quote:

Originally posted by Sig209:

quote:

Originally posted by nhracecraft:

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:

quote:

Originally posted by bdylan:
Oh, good grief. Americans seem to be defenseless against war propaganda.

That ain't no shit.

Yes, especially the legacy 'State Media' consumers, and the Facebook, Instagram, TikTok & Twitter dweller types...

it's always been a thing

we've all seen the 'Why We Fight' videos from WW2 and the graphic posters from WW1...

video / images with the correct music evoke a very powerful emotional response. the human psyche hasn't changed / never will

True, but there's couple of SIGNIFICANT difference here...

1. We're NOT actually in/fighting this war...Yet!
2. 'War Propaganda' is generally produced by .gov entities, to either demoralize the enemy, or stoke feelings of nationalism/support for the 'war effort' and to improve morale both at home and in theater. The current 'propaganda' is seemingly coming from nearly every conceivable entity, through nearly every media platform in existence today!

The 'war propaganda' we're currently being flooded with is unprecedented in both scope and scale, essentially drowning out the actual facts/reporting of the conflict! There's so much 'fake news' that you can discern what's propaganda, and what's reality...

Here's something new. Poland is preparing to propose a NATO peacekeeping mission in Ukraine.

The squatter in the UN Ambassador's office says
- the US will not put troops on the ground; they're worried about escalation
- but the US will support its NATO allies, and respond under Article 5 of the NATO treaty if there is an attack on any NATO member in Europe
- no one from the US is telegraphing that there will be a problem with NATO members who contribute to the peacekeeping force: "[O]ther NATO countries may decide that they want to put troops inside of Ukraine. That is a decision they will have to make."

Full text at http://news.yahoo.com/top-dipl...-role-200509768.html

quote:

Originally posted by Tuckerrnr1:

^^^^ Hmmm, yeah. Let me know if you can pick out in this video the man the entire western world is fawning over right now.


Warning: homo-erotic nonsense ahead:

quote:

Originally posted by Il Cattivo:
Here's something new. Poland is preparing to propose a NATO peacekeeping mission in Ukraine.

Uhm... Are they on drugs?

One of Putin's deals is NATO being in Ukraine. He's hardly going to be accepting of NATO troops in Ukraine on a peacekeeping mission

There will be some people here who don't agree with this video. But it probably wouldn't hurt to give it a listen.

quote:

Originally posted by Balzé Halzé:

quote:

Originally posted by Tuckerrnr1:

^^^^ Hmmm, yeah. Let me know if you can pick out in this video the man the entire western world is fawning over right now.


Warning: homo-erotic nonsense ahead:
[FLASH_VIDEO]<iframe frameborder="0" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/rRCNbOus6pA" title="YouTube video player" width="560"></iframe>[/FLASH_VIDEO]

So what? Reagan had all them Western films and don't forget his famous techno band with scantily clad dudes.

All jokes aside 45 was a reality TV star. He could be a great leader, I don't know if that is the case, but he's damn good at marketing if nothing else. Maybe he just needs to try a big ask with Russia?

I don't know the full situation there or have any Ukraine/Russia history degrees. Either way I'm routing for the dude weird outfits and all.

Hopefully they hold them off and get to keep their country. I don't even care if they are corrupt the people still deserve their sovereignty.

Now that Zelensky has outlawed the other 11 political parties until martial law is over, we need to offer more respect to his office and responsibilities.

I suggest "His Dictatorness "Spike" Zelensky, Ruler of Ukrainistan."

Or just "7 Inch Spike" would do.

wcb6092, that is the most informative video I have seen yet and I learned much from this. Thank you. I sent it to a relative to view.

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:

quote:

Originally posted by Il Cattivo:
Here's something new. Poland is preparing to propose a NATO peacekeeping mission in Ukraine.

Uhm... Are they on drugs?

This is where American leadership is supposed to come into play to guide our European partners away from bad decisions. Unfortunately the retards we have in place right now are both cowardly and stupid, hence the mess. The US should be actively opposing 'any' NATO foray in Ukraine. Standing in the back of the room and trying not to get involved is virtually guaranteed to result in disaster for everyone.

quote:

Originally posted by Tirod:
Now that Zelensky has outlawed the other 11 political parties until martial law is over, we need to offer more respect to his office and responsibilities.

"The other eleven parties"? Twenty-two parties contested the last elections, and only two of the circumscribed eleven parties actually got seats in the Ukrainian legislature. Those two had a total of 49 seats out of the 450 seats in that legislature.

At the same time, all eleven of those parties were either pro-Russian or pro-separatist (one, I believe, is actually a Russian party) at a time when Russia has waged an unprovoked war on Ukraine, forcing an existential crisis on Ukraine that's led to the deaths of thousands of innocent Ukrainian civilians and active attempts by Russia to partition the country.

http://thehill.com/policy/inte...ked-to-russia-banned

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P...arties_in_Parliament

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verkhovna_Rada

You made it sound as though Zelensky had banned every party in Ukraine except his own in an arbitrary power grab, but that wasn't what happened at all.

Tirod's just pissed because Zelensky was recently promoted to Grand Vizier of the Lizardfolk Illuminati. Or so the voices told him.

CNN interview w David Petraeus

Patraeus confirms that 4 of the 5 Russian generals that Ukraine claims were killed, were indeed killed. He didn't know yet about the 5th

He said Russian command and control has broken down. Their communications have been jammed by the Ukranians, their secure comms didn't work. Russians went to cell phones but Ukrainians blocked the prefix to Russia. Ukranians took down 3G. Russians are stealing cell phones from Ukraine civilians to communicate amongst each other.

There is no sense of initiative at Russian junior levels. Generals go forward and Ukraine has very good snipers.

https://www.cnn.com/videos/wor...e-military-conflict/

This seems a rather astonishing claim:

quote:

The Russian 331st Guards Airborne Regiment of the 98th Guard Airborne Division is Claimed to have been almost Completely wiped out by Ukrainian Forces near the Capital of Kyiv, the Unit consisted of around 2000 Airborne Soldiers alongside over 200 Armored Fighting Vehicles.

Cite: https://twitter.com/sentdefend.../1505548919375339521

N.B.: I have absolutely no idea who "OSINTdefender" is or how credible its claims.

Russian media has acknowledged the KIA status of Col. Sukharev.

Apparently Speak The Truth is buying it. He showed a video claiming to be that of the battlefield aftermath. There does appear to be quite a bit of thoroughly-trashed armor.

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:
Tirod's just pissed because Zelensky was recently promoted to Grand Vizier of the Lizardfolk Illuminati. Or so the voices told him.

There's apparently a few here who seem to have a problem with a man stepping up to lead his nation against a foreign aggressor.

So he did some stupid shit in the past. Who hasn't? It has no bearing, zero, on his actions today which are nothing short of heroic. Hell, me and some buddies once dressed up in drag for a frat party. I guess that disqualifies me from doing anything substantial for the rest of my life.

I'll wager the video is likely parody/satire of the Russian folk, as the timing of it was about the same time as Russia invading the east Ukraine eight years ago.

I know a couple of folks hear have Ukraine friends/family who might be able to shed light on that.


All that beside the point, I think his current actions, and Ukraine not being a compliant bitch to Putin and Co., speaks more on point than the video, and that fact that Zelensky was in entertainment, comedy and such.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/20...-intl-hnk/index.html

Inside the Kyiv junkyard that recycles Russian weapons for Ukrainian forces

"Last night we sent the Ukrainian armed forces 24 Uragan missiles that were on their way here to fly over our cities," says Yuri Golodov, the deputy commander of one of Ukraine's Territorial Forces and a retired seaman from the Ukrainian Navy.

"We captured them intact, gave them to the Armed Forces of Ukraine at night and now the Ukrainian army has fired missiles back at them," Golodov says.

Golodov plays a key role in repurposing military equipment abandoned by the Russian army -- or captured from it.
He leads a team working at a military junkyard at an undisclosed location in Kyiv, repairing and repainting Russian military equipment for use by Ukrainian forces.

Golodov says his battalion is also responsible for capturing some of the equipment in the yard.
"We are special forces battalion of deep reconnaissance which works behind enemy lines," he explains. "Our task is to destroy the provision of the Russian army -- ammunition, fuel, food."

Around the corner, a former Russian army fuel truck is ready to be redeployed and, under the cover of a camouflage blanket, a captured armored personnel carrier awaits its next assignment.

It is old, rusty and heavy Soviet era machinery that breaks the pavement, as members of the Ukrainian Territorial Defense Forces move it around, but the soldiers here say they will put it to good use.

According to Golodov, the vehicle was captured by his unit, when they attacked a Russian column.
"We shot at the first vehicle, and when it exploded the column stopped," he says. "(Russian soldiers) ran away and we took their military equipment."
According to Golodov and his men, this is a common occurrence on the battlefield.


"Russian soldiers are frightened, demoralized. They are afraid to part with each other, because they are being shot at from every bush," he says.
He says some seem to be very young and inexperienced: "Most of them do not know or understand why they are here."

Golodov is 69

quote:

Originally posted by wcb6092:
There will be some people here who don't agree with this video. But it probably wouldn't hurt to give it a listen.

I had already made up my mind to not waste another moment watching a Jimmy Dore video...but...it's wise to occasionally re-check one's conclusions so, against my better judgement, I watched this one. Yeah, it hurt.

To be fair, there are small points in the video, especially the beginning, that I agree with. He tries to make the case that the war in Ukraine started in 2014. I would argue that there were precipitating events such as the Russian invasion of Georgia in 2008 that have a bearing on this war, but I agree there were events leading up to Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

Let me start out by pointing out that Para once described Jimmy Dore as his favorite leftist.

The description on Jimmy Dore's YouTube channel:

"Jimmy Dore is outrageous and outraged, bothersome and bothered. A crucial, profane, passionate voice for progressives and free-thinkers in 21st century America. Jimmy will anger you if you're a conservative and enrage you if you're a liberal.”—Patton Oswalt

I acknowledge that there is sometimes reason to question Wikipedia info, but as this info jives not only with my own impression of him, but also his frequent use of Leftist source material, as well as his own YouTube description, I'm going to include it:

(Note: my emphasis added in bold.)

Wikipedia-Jimmy Dore's Political Views

Dore said his stand-up shifted to be more political in 2005, describing his new style as "'stickin' it to the man' kind of comedy."[9] A 2019 article in the Chicago Tribune observed that Dore's material critiqued "Wall Street, the military industrial complex, Big Pharma, political operatives and mainstream media".[6]

In a July 2008 interview, Dore said part of him wanted Barack Obama as president but "as a comedian, it would be much better if John McCain became president".[9] Dore said "whenever a conservative is in office, it's great for comedy", citing a "boom in comedy" during the administrations of Ronald Reagan and George W. Bush.[9]

A Los Angeles Times article said The Jimmy Dore Show was a progressive program which had "affection for [Bernie] Sanders and disdain for establishment Democratic politics."[44] Dore supported Bernie Sanders' campaign in the 2016 Democratic Party presidential primaries, being called "Sanders-obsessed" by The Washington Post.[45] He was critical of Senator Elizabeth Warren for not defending Sanders in the primaries when Sanders was accused of being misogynistic.[46]

In 2016, Dore said a Hillary Clinton presidency would be worse for progressives than a Donald Trump presidency, saying "don't freak out about a Donald Trump presidency! I think, in fact, my theory is that it's even better for progressives in the short-term, meaning in the two-year term, and in four years for sure."[47][37]

A Washington Post article in January 2017 stated that, following the 2016 presidential election, Dore had "lit into Democrats for blaming hackers for their loss, raised doubts about the credibility of intelligence agencies, and seen the heavy hand of war hawks hyping the Russia connection to destabilize Europe and the Middle East."[48] Dore was a staunch critic of the Special Counsel investigation into potential collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia.[49] In September 2017, Dore said, "if you don't think we need a third party, you're not paying attention."[50]

In June 2020, an article in The New York Times described Dore as an "ardent critic" of Joe Biden.[49]

In December 2020, Dore circulated a plan to make Nancy Pelosi's re-election as Speaker of the House conditional on Medicare for All receiving a floor vote. The plan was endorsed by Justin Jackson of the Los Angeles Chargers, political commentators Krystal Ball and Briahna Joy Gray, and Cornel West.[51][52][53] Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez criticized the proposal to use her leverage for scheduling a vote that was unlikely to pass.[54] Dore told his viewers Ocasio-Cortez was "standing between you and health care" and, in response to her argument that progressive breakthroughs require years of organizing, Dore said, "I figured this out in two weeks, AOC! You liar. You coward. You gaslighter."[37] Journalists David Sirota and Ryan Grim said that progressives should use their leverage for other purposes.[55] Dore and his supporters responded that a vote on Medicare For All would inform the public of which elected officials opposed a reform that Americans "overwhelmingly" supported.[56][57][58]

In a July 2021 interview on Fox Nation's Tucker Carlson Today, Dore said that the United States is an oligarchy dominated by two corporate parties that are unaccountable to the general population. He emphasized that Joe Biden and the Democratic Party use identity politics to placate their political base so as to avoid having to implement populist progressive policies like raising the minimum wage, forgiving student debt, or establishing single-payer healthcare.[59]

Jimmy Dore was a member of the Democrat party until 2016, at which point he changed to the Independent party. He is a Bernie Sanders supporter, supports single-payer socialized health care insurance, supports raising minimum wages, supports forgiving student loan debt, and supports raising the minimum wage.

We're not talking about some bastion of Conservatism here. We're talking about an anti-establishment Leftist that is only all too happy to criticize both Republicans and Democrats to further his cause of promoting a viable Progressive party.

He is a pro- Russia Leftist, so of course he is going to cherry-pick other pro-Russia sources that support his point of view.

Referencing the video:

3:23 mark- Mearshiemer co-authors a book identifying the Israel lobby. Assuming this is true, so what? There are a multitude of lobbies, both on the Right and the Left. I'd be willing to bet other nations lobby as well. Dore & Blumenthal attempting to legitimize Mearshiemer's statements about Ukraine because he previously exposed Israel's 'misdeed' in lobbying.

6 minute mark- they discuss the U.S./ West's attempt to cancel all things Russia. I mostly agree. I support the sanctions (although they should've been imposed prior to the invasion), but this attempt to cancel all things Russian is ridiculous. It's possible to support Ukraine's resistance from a foreign Russian invasion, without hating or cancelling the Russian people or the culture they bring to the world.

7:39 mark- This is the second Jimmy Dore video that I've watched in which he has relied on radical Leftist academic Noam Chomsky to make his point that Russia is not to blame. Noam Chomsky is a Communist sympathizer dating back decades.

an excerpt from his own website:

Who is Noam Chomsky

Ideologically, he aligns with anarcho-syndicalism and libertarian socialism

9:37 mark- Dore now falls back to Stephen Cohen, another pro-Russia advocate to make his point that Russia is the victim of the West's policies.

12:57 mark- Jimmy Dore characterizes "Ukraine as a NAZI organization".

It's probably fair to say there is a wing of NAZI supporters in Ukraine, but it strikes me as unfair to characterize the whole of Ukraine that way.


16:35 mark- Max Blumenthal states that "NATO is a permanent war alliance that has no reason to exist in it's current incarnation, after the Cold War, except to encircle, threaten, and contain Russia, and push for conflict."

NATO is a defensive alliance. It has always been one. Every single interview I've ever heard from any military officers or strategists ever involved with NATO, such as Jim Carrafano at The Heritage Foundation, has said they have never created or been informed of any NATO offensive battle plan. It doesn't exist. NATO, including the U.S., has never invaded another country, except after an attack. Russia, on the other hand, has invaded Georgia, Crimea, Belarus, and now the whole of Ukraine.

Let's not forget that President Putin stated, over 20 years ago, that one of the greatest tragedies of the 20th century was the collapse of the Soviet Union.


19:03 mark- Blumenthal claims that the Pentagon Chiefs of Staff were calling for a nuclear attack on Cuba during the Cuban Missile Crisis, as justification for Russian invasion of Ukraine.

I don't know if this is true, but even if is, ultimately there was no nuclear strike, and no invasion of Cuba by the U.S. during this crisis. Russia had other options in settling their dispute with Ukraine, but instead chose to invade.

21:30 mark- Blumenthal says "NATO expansion is the root of all evil here, and that is what Americans need to understand".

Again, NATO is a defensive alliance with no offensive plans. NATO has DOWNSIZED it's forces and NATO countries have DOWNSIZED their expenditures on military budgets, since the Cold War ended.

Is it any wonder that European countries and former Soviet satellite countries who suffered under Soviet oppression would want the protection of joining NATO with an aggressive neighbor on their borders? Is it any wonder that, given Soviet and recent Russian aggression, that a defensive alliance such as NATO would be interested in recruiting like-minded neighbor countries for their common defense against Russian aggression?

22:35 mark- Jimmy Dore says Russia's invasion of Ukraine is to end a war, not start a war.

The same excuse was used by Hitler. Ukraine's internal civil unrest or civil war is not for Russia to settle. Any more than the U.S.'s recent civil unrest is justification for Canada or Mexico to invade us. Russia had other options besides invasion to settle their claims.

24:33 mark- they play a sound byte of Senator Lindsay Graham saying they are going on the offense.

I'm no fan of Senator Graham, but he was talking about offense against the violent pro-Russia separatists in Donbas supported by Russia. Unfortunately, the Ukraine civil war in Donbas has become a proxy war between both sides, but it is an earmark of continuing recent Russian aggression and expansion...which means an offensive against Russian interests in the Donbas.


26:40 mark- Matlock's post points out that Russia demands that Georgia and Ukraine never be admitted into NATO.

To acquiesce to this Russian demand, especially without concessions from Russia, would mean the effective end to NATO. NATO is a sovereign body, and a dictator like President Putin can't be allowed to dictate who it admits into the alliance.

27:01 mark- Jimmy Dore relies on an article from Salon, a Leftist publication, to make his point.


I have no illusions about Ukraine, and their corruption and wrongdoing. The Ukraine government may well have reneged on internal agreements and have blood on their hands. But neither do I see Russia as blameless, and for whatever Ukraine's sins, they are a sovereign nation, and they did not invade Russia.

But, for those of you who claim to be Conservative, given that Jimmy Dore is a Bernie Sanders supporter and a supporter of a Progressive Leftist agenda, and just because he sometimes criticizes Democrats, just as the Squad does, are you sure you want to hitch your credibility to him and use his talking points to support your position?

quote:

Originally posted by Modern Day Savage:
Let me start out by pointing out that Para once described Jimmy Dore as his favorite leftist.

Actually, I refer to him that way, habitually- whenever I post his videos in this forum. Yes, he's a supporter of Bernie Sanders, and for that reason, if no other, he'll never be one of us. We do, however, share some common ground. He hates Hillary Clinton and the corporate news media, and in my book, things like that make him worth listening to, but he most certainly has his critics on both the right and the left. If you watch Dore's videos, there will be things you agree with and there will be things you disagree with. He'll blast Donald Trump in a heartbeat.

His specific position on the Ukrainian conflict is something I haven't paid much attention to.

blah blah blah these 'smart guy' videos all the say the same thing -- it's our fault / Ukraine is corrupt / Zelensky is a clown / Ukrainians are nazis blah blah blah

lets say ALL THAT IS TRUE. (it isn't but lets just say it is...)

does that -- in ANY WAY -- justify Russia's brazen attack killing women, children, innocent civilians and wholesale bombing any and ALL targets -- military and civilian to include hospitals, schools, malls, relief convoys, refuge corridors, etc??

in any way is that acceptable in a modern world ?

of course the answer is a resounding NO. so i have no sympathy for Russia and support Ukraine without reservation. Putin has proven he is a maniac and i hope Russia is bled dry.

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