quote:

Originally posted by nhracecraft:
Has anyone else noticed the NOBODY is talking about how to bring about peace? EVERYONE is talking about to support/defend Ukraine and that by definition is further promoting the conflict.

Where are all the 'diplomats' and 'world leaders' that could be focused on how to negotiate an end to the fighting/brokering a peace deal? It's not even a talking point...ANYWHERE?

The Russians & Ukrainians have had multiple negotiations/meetings to discuss terms to settle the conflict and/or a potential cease fire, but NOBODY is talking about how to mediate those talks...NOBODY!

It's almost as if everyone wants War...

I saw someone make the comparison to the Israel situation recently. If Israel laid down it's weapons there'd be no Israel, if Hamas laid down their weapons there'd be peace. Short of giving Putin everything (or close to it) he wants, he will not stop. That leaves two choices: 1) Fight until he lowers his demands to something they can accept by using conventional then guerilla warfare until Russia burns through supplies/munitions. If they are super duper lucky, Putin accepts a minimal face saving deal and takes the separatist areas. 2) Give up significant land and their sovereignty.

If I were Ukrainian, I would never be willing to accept #2, so peace wouldn't be on the table at all. I would use every drop of ammo I had then grab a kitchen knife and charge. They are literally fighting for their existence. I would never accept living in a Mexican or Canadian controlled USA and would give the ultimate sacrifice to keep our country intact and sovereign. Would you?

I don't care if the war is 100% justified and Russia fears that Ukraine is attempting to take over Russia using US/Western supplied bioweapons. The people will fight for their survival as would I. Hell, even if we were developing bioweapons to attack Mexico or Canada and they preemptively attacked us, even with us being in the 'wrong' I'd still pick up arms and defend out nation.

When faced with annihilation or subservience any proud patriot of any country should/would be fighting to death.

The French could easily have said, "Nah, we're going to sit this one out."

I just watched “Ukraine on fire” produced by Oliver Stone. I learned a lot about Ukraine’s history, and the forces within and out side Ukraine. Anyone wishing to get a view into what’s been happening will see familiar faces within the video. I suspected their were outside forces involved.

I didn't expect Ukraine to hold out so long

Lots of "info" in this report

https://hotair.com/allahpundit...teroffensive-n456054

The thump of distant shelling echoed through the center of Kyiv overnight, while Ukrainian forces appeared to counterattack in the outlying towns of Irpin, Bucha and Hostomel, which have been severely damaged in weeks of street fighting and artillery exchanges. The city and the surrounding region were under an all-day curfew Wednesday.

Ukrainian forces also said they pressed an offensive south and east of the southern port of Mykolaiv, moving in the direction of Kherson, the only Ukrainian regional capital occupied by Russia since the war began Feb. 24. Ukraine said it carried out an airstrike on the Kherson airport, which is now a Russian air base, and satellite imagery of the tarmac showed seven destroyed or damaged Russian helicopters, some of them engulfed in flames. Kyiv also said it shot down two Russian Su-30SM jets over the Black Sea off Odessa.

Even so, the status quo appears to be stalemate. Per the Times, “The war in Ukraine, about to enter its fourth week, has become a grinding daily slog with little evidence of significant gains for either side.” The UK’s ministry of defense agrees:

- The Russian invasion has largely stalled on all fronts
- Russian forces have made minimal progress in recent days and continue to suffer heavy losses
- Ukrainian resistance remains staunch and well-coordinated. All major cities remain in Ukrainian hands

According to the Times, some Russian troops have been so demoralized by battlefield losses, including the losses of generals, that they’re parking their vehicles and walking off into the woods. The military has lost at least 230 tanks already

Two American military officials said that many Russian generals are talking on unsecured phones and radios. In at least one instance, they said, the Ukrainians intercepted a general’s call, geolocated it, and attacked his location, killing him and his staff

I’m skeptical that “the Ukrainians” have the ability to intercept a Russian general’s call. But I can think of a few western allies with the intelligence chops to do it and then feed that information quickly to Zelensky’s troops.

If the military advance really is out of gas then Putin can either reduce his demands in order to get a quick peace deal or ramp up the terror further, possibly with an WMD attack.

sad video:

https://twitter.com/i/status/1504213961633378304

quote:

I’m skeptical that “the Ukrainians” have the ability to intercept a Russian general’s call. But I can think of a few western allies with the intelligence chops to do it and then feed that information quickly to Zelensky’s troops.

Not that it's much in the way of evidence these days, but there are pictures posted on other sites of soldiers with cheap commercial walkie-talkies and there are stories in the media mentioning that Russians are using unsecured radios and ordinary cell phones.

If true, "why?" is one of the great mysteries of this conflict.

quote:

Originally posted by Skins2881:

quote:

Originally posted by nhracecraft:
Has anyone else noticed the NOBODY is talking about how to bring about peace?

I saw someone make the comparison to the Israel situation recently.

That's not entirely inaccurate. but what the previous poster asserted is. There have been steady attempts to bring this to an end, on the part of a whole raft of world leaders.

Of course: One could not be expected to know that if one's "news" sources are deficient.

But the bottom line, put simply, is this: Putin can't give up without a "victory" and Ukraine is disinclined to submit to being his bitch.

quote:

Originally posted by sdy:
I’m skeptical that “the Ukrainians” have the ability to intercept a Russian general’s call.

You do realize the U.S. and NATO have been training the hell out of Ukrainian forces and we've been giving or selling them a crap-ton of hardware since 2014, right?

quote:

I didn't expect Ukraine to hold out so long

Yes looks to me like Ukraine is not going down without a big fight. I got to give them that.

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:

quote:

Originally posted by Skins2881:

quote:

Originally posted by nhracecraft:
Has anyone else noticed the NOBODY is talking about how to bring about peace?

I saw someone make the comparison to the Israel situation recently.

That's not entirely inaccurate. but what the previous poster asserted is. There have been steady attempts to bring this to an end, on the part of a whole raft of world leaders.

A whole raft of world leaders? Got a list?

I hear lot's of condemnation of Russia, and 'we need to arm the Ukrainians'...Let's send them Javelins, Stingers & MIGs, and of course, lots of cheer leading for the Ukrainians as well.

Who are the diplomats and 'world leaders' that are focused on how to negotiate an end to the fighting/brokering a peace deal? From what I've seen, it's not even a talking point!


ETA - It would appear the President Erdoğan of Turkey 'may' be acting in the advancement of a negotiated cease fire, but he's certainly not part of any coordinated diplomatic effort. Of course, some efforts may be held confidentially until they're further along / potentially nearing concrete results, and certainly I get that, but the chorus from 'world leaders' stands in contrast.

I have Ukrainian ancestors (Great-Grandparents now deceased) that emigrated to the US so, believe me, I'm all for the Ukrainians and their fight for their country. That said, it just seems that the majority of 'actions' by world leaders are in the furtherance of the fighting, and not finding a path to peace in Ukraine.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: nhracecraft,

Russians attacking western Ukraine

https://www.foxnews.com/world/...t-in-western-ukraine

Russian troops launched an airstrike Friday morning that destroyed airplane and bus repair facilities near Lviv's international airport in western Ukraine, the city’s mayor said.

The mayor said the airplane facility was empty and there are no reported casualties so far.

The Russians launched six missiles from the Black Sea, two of which were shot down, according to the Ukrainian Air Force’s western command.

Last weekend, in nearby Yavoriv, nearly three dozen people were killed in a strike on a military training facility. Both cities are near the Polish border.

Lviv has so far been considered relatively safe compared to other areas in the country like the seaside city of Mariupol, which have borne the brunt of the majority of attacks since Russian President Vladimir Putin ordered the invasion late last month.

Lviv's population has swelled by some 200,000 as people from elsewhere in Ukraine have sought shelter there.

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:

quote:

Originally posted by Skins2881:

quote:

Originally posted by nhracecraft:
Has anyone else noticed the NOBODY is talking about how to bring about peace?

I saw someone make the comparison to the Israel situation recently.

That's not entirely inaccurate. but what the previous poster asserted is. There have been steady attempts to bring this to an end, on the part of a whole raft of world leaders.

Of course: One could not be expected to know that if one's "news" sources are deficient.

But the bottom line, put simply, is this: Putin can't give up without a "victory" and Ukraine is disinclined to submit to being his bitch.

quote:

Originally posted by sdy:
I’m skeptical that “the Ukrainians” have the ability to intercept a Russian general’s call.

You do realize the U.S. and NATO have been training the hell out of Ukrainian forces and we've been giving or selling them a crap-ton of hardware since 2014, right?

Ukraine is a corrupt but educated country. There are a lot of smart, educated people there.

As you're pointed out, they've been sparring with the Russians for many years now.

I would not discount the possibility that Ukrainian Intelligence have developed some pretty decent intelligence gathering techniques on their own.

Another factor here could be that Russian generals are attempting to lead from the front.

I've read this is just the way the Russian Army operates and I've read the Generals were brought in to "unfluck" Russia's offensive.

Either way, the Generals being killed seemed to be forward deployed and not in some command bunker in a safer rear area.

Opinion piece in The New York Times that states many of the things I have pointed out and believe about this situation. Yes, I’m one of those old guys who won’t actually have to go in harm’s way or otherwise be affected directly by more direct action against Putin’s criminal aggression, so discount my opinion if you want, but ignoring reality doesn’t change it.

====================================

Opinion
Bret Stephens

This Is How World War III Begins

The usual date given for the start of World War II is Sept. 1, 1939, when Hitler invaded Poland after the signing of the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact. But that was just one in a series of events that at the time could have seemed disconnected.

Among them: Japan’s invasion of Manchuria in 1931. Italy’s invasion of Abyssinia in 1935. The remilitarization of the Rhineland in 1936 and the Spanish Civil War, which started the same year. Anschluss with Austria and the Sudeten crisis of 1938. The Soviet invasion of Poland weeks after the German one and Germany’s western invasions the following year. Operation Barbarossa and Pearl Harbor in 1941.

The point is, World War II didn’t so much begin as it gathered, like water rising until it breaches a dam. We, too, have been living through years of rising waters, though it took Russia’s invasion of Ukraine for much of the world to notice.

Before the invasion, we had the Russian invasions of Georgia, Crimea and eastern Ukraine; the Russian carpet bombing of Aleppo; the use of exotic radioactive and chemical agents against Russian dissidents on British soil; Russian interference in U.S. elections and massive hacks of our computer networks; the murder of Boris Nemtsov and the blatant poisoning and imprisonment of Alexei Navalny.

Were any of these sovereignty violations, legal violations, treaty violations, war crimes and crimes against humanity met with a strong, united, punitive response that could have averted the next round of outrages? Did Western responses to other violations of global norms — Syria’s use of chemical weapons against civilians, Beijing’s eradication of Hong Kong’s autonomy, Iran’s war by proxy against its neighbors — give Vladimir Putin pause?

In short, did Putin have any reason to think, before Feb. 24, that he wouldn’t be able to get away with his invasion?

He didn’t. Contrary to the claim that Putin’s behavior is a result of Western provocation — like refusing to absolutely rule out eventual NATO membership for Ukraine — the West has mainly spent 22 years placating Putin through a long cycle of resets and wrist slaps. The devastation of Ukraine is the fruit of this appeasement.

The Biden administration now faces the question of whether it wants to bring this cycle to an end. The answer isn’t clear. Sanctions have hurt the Russian economy, arms shipments to Ukraine have helped to slow the Russian advance, and Russia’s brutality has unified NATO. This is to the president’s credit.

But the administration continues to operate under a series of potentially catastrophic illusions.

Sanctions may devastate Russia in the long term. But the immediate struggle in Ukraine is short term. Insofar as one of the main effects of sanctions has been to send tens of thousands of middle-class Russians into exile, they actually help Putin by weakening a potent base of political opposition. As for the oligarchs, they might have lost their yachts, but they’re not about to pick up their guns.

Arming Ukraine with Javelin and Stinger missiles has wounded and embarrassed the Russian military. Providing Kyiv with MIG-29 fighter jets and other potentially game-changing weapon systems could help turn the tide. Refusing to do so may only prolong Ukraine’s agony.

Frequent suggestions that Putin has already lost the war or that he can’t possibly win when Ukrainians are united in their hatred for him or that he’s looking for an offramp — and that we should be thinking up ingenious ways to provide him with one — may turn out to be right. But they are grossly premature. This war is only in its third week; it took the Nazis longer to conquer Poland. The ability to subdue a restive population is chiefly a function of the pain an occupier is willing to inflict. For a primer on that, look at what Putin did to Grozny in his first year in office.

Refusing to impose a no-fly zone in Ukraine may be justified because it exceeds the risks NATO countries are prepared to tolerate. But the idea that doing so could start World War III ignores history and telegraphs weakness. Americans squared off with Soviet pilots operating under Chinese or North Korean cover in the Korean War without blowing up the world. And our vocal aversion to confrontation is an invitation, not a deterrent, to Russian escalation.

There is now a serious risk that these illusions could collapse very suddenly. There’s little evidence so far that Putin is eager to cut his losses; on the contrary, to do so now — after incurring the economic price of sanctions but without achieving a clear victory — would jeopardize his grip on power.

Bottom line: Expect him to double down. If he uses chemical weapons, as Bashar al-Assad did, or deploys a battlefield nuclear weapon, in keeping with longstanding Russian military doctrine, does he lose more than he gains? The question answers itself. He wins swiftly. He terrifies the West. He consolidates power. He suffers consequences only marginally graver than the ones already inflicted. And his fellow travelers in Beijing, Tehran and Pyongyang take note.

How does the next world war begin? The same way the last one did.

LINK

I'm sick of this "WWIII" bullshit. A bunch of people talking out of their ass.

"WWIII" is going to end up as a trigger word in this forum. I am sick of this shit.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
I'm sick of this "WWIII" bullshit. A bunch of people talking out of their ass.

I don't read that as the author suggesting there will be WWIII, or even that it's likely. I read that as him noting the world's tepid responses to Putin's record of aggression are not unlike those that led to the two previous world wars.

E.g.: How is the west's virtual acceptance of Russia's annexation of Crimea substantially different from Chamberlain's appeasement of Nazi Germany in 1938? The world saw how well that worked.

He's not wrong, IMO. Further: His observations aren't unlike many of the criticisms of Biden's handling of Russia/Ukraine and Afghanistan, right here in SF.

You will find similar concerns expressed in one of cdr salamander's recent blog posts: Yes Ukraine and Russia - but the Varsity Game is China, albeit less alarmingly.

quote:

I’m skeptical that “the Ukrainians” have the ability to intercept a Russian general’s call.

Just about any jackass with a Femptocell / Stingray device can do it to a normal cellular call if they're closer to the caller than the nearest regular cellular Tower, and there were reports of the devices being used a week or two ago, as well as reports of the Russians using unsecured cellular for offical communications in some areas / operations. There are loads of Stingrays and other Femtocells around in .gov and .mil and international (and domestic LE) circles.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: 46and2,

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
I'm sick of this "WWIII" bullshit. A bunch of people talking out of their ass.

I don't read that as the author suggesting there will be WWIII, or even that it's likely.

The meaning of that article is irrelevant. I didn't even read it. I have simply seen that term thrown around in this forum, and all over news sites and the internet in general, to have finally had enough of hearing it. I am sick of it. People don't even know what "WWIII" would actually entail. A bunch of parrots squawking and shitting at the same time.

I posted earlier about Psaki saying:

"China's failure to denounce the Russian invasion of Ukraine "flies in the face of everything China stands for""

and sort of ridiculed her.

but now, maybe that statement was related to this:

https://hotair.com/ed-morrisse...inian-crisis-n456308

Chinese leader Xi Jinping said war is “in no one’s interest” during a phone call Friday with Joe Biden in which the US president aimed to pressure Beijing into joining Western condemnation of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine. …

State broadcaster CCTV reported Xi saying during the call that “state-to-state relations cannot go to the stage of military hostilities.”

China and the United States should “shoulder international responsibilities,” Xi was quoted as saying, as well as declaring that “peace and security are the most valued treasures of the international community.”

It was not immediately clear if Xi made any direct criticism of Russian President Vladimir Putin’s onslaught against Ukraine or expressed willingness to assist the US-led pressure campaign on the Kremlin.

The fact that the Xi regime has pushed that statement out through state media, as Reuters reporter Idrees Ali reports, while the call is in progress seems particularly noteworthy. Xi uses his state media the same as any dictator does — to prepare his subjects for whatever party line will be forthcoming, and for whatever “reality” they are supposed to embrace.

China’s television put out news of Russian atrocities in Ukraine.

"The message from China’s state media to Putin looks something like this: son, you’re on your own."

We can never trust China, but maybe Putin may not get the China backing he wanted.

So we had Rooftop Koreans in 1992, 30 years later we have Rooftop Ukrainians with 10,000 times the firepower!

It seems that every news media outlet is just a TV version of RISK.
Getting tired of the same old coverage.
Nothing else happening in the world?

quote:

Originally posted by smschulz:
It seems that every news media outlet is just a TV version of RISK.
Getting tired of the same old coverage.
Nothing else happening in the world?

Nothing that the Biden Administration would want you to know about.

flashguy