barak.

In 2014, after Israel discovered Hamas had built dozens of passageways from Gaza into Israel, it built an underground barrier and invested in a system to detect tunnel digging called “the Obstacle.”

But Hamas also has a vast network located within the enclave, and tunnels on its border with Egypt for smuggling weapons and a potential route for senior militants to flee Gaza’s battlefield.

Hamas has dug tunnels that include underground bases, living quarters, and weapons depots throughout Gaza’s urban landscape. The group’s militants use those tunnels to battle Israeli soldiers by popping out and mounting a quick attack, such as firing an RPG at an Israeli tank, and rushing back into the underground system.

Israeli soldiers say they have found tunnel shafts in grocery shops and schools, and in or near hospital complexes, universities, private homes and even a graveyard. The tunnels’ locations make it a challenge to destroy them without harming Gaza’s civilian population.

Israeli troops have located at least 800 tunnel exits since the current war began, but the military says the majority of the network remains undiscovered. Military analysts say a variety of techniques will be needed to destroy or damage the underground system.

The Israeli military has attacked the underground network with airstrikes and filled them with liquid explosives, and has also begun flooding some tunnels with seawater. Before sending in soldiers, it explores the tunnels using robots, dogs and drones.

Dealing with the tunnels has been one of the deadlier tasks for Israeli soldiers. Earlier this month, Gal Eizenkot, son of Gadi Eizenkot, a former Israeli military chief and one of five members in Israel’s war cabinet, was killed by a booby trap at the entrance to a tunnel shaft.

Why did NO ONE notice all the moved earth coming out and being transported?
It wasn't like they could put it in their pockets and scatter it in the prison yard.

My guess would be to build a large building nearby. When you dig the foundation connect it to the tunnel network.

Just take a few extra weeks and extra tons of dirt and move them.

quote:

Originally posted by ScreamingCockatoo:
Why did NO ONE notice all the moved earth coming out and being transported?
It wasn't like they could put it in their pockets and scatter it in the prison yard.

And it's not like they didn't know for years that Hamas was building tunnels....

U.S. to Push Israel to Scale Back War

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2...re-to-scale-back-war

Defense Secretary Lloyd J. Austin III was traveling on Sunday in the Middle East for a visit to Israel and three Persian Gulf nations as Biden administration officials push Israel to end its large-scale ground and air campaign in the Gaza Strip within weeks and transition to a more focused phase in its war against Hamas.

Mr. Austin will meet with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Israel’s defense minister, Yoav Gallant, to discuss in detail when and how Israeli forces will carry out a new phase that American officials envision would involve smaller groups of elite forces, U.S. officials said. Those forces would move in and out of population centers in Gaza, conducting more precise, intelligence-driven missions to find and kill Hamas leaders, rescue hostages and destroy tunnels, according to the U.S. officials.

While the secretary is expected to voice support for Israel’s campaign to destroy Hamas’s ability to wage military operations, he will also reinforce the importance of taking civilian safety into account during operations and the critical need to increase delivery of humanitarian assistance, a senior Pentagon official said.

Just how much leverage does the United States have in this matter? Are we providing materiel aid such as munitions?

Are we funding this war?

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
Just how much leverage does the United States have in this matter? Are we providing materiel aid such as munitions?

Are we funding this war?

I don't think we are funding the war, but we definitely exert influence upon Israel. In the 1980s, Israel bombed the Iraqi nuclear reactor using their newly-purchased F-16s. In response, the US made some heated speeches and delayed delivery of new F-16s and maybe F-15s. But, in a year, it was back to normal.

Today, Israel has a really good arms infrastructure. IMO, they make their own tanks and a lot of other weapons.

I think the only influence the US has in in delivery/sales of certain weapons the Israeli's can't manufacture themselves or get elsewhere (such as airframes/parts/support for their F-35s) and (the biggest one, IMO) our role on the UN Security Council.

To be honest, as much as the dems HATE Israel, I am actually amazed we vetoed the UN ceasefire.