Related Content: Mason's Rifle Room
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A 40 or 357 Sig wont punch through body armor either, so 9mm is just fine and shoot them in the face and they will go down. | |||
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| Administrator |
When I first heard about this project I didn't know what kind of glue SIG would be swimming in to get the .357./.40 compatibility with what started out as a 9mm receiver and being able to do so seemed like a nice plus. You know, something that sounds great on the corporate white-board. If SIG could go back and do it all over again I wonder if they'd have chosen the same route (a multi-cal upper vs, maybe, two different uppers: a .40/.357 and a dedicated 9mm). While it would be very prestigious to see someone like the Secret Service dump their MP5s in favor the the MPX (particularly some chambered in .357 SIG), I do wonder what the overall commercial potential of a switch-caliber platform is and whether it will be worth the delays and seeming setbacks to the platform in general. I know I can't afford to shoot a bunch of .357 SIG and .40 is pure <meh> to me. Neither of those two calibers has a huge following outside the US, particularly when it comes to agency purchases. I wonder if making the gun mostly 9mm-only and having a discretionary purchasable .40/.357 SIG upper and magazines might have been a smoother and more economical, if less prestigious way to go. | |||
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| Member |
You make a good point LDD. They should have just made a swappable upper, but then how many people would acctually by them? I am sure they will sell five 9mm versions for every one 40/357. A 9mm +P+ is going to have about the same velocity/energy as both the 40/357 and the magazine will hold more. | |||
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| Member |
If I am not mistaken the interest in 357, 40 and perhaps 10mm and the longer 9mm rounds was in part, increased effective range and terminal ballistics especially through the use of a longer barrel. When you think about it, subcaliber rounds like the 223 and some pdw weapons are doing a good job in carbines. I guess one would ask why on earth then consider pistol calibers at all in carbine roles. I cant answer this question, but perhaps its a "memory" tradition, that goes something like...9mm subguns have done very well in well designed deployments, so...etc etc. I have a sneaking suspicion that both serious business users and casual shooters, are not truly comfortable with the snap, crackle, pop and flash from a rifle round in 10 inch barrels...next to their faces, sometimes in claustrophobic enviroments. Maybe, we all like the no recoil gentle purr of an ordinary 9mm subgun. Part of the terminal ballistics probs in both human targets and overpenetration, could be solved by better bullets, and hotter rounds for better range use. I am particularly interested in the mpx, for a number of reasons. I was never happy with the mp5...too much lock for a 9mm, and still did not demonstrate the smoothness of older open bolts. ALL, with no exception, blowback closed bolts I tried, had a slappy recoil, and some would soon shake themselves to bits. For a while now, I have been messing with some designs that deal with closed bolt delayed blowback. I do not know who was behind the mpx, but about 4 years ago, I was talking to a senior technical person within SIG Neuhausen, and I kinda skirted around some of my own ideas...he said, sig are already onto a new carbine. Anyway, I don't want to ramble on too much, but the work goes on. LDD, if I may ask, what in your opinion is bad about the UMP ? | |||
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E Pluribus Unum |
To quote LDD (loosely)... "Firing the UMP feels like shaking a shoebox with a brick in it forwards and backwards." A pretty accurate analogy, I'd say. | |||
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| Member |
Hmmmmmm, wonder if its due to s very heavy spring and bolt....it fires from a closed bolt, right ? Open bolt guns have a much lighter spring, and there is almost no recoil due to advanced primer ignition. Have to admit thought that some people describe fa uzi's in the same manner as the ump, but maybe its for want of a better description. | |||
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| Administrator |
JRC summed it up pretty well. Here is the longer version from my original MPX article:
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| Member |
Ok, I think I begin to get the picture and I am not at all surprised at the ump with its simple blowback action. However, given my design research at the moment, I am after objective detail and one thing worries me: Some people have fired an uzi and subjectively describe it that it rattles back and forth too much. Now, fact is that the uzi has almost zero recoil. What some shooters feel is not recoil at all, but the bolt weight moving. This is mainly due to the bolt weight moving over the centre of gravity which is about the grip. In fact, using a vertical foregrip reduces the oscillation to almost zero. My manic concern for detail, has a reason. As a designer, every step forward is usually the result of a lot of energy and hours of experimentation. If I can avoid a particular step or direction because someone has done that and reaped the benefits or paid the price, I will sit up to listen. I cannot shoot every gun in the world (I try :-}so thank anyone for feedback. | |||
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| Member |
I thought this was a Sig Sauer MPX thread? Start another thread if you want to chat about the Uzi, MP5, UMP, etc. Thank you. | |||
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I'm sorry, got carried away. | |||
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| Member |
It's cool, I know it's more of a comparison with the MPX, which is the king of the hill at this point. I have had 0 issues except for the charging handle slop which I hope the gen 2 version will fix. | |||
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So whats this about a Gen2 MPX? This just came out and there is talk about a second generation of these already? | |||
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| Go ahead punk, make my day |
An upper that can convert calibers between 9/40/357SIG. First models are 9MM only. | |||
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| Member |
Im confused now.... Reading this, http://www.thetruthaboutguns.c...ig-sauer-mpx-pistol/ I had thought they already had the ability to change calibers already. Why even bother releasing a 9 mm only version ? | |||
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| Administrator |
The answer is in the article you linked to, but was also discussed in this thread in March. SIG released a "9mm only" version in order to answer immediate demand from the product. | |||
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Member |
Too bad those of us who "immediately" bought the MPX based on the notion that caliber changes would be possible didn't realize we were purchasing a 9mm "only" version. We thought we were buying a 9mm "for now" version.  | |||
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| Member |
9mm is all you need. | |||
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| Member |
It's not worth arguing that point here, but even were I to concede it, that doesn't change the fact that many of us made the purchase based on what we wanted. And what we wanted (and were told we were buying) was multi-cal capability. | |||
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| Member |
TBH I didn't plan on doing caliber changes. To me this was just meant to be a fun gun to shoot in cheap and plentiful 9mm and to possibly SBR. I was just surprised to find (today) that these early versions were 9 mm only. Now if only they can come up with a real fix for the charging handle issue. | |||
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| Member |
Ok...Sadly I don't have time to read all 43 pages of this thread, and these days all I have time for is to skim gun articles. | |||
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