The introduction to the linked article supports what I wrote. They didn't determine that the first shot hit something else until 1979, and it wasn't until 2010 that they got around to actually inspecting the traffic device.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
A Technical Investigation Pertaining to the First Shot Fired in the JFK Assassination

quote:

Originally posted by SgtGold:
The introduction to the linked article supports what I wrote. They didn't determine that the first shot hit something else until 1979, and it wasn't until 2010 that they got around to actually inspecting the traffic device.

Not exactly. Your comment suggests that the bullet was stopped by the traffic signal, when, in fact:

quote:

From these findings, it is concluded that the most reasonable explanation for why Lee Harvey Oswald’s first shot missed is that the bullet struck the mast arm of the signal light and was redirected on its flight path, eventually to a concrete curb where the FBI found evidence of a bullet impact

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Originally posted by Oregon:

quote:

Originally posted by KMitch200:
Howard Donahue’s ballistic science applied to the shooting was pretty compelling. He studied it intensely for 25 years.

Bit of a red flag there.

How so? Donahue started researching in 1967, with some pauses during the 25 years he looked at it.
He took his digging as far as he could go.

ETA: He died in ‘99.

Meaning it sounds a bit obsessive.

Here we are on page 9, having a lively discussion over items that have been extensively researched and covered in more than one of the many good books written on the subject.

All part of the fun, but if it seems to some that those better informed are a little impatient with having to answer these questions repeatedly, they could solve that problem easily.
Just go and read one of those books and you'll know those answers too.

Some people prioritize not being wrong over knowing the truth of a thing. It's a pride thing, I guess. Me? I am more interested in knowing the truth than anything else. I could hold a belief about a given subject for years, but if someone can prove I was mistaken all that time, I will thank that person for cluing me in. I absolutely hate deception! But, I have come to realize there are a lot of people who just can't accept the fact they were deceived or even just mistaken about something.

I remember the Trayvon/Zimmerman lies vividly. I did a lot of research on that subject, and eventually Massad Ayoob wrote an extensive article about it. The evidence was there and it was irrefutable. But, people had been deceived and they just refused to accept it was all a lie perpetrated by the Obama administration and the media. Their pride would not allow them to be persuaded by the truth.

Maybe that's what is happening with the JFK story.

I've read Para's posts for 17 years now and he employs logic and does extensive research. I don't know why there needs to be any discussion about this topic - we have an expert on the subject right here running this forum.

He's either correct, or it's the Quantum Leap story I mentioned earlier.

quote:

Originally posted by trapper189:
If everybody talks, then who killed Hoffa and where is his body?

But, I do think LHO was/would have been a talker.

That is the mob. They can keep a secret better than the government.

It also took a much smaller cadre of conspirators to do away with Hoffa than it would be for a governmental conspiracy to kill a President, which, if it is to be believed in this instance, would take the Vice President and who knows how many members of the CIA and probably the FBI and senior staff of branches of the U.S. military, not to mention all sorts of bureaucrats and on and on.

A mob boss says "Enough of Hoffa." A capo arranges the hit and the disposal of the body. Trusted captains carry out the duties, and who knows, maybe some of those people went away quickly to make sure the secret stayed secret.

Apples and Cannoli

quote:

It also took a much smaller cadre of conspirators to do away with Hoffa than it would be for a governmental conspiracy to kill a President, which, if it is to be believed in this instance, would take the Vice President and who knows how many members of the CIA...

The CIA operates in very narrow silos to preserve secrecy and deniability.

Is it possible that some small part of the CIA had some prior contact with LHO? Yes, I think it's possible. I have no evidence for it.

The same holds true for the recent attempts on the life of President Trump. Was the "deep state" encouraging of Ryan Routh? It's possible. He was on their radar and previously in contact with them.

I think the last 8 years have begun to expose the intel agencies as unaccountable to the elected branches of government, operating outside the law.

All these conspiracy theories involve one thing, much like the left ignoring that republicans are roughly 50% of our country, the vast majority of U.S. government organizations won’t and wouldn’t stand for the type of behavior some are accusing them of.

Its said often here that the CIA, FBI, NSA did some diabolical misdeed against America. While the organizations aren’t perfect, and do some silly shit, many ignore that the vast majority of its members and real Americans.

I find it hard to believe that so many treat them like the KGB or some other to be feared organization. Yes they make mistakes and suffer from bad leadership at times, but something like this going on without acknowledgment it like Bigfoot. So many photos but no proof. It isn’t happening like many people claim.

Oswald defected to the Soviet Union. Of course the CIA and FBI were aware of him, as they would be of all who denounced their American citizenship and defected or attempted to defect to Communist countries.

Oswald publicly lobbied for communist-controlled Cuba and was filmed handing out flyers for Cuba on a city street. He also was interviewed on TV and was on at least one radio talk show.

There is no doubt whatsoever that Oswald was known to federal authorities. When he was in Russia, he was watched constantly by the KGB. The State Department was involved in his repatriation.

Oswald was a perpetual malcontent who thought he was something special. He attracted attention to himself. His ultimate attention-seeking act was murdering John F. Kennedy.

Anyone who wishes to construct fantasies about all of this, making Oswald a CIA operative, have at it. Perhaps in another sixty-one years, there may even be some actual evidence of this emerge.

Anyone who thinks that the files being withheld by the government contain evidence of such a thing, I think will find themselves very disappointed when these files are released.

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I think the last 8 years have begun to expose the intel agencies as unaccountable to the elected branches of government, operating outside the law.

President Trump knows he can't trust them:

President Trump’s Chief of Staff, Susie Wiles, announced the Trump transition team has refused to sign an MOU with the Government Services Administration (GSA), and will not be using cell phones, computers, offices or “any technology” provided by the GSA. This is a smart move to avoid the Deep State surveillance situation that was faced in the first term.

In the first Trump administration, the GSA had wiretaps, office bugs, and gave all the electronic communication information from the Trump transition to the FBI, IC and later Robert Mueller. In essence, the GSA spied on the Trump team, then gave all the data to the operatives who were in place to target them. The Trump team is not making this mistake again.

https://theconservativetreehou...illance/#more-266716

What does that have to do with the subject at hand? BTW, is there any reason you quoted yourself?

Nothing directly.

However, mistrust of the intel agencies is warranted... whether today or 60 years ago.
They may have had nothing to do with directing LHO's actions or any knowledge of his intent but they deserve the skepticism.

quote:

BTW, is there any reason you quoted yourself?

Just building on a prior statement.

quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:
They may have had nothing to do with directing LHO's actions or any knowledge of his intent but they deserve the skepticism.

OK, consider me skeptical.

That'll show 'em!

Lee Harvey Oswald, acting alone, shot and killed JFK. Jack Ruby, acting alone, shot and killed Lee Harvey Oswald.

.

Yes, the insipid truth.

Let us add spice to these near-flavorless bits, mixing in copious amounts of conspiracy of all sorts. What shall we put in? Whatchu got? Hell, just dump the entire spice rack in the pot! No matter that we end up with a confused melange. At least it tastes like something now!

The cost? Merely the truth, chef, buried under all that diversion.

quote:

Originally posted by Greymann:
Lee Harvey Oswald, acting alone, shot and killed JFK. Jack Ruby, acting alone, shot and killed Lee Harvey Oswald.

.

Then why are documents still redacted or completely suppressed ? If it really is that simple then why ?

Because some of the people who could be interviewed are still alive.

quote:

Originally posted by selogic:

quote:

Originally posted by Greymann:
Lee Harvey Oswald, acting alone, shot and killed JFK. Jack Ruby, acting alone, shot and killed Lee Harvey Oswald.

.

Then why are documents still redacted or completely suppressed ? If it really is that simple then why ?

I think I saw Trump telling Rogan that he would declassify the documents, though "some people might be embarrassed."


So, I'm guessing that either some evidence handling was screwed up, or some of the protective detail didn't do something they were supposed to/said they did.

Don't believe in conspiracy, but I do believe in bureaucrats covering their a$$.