Well, you can ask questions to which we do not have answers all day long, and then speculate to your hearts content, and end up back at the beginning, with nothing proven.

Again, I'll point out that searching for logic in governmental actions is pure folly.

Much of the speculation over time comes from the Feds refusing to release information that could in many minds settle it, however with the latest mistrust in all things Government, releasing the report, fully unredacted would probably start another round of conspiracy from people who mistrust DC, FBI, et all

As I mentioned, this mistrust of the government took off like a rocket after Vietnam and Watergate, but in terms of the Kennedy Assassination, speculation remains nothing but speculation.

Para, I think the mistrust started in May 1960. The U.S. was caught lying about the U2 flight.

Here’s a detailed story on Jack Ruby’s day, just before the shot Oswald. You may need to put your email to read it.

https://www.justthefacts.media...ust-terrible-strange

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
After the assassination, Oswald also murdered Dallas Police Officer J.D. Tippit with a war surplus S&W revolver, which had been converted from .38/200 to .38 Special, before being captured by authorities in a Dallas movie theater.

I have one of these mail order revolvers from the same supplier.

Mars, off subject but I also have one of those with the same Franzite grips. Mine differs as it still has a uncut 6” barrel (serial numbered to the gun) the lanyard loop and unconverted from .38 Smith and Wesson to .38 Special.

No import marks so it returned prior to the enactment of the GCA of 1968.

What amazes me every time I think about it is how the same people, or at least the same like-minded people, who have absolutely no trust in the competence of agencies like the FBI and CIA have no trouble believing that the same agencies are nevertheless capable of maintaining to this day an effective coverup of the probably most-scrutinized event in US history in terms of the number of people who were/are determined to discover some previously-hidden titillating fact.

If one is looking for yet another thing to be depressed about, start reading the multiple accounts of FBI, CIA, and NSA spies who betrayed genuine highly-sensitive secrets that resulted in people being killed and could have had disastrous results for the country in a military conflict. If traitors were willing to do that sort of thing can we believe for a moment that none of the countless people who would have had to have been involved in the supposed JFK murder coverup wouldn’t have sold the story by now along with eight by ten color glossy photographs with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each?

I’m not even charitable enough to excuse the bizarre beliefs and their proponents about the JFK murder as our not being able to understand and accept how one man could change history by acting on his own. That may be why the ignorant masses accept wild claims, but that’s not why prominent figures dream up and promote them in the first place.
I attribute most of such claims by those people to the desire to attract attention to themselves. As I’ve stated times before, in a society that permits it, as ours does, one of the easiest way to do that is to attack some common belief, position, policy, or social value.

Standing up on a soapbox and loudly proclaiming that he was killed at the behest of LBJ with the connivance of the FBI, CIA, USSS, and anyone else that can somehow be stirred into the conspiracy stew is literally no different than dying one’s hair pink, standing on the White House lawn displaying where one’s breasts used to be, and loudly demanding that children should be permitted to have their penises and testicles removed at public expense when they reach age 12. It’s all intended to attract attention to oneself—and because such things work so well, the numbers of people willing to do such things only grows.

And to point out one more fact about logical, nondiseased thinking, the absence of an answer is not an answer. Just because I cannot prove who killed Jimmy Hoffa doesn’t validate your contention that he was abducted by little green men and is being held in a cryo chamber on Pluto.

quote:

Originally posted by sigfreund:

...along with eight by ten color glossy photographs with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each...

I admire the seasonal tie-in!

Happy Thanksgiving to you, too, sigfreund!

A conspiracy need not entail a large number of people. It could be one or two insiders taking advantage of an already established asset. Oswald was the kind of defective personality the government would be able to use for access to potential anti-USA circles.

A very small group could have decided to light the Oswald fuse and see where it went.

I don't believe there were multiple shooters or a large cabal of conspirators.

My observation is that conspiracy theorists ask questions that are biased and then develop biased speculation. One of the most flagrant examples of this is the first standard question asked by 9/11 truth-ers. It is the wrong question and leads to a warren of misguided speculation.

It does all return to the same problem though. Our government is untrustworthy. It lies first and foremost. Today I think our government and its agencies are no more trustworthy than the Soviets. It’s no wonder a rational person would automatically disbelieve what the official story is even if it happens to be true or mostly so.

He’s dead. Been dead. As my momma used to say” The more you stir an old turd the worse it stinks”

Ah, yes: the patsy theory.

Just as in the attempted murder and attempted attempt to murder President Trump that was made possible by identifying, recruiting, and motivating someone who didn’t like JFK to kill him, why didn’t that brilliant and persuasive individual, group, or gaggle who presumably knew something about assassinations from a distance nudge their patsy into at least using a reasonably effective weapon?

Rather than just letting Oswald order a $30 military surplus rifle with all of its obvious defects, why not, “Hey, man, we’ll also give you enough money to buy a decent gun to do the deed with”? Even James Earl Ray knew enough to buy a modern rifle and scope at the time to kill MLK.

Who were the people who would and could have orchestrated such an act? If they were smart enough, well-connected enough, motivated enough, and not to mention confident enough that they would never be identified by the shooter as the instigators of the murder—or if they were, they were so powerful that nothing would ever happen to them—why would they have let LHO use a weapon that allowed him to succeed only by mere chance?

The one thing I’ve noted time and again in accounts that attempt to explain why Oswald didn’t just decide to kill JFK on his own without any prompting or assistance by others is that they focus on only one or two elements in isolation and ignore all the other factors that would have made the element(s) of interest so unlikely, if not impossible.

One of the most common conspiracies I hear is that LBJ, along with various other co-conspirators killed Kennedy. A massive problem with any politician being involved in an assassination is what happens if they get caught?
Did LBJ want JFK dead so badly that he would risk prison time? What happens if someone talks, or more likely, the assassination fails. Who would risk an investigation ran by a vengeful JFK? There are so many things that could go wrong, it would be insane to get mixed up in plot against the most powerful man in the world.
Of course LBJ may have hated Kennedy and may have wanted him gone. Johnson was a deeply flawed, ambitious man, but way too smart to be even indirectly involved in actually assasinating a sitting president.

As one who's actually gotten paid (as a LEO) to investigate conspiracies for years, I can definitively say this: Those involved talk. They talk to spouses, family members, lovers, friends, people they work with, and those they've been acquainted with for many years or just a few weeks. Those spoken to talk to others and they in turn spread the word until it gets back to investigators.

Sometimes the promise of reward money or special consideration for a pending prosecution elicits these people to talk to investigators, but most of the time (on serious matters) those "in the know", just want to let it out and all they need is a bit of probing by someone that's shown an interest in them and what they've got to say, and they'll spill their guts. Someone that'll listen.

When the President of the United States was murdered, it was literally the most horrific act of wrongdoing committed against the citizens of the nation, not to mention the victim, his family, friends, and other loved ones in decades. If there was truly a conspiracy to commit this act, word among those involved would have gotten out by someone over the last sixty plus years. There's far too much incentive to talk and (at this point) far too little reason not to. Those "dark recesses" of government involve far too many people that would have been directly involved and innumerable others that would have learned about those responsible who would have passed what they had learned on. That lack of credible/corroborative information after all this time speaks volumes.

I have to say, Mars, that pistol is interesting in a historical context. But it's also one of the ugliest pistols I have ever seen.

The fact that Trump promised again to release the records makes me believe that he will do so this time. Then the game of three-dimensional chess we all have been playing for decades will end.

Your impeccably researched arguments and counter-arguments, Para, are utterly convincing. But selogic's observation is interesting. And it's the one speculation that you don't counter with facts but with further speculation.

Actually that's not the model of pistol, this one is. Shrouded hammer Colt.

https://lasvegassun.com/news/2...gas-guns-trajectory/

A bit less ugly.

It doesn't have grips that resemble staghorn inasmuch as a tomato resembles Superman.

quote:

Originally posted by 220-9er:
Actually that's not the model of pistol, this one is. Shrouded hammer Colt.

https://lasvegassun.com/news/2...gas-guns-trajectory/

Oswald's revolver was .38-200 S&W Victory which had been rechambered in .38 Special.

Ruby's revolver was a hammer-shrouded Colt Cobra.

It's fairly obvious what really happened on that fateful day in 1963. Scott Bakula (aka Sam Beckett) did a Quantum Leap and became Oswald. Then, a little later he Quantum Leapt into Ruby's body and shot Oswald. Quite simple, really.