quote:

Originally posted by Tirod:
Since when is Russia treading in the footsteps of the Nazi's?

Let's see... When, like the Nazis in 1941, they invaded Ukraine and began slaughtering Ukrainian civilians.

quote:

Originally posted by Il Cattivo:

....

- Biden is clumsy enough to have originally thought this a courtesy to Ukraine - "we'll tell you no now so you aren't on pins and needles, but we won't say so publicly in order to save Ukraine the embarrassment or the appearance of being abandoned in the face of a threat." Mentioning it to China for deniable transmission to Putin would have seemed a relatively simple way to tell Putin that the US accepted that there was no prospect of getting Ukraine into NATO and thus calming Putin down.

- Biden is also clumsy enough to think that this was a way of extending a bit more protection to Ukraine - "Ukraine isn't in NATO, but it might as well be, so Russia is on notice that the US is committed to Ukrainian sovereignty". And, yes, Biden & Co are dumb enough to not realize that Putin might see this as a promise to sweep aside legalities and objections in order to get Ukraine into NATO just as Putin himself would cheerfully ignore legalities in order to get what he wanted.

pretty much agree

ie the quote 'Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence' comes to mind

-----------------------------------------

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:

quote:

Originally posted by Tirod:
Since when is Russia treading in the footsteps of the Nazi's?

Let's see... When, like the Wehrmacht, they invaded Ukraine and began massacring civilians?

one thing i read somewhere else -- and need to read more on -- is the term 'Nazi' used with reference to Ukraine -- isn't literal 'we worship Adolf Hitler / the Final Solution / concentration camps for Jews' type Nazis.

its basically a pejorative to describe 'extreme nationalists' on the other side. (the letter N in Nazi obviously referencing 'Nationalist')

so its kinda like calling someone a racist in the US. its tossed around so much the word really means whatever the accuser wants it to mean.

bottom line -- its complicated -- but Azov Nazis are not generally viewed as 'anti-Jew' Nazis depending on what you read:

https://www.jta.org/2022/03/04...putin-is-lying-about

Jewish Ukrainians gear up for fierce Russia fight, alongside the ‘neo-Nazis’ they say Putin is lying about

By Dinah Spritzer March 4, 2022 2:42 pm

(JTA) — Konstantyn Batozsky believes he is on a list of so-called “neo-Nazis” to be rounded up “Gestapo-style” and “exterminated” by Russian forces seeking to enter Kyiv.

Batozsky, a Jew from eastern Ukraine, said he was informed about the “bounty on his head” by Ukrainian intelligence sources. But as a longtime and avowed Ukrainian nationalist who has collaborated with an paramilitary group that has a reputation for including extremists, he knows that it’s people like him that Russian President Vladimir Putin was talking about when he cited a need for “denazification” as a pretext for invading his country.

“I have been staying underground away from my apartment where the Russians will try to find me,” Batozsky said from a makeshift bunker preparing for what appears to be an imminent invasion as bombs rained down outside the city center.

“I am happy that I’m alive,” he reflected, as he coordinated efforts to get much needed supplies to the Ukrainian army. “It now feels like every day could be the last.”

Initially cheerful in the early days of the war as the Ukrainians were surprisingly resilient against the much bigger Russian army, Batozsky now sounded more worried. And angry.

“The Russians are advancing and the West is not helping. Just words are not enough,” he lamented. Batozky pleaded for Western countries to intervene militarily.

Among those taking up arms for the first time as volunteers for the civilian army include Jews like Batozsky, who was passionately devoted to the Ukrainian national cause in his native Donetsk years before Russia decided to wage war on the entire country. He was a former advisor to the governor of Donetsk, Serhiy Taruta, now a member of the Ukrainian parliament.

Donetsk is one of two eastern regions where pro-Russian separatists, supported by the Russian military, clashed with the Ukrainian forces from 2014 to 2015. The simmering conflict was the precursor for the current Russian invasion as Donetsk and Luhansk declared independence, which is not recognized by Ukraine.

It might seem perplexing to observers in the United States and beyond that Jews would embrace Ukrainian nationalism, which some of its opponents — including Putin — say is tinged with antisemitism.

“There was definitely a Jewish memory of anti-Jewish pogroms conducted by Ukrainians,” said Sergiy Petukhov, Ukraine’s former deputy minister of European Integration whose mother and grandfather live in Israel. Also a native of Donetsk, Petukhov describes himself as a Ukrainian with Jewish ancestry, “like our current president,” he said, referring to Volodymyr Zelensky.

Ukraine’s history of antisemitism go far beyond pogroms. In their efforts to exterminate Jews, the Nazis were significantly aided by Ukrainians during World War II, according to several historians.

More recently, some of the initial paramilitary fighters against the Russian-backed takeover in Ukraine’s east, such as the Azov Battalion, were extremists and ultranationalists who displayed Nazi symbols.


“I know it’s hard for Jews abroad to understand, but these actions were intended as anti-Russian, not anti-Jewish,” Petukov said. “And when it comes to those supporting Ukrainian sovereignty and culture, this is really a tiny element.”

Now part of the national guard, the battalion of 900 to 1,500 members publicly claims to eschew all Nazi ideology.

Batozsky said he worked closely with the Azov Battalion during the 2014-15 conflict behind the scenes as a political consultant in Donetsk. It is this work, and his outspoken defense of Ukrainian efforts to defeat the separatists, that he says put him on the Russian hit list — and also that makes him confident that Russian charges of neo-Nazis in Ukraine are inaccurate.

“They were soccer hooligans and wanted attention, so yeah, I was shocked when I saw guys with swastika tattoos,” he said about the Azov members he got to know. “But I talked with them all the time about being Jewish and they had nothing negative to say. They had no anti-Jewish ideology.”

He insists that the image of Ukraine as a hotbed of antisemitism is absurd.

“I don’t practice, but still everyone knows I am Jewish — I have such a Jewish face! And I never experienced antisemitism from Ukrainians,” he insisted. “The military guys I am working with now really don’t care that I am a Jew.”

He does not have similar feelings towards his Russian neighbors. “I did have a Jew-hating Russian first-grade teacher who mockingly called my long hair payos,” recalled Batozky, using the Hebrew term for the long sidecurls kept by many Hasidic men. And he said he heard more slurs against Jews from Russians Moscow State University, which he attended in the 1990s, then he ever heard back home.

Daniel Kovzhun, a Jew from Kyiv who ran logistics during the war in Donetsk for paramilitary units, described a similar experience.

“There were Orthodox Jews in Azov,” he said. “I know because I was there on the battle lines. No one cared who was Jewish, we cared about keeping our country together.”

Like Batozsky, Kovzhun, who lived and studied in Israel before returning to Kyiv, has joined the newly formed civilian army in Kyiv, the Territorial Defense Forces — an overnight volunteer force that has attracted Jewish fighters across the country, and even from abroad.

A director of advertising commercials who says he has easily transitioned into directing “war communications,” Kovzhun believes many of the Jews in Ukraine are actively supporting the country’s defense.

“The Russians are committing atrocities here and Ukrainian Jews are not silent when injustice is going on. This is what being Jewish is all about,” he said.

Last week the Ukrainian government provided more than 20,000 guns of varying size and shape to ordinary civilians in the capital who have never fired a shot.

Among them is Batozsky, who has acquired a Kalashnikov, although he admits that he has “no experience shooting, assembling or disassembling a gun.”

In recent days, as Kyiv has come under siege, Batozsky has been working around the clock. “Together with friends we created a volunteer depot in a basement where we collect everything the soldiers need and distribute them,” he said.

Like many other Ukrainians interviewed by JTA in cities awaiting siege, Batozsky said public morale was very high.

“In terms of human relations, it is extraordinary. People are really caring towards one another. We all share whatever we have.”

He said the situation at shops reminded him of his Soviet childhood. “The stores are open but the shelves are mostly empty,” he said.

But as in Soviet times, residents’ ingenuity is providing succor.

“Women are mixing molotov cocktails and then they bake piroshki, small pies that can last a long time, and bring them to the soldiers. Small businesses deliver drinking water, pharmaceutical businesses are giving us medicine,” Batozsky said. “No one is sitting and doing nothing. The scariest place in Kyiv right now is at home with [a] laptop.”

-------------------------------------------------

BTW is someone trolling from forum to forum why I no longer post on two others? Is that according to the rules?

The first was years ago in a thread where those from alternative lifestyles were connected to a high rate of violence, and I remarked that both my daughter's nursing Pysch textbook stated it, and the DOD records when I was in the service reflected the same thing - with court martial rates as evidence.

It was removed and I was banned for hate speech. It is not - it is a fact. Check Kyle Rittenhouse's attackers.

The second was writing a post on how posters could write a better post. It was removed, too. It was based on an unfounded complaint I was trying to organize some kind of conversation to convince others of something. I might note that on a specific Gun Brand forum, what else are we here for? To organize a conversation that SIG's are great guns. Fans. Believers. Other blocks are bad, eeevil. In good fun of course, but of late we all do recognize that some things like sarcasm are difficult to communicate. Americans aren't as proficient in the use of our language beyond 280 characters anymore. And a lot are becoming aware that things aren't what they were taught. It causes a defensive reaction of denial against change, partly normal if facts are allowed to be considered.

Truth and literacy are two things I find short on gun forums. If the subject is raised in conversation, is only YOUR truth acceptable for discussion? I don't remember that being one of the guarantees in the Constitution.

We obviously have a disagreement over the issues in Ukrainistan. I would suggest that if distance and perspective over the conflict are lacking and only emotional attachment to the issues is the filter they are seen thru, then that's not a problem shared with all other posters. Some of us have endured much longer in life and on the net with a different perspective.

Take a list of the top things asserted at the beginning the conflict, and which were completely denied in the mainstream media, now they are not only being revealed by many other sources, they are part of the discussion daily.

There are bio labs, the UN is now discussing.
There are now Nazi's, and Zelensky now refuses to remove those organizations.

Seems that Russia's original "surrender" demands were legit on those two points. It's not wild speculation yet the mindset to keep defending subjects proven to be exactly the opposite is remarkable.

I still see people wearing masks in the stores, too. I don't, we get along, life goes on. I recognize the main stream media is a cesspool of lies, others only accept their version regardless of all others. Now that the Ukraine media is nationalized and only the States viewpoint can be communicated, I would suggest giving those sources closer examination - the same as our media, who was empowered by Obama when he had the Smith Mundt anti propaganda law rescinded in Congress and opened up the Budget to paying for propaganda to be inserted in ALL media.

Including the internet, and including forums. Not every post you read is authentic. With over 25,000 online and reaching back well before 2008, Im not only here as a live human being, I might have a clue what Im talking about.

Off to get two teeth pulled, it might be a bit hard to understand when I get back. MRvbrzert bewpnas berzenksy.

quote:

Truth and literacy are two things I find short on gun forums. If the subject is raised in conversation, is only YOUR truth acceptable for discussion? I don't remember that being one of the guarantees in the Constitution.

The fact that you are having this discussion on this forum undermines this statement.
I find that multiple opinions and points of view are acceptable and shared here.
Furthermore, the Constitution only guarantees your freedom of speech, not your "right" to be heard.

https://hotair.com/jazz-shaw/2...onic-missile-n457058

President Biden on Monday confirmed that Russia launched a hypersonic missile in Ukraine over the weekend and said that Russian President Vladimir Putin’s may launch cyberattacks against the US and use chemical weapons in Ukraine next because his “back is against the wall.”

Biden said Ukraine’s military is “wreaking havoc on the Russian military,” making Putin increasingly desperate in his nearly month-old invasion of Ukraine.

“The more his back is against the wall, the greater the severity of the tactics he may employ,” Biden warned at a Business Roundtable event after the White House earlier in the day implored US companies to enhance cyberdefenses.

Others are saying that even if Russia really did unleash a hypersonic missile, it was really just hype to advance Putin’s narrative rather than some dramatic escalation in a military sense

“It’s a bit of a head-scratcher to be honest with you,” a Pentagon official told NBC News on Monday. “If it’s true, why would you need a hypersonic missile fired from not that far away to hit a building?”

Military experts said the only reason Russian President Vladimir Putin would resort to using this kind of weaponry against the outgunned Ukrainians at this point would be to score propaganda points.

our intelligence sources believe that Russia doesn’t have very many of those missiles in stock yet. And they’re incredibly expensive to build, making it unlikely that more are rolling off the production line while the country’s economy is imploding and the ruble is basically worthless.

Also, it was a total waste of resources to use one of the Kinzhal missiles to take out a building. It’s a weapon that is designed to evade missile defense systems. And Ukraine has never really had any sort of advanced missile defense technology. On top of that, they only loaded it up with a conventional explosive that could have been carried by older missiles at a fraction of the price.

Putin was essentially trying to put on a show of strength, demonstrating to the world that he’s in charge of one of the most advanced military machines on the planet. But who exactly was he trying to impress?

Is this another sign that Putin’s judgment is faltering, leaving his grip on reality in question? Perhaps. But in yesterday’s statement, Joe Biden didn’t seem to have all that clear of a grasp on the picture either. He claimed that Russia “just launched their hypersonic missile because it’s the only thing that they can get through with absolute certainty.”

As already stated, there is almost no sort of missile defense system in place guarding Ukraine against conventional missile attacks. All of the shattered cities and civilian centers demonstrate this fact clearly. So it’s clearly not true that a hypersonic weapon is required to “get through with absolute certainty.” And it’s not as if they were sending a surgical strike to try to take out Zelenski. The target was an ammo dump.

quote:

Originally posted by Il Cattivo:

quote:

Originally posted by wcb6092:
Admission From Zelenskyy Highlights How Biden Administration Wanted To Provoke Russia To Invade Ukraine

https://theconservativetreehou...a-to-invade-ukraine/

Interesting article. They do warn you ahead of time, though, that how you interpret what you see can depend on the assumptions and perspective you choose.

quote:

Again, a critical frame of reference is needed to answer that question (why Biden & Co would want to provoke Putin into invading Ukraine): never ascribe to incompetence that which can be explained by intent.

It's perfectly reasonable to assume this was a screw-up rather than an evil master plan. No one in Biden's bunch has yet impressed us with their competence, in fact the opposite is true: there have been some pretty impressive cluster fucks

This administration, along with #44's, was never strong in the diplomatic circles. Both admins rolled-in with ideological dreams and was hit with reality, its not the model-UN. From drawing red-lines in Syria, proclamations about human rights, misreading the Arab Spring, the disaster in Benghazi, 're-opening' Cuba, to pleading with the Iranians to restart the JCPOA, the clumsy pull-out of Afghanistan, and now seeing Russia invade Ukraine.

The Dems, and a large portion of the State Dept aren't very good outside of cliquish cocktail gatherings where creating more bureaucracies can be discussed. And then there's the press that's supposed to cover and critique them but, instead are quite literally all married to one another. The amount of career press people married to prominent figures within the foreign think-tank world or, diplomatic corps is nauseating. It not a great mystery why 'these people', all went to the same schools, work for each other and think the same.

quote:

Originally posted by HayesGreener:
Biden and his crew are incapable of thoughtfulness or precision in anything they do other than ferret out an election. They are unable to craft a workable solution from information at hand because they don't look and listen. Focused on issues that are of interest to vertical minorities and not the overall prosperity of most Americans. They are timid, risk averse, and governed by their "feels" in the moment, and Biden's execution is invariably too little, too late, and ham fisted or just plain wrong. We are burdened with poor leadership and the world sees it. No matter what the outcome in Ukraine, the U.S. will share the blame for a perceived failure to dissuade Russia from the invasion. If NATO gets involved, we are in up to our ears, because NATO forces are ultimately commanded by an American General. It is a quandary and we do not have leadership at the top who is capable of solving it. As Secretary Gates once said of Biden, he is invariably wrong about international issues. He is consistent. We should not be in the shooting war in Ukraine, but America is being diminished by our failure to lead. I am embarrassed-something has to change. The mid-term elections are our first opportunity to stop these delusional idiots.

Spot on.

quote:

never ascribe to incompetence that which can be explained by intent

The more commonly repeated adage is quite the opposite: Never attribute to malice (malicious intent) what can be adequately explained by stupidity (incompetence).

And this administration has a whole lot of stupidity flying around.

quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:
I find that multiple opinions and points of view are acceptable and shared here.

I'm going to take that a step further. I actually appreciate the differing views and opinions shared on this forum. JALLEN, a member who passed away a few years ago and one that many likely remember, often offered contradictory views, not only to me, but others. His opinions were always well formed, intelligent, and presented respectfully, and offered many of us an opportunity to re-think our opinions/positions while considering a different viewpoint. I feel as though I am far better for the exchanges I had with JALLEN, and miss his input.

This place not being a rubber stamp on popular opinion(s), but instead, a place where members have strong and differing positions/opinions is what makes it a place I've enjoyed coming to for many years.

Now back to the thread topic...

This message has been edited. Last edited by: bigdeal,

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:
The more common repeated adage is quite the opposite: Never attribute to malice (malicious intent) what can be adequately explained by stupidity.

And this administration has a whole lot of stupidity flying around.

They actually have copious amounts of both. They are indeed incompetent, but they also clearly hate the country they are now in charge of governing. This is a rather dangerous recipe that has a high probability of leading to complete disaster for everyone.

quote:

Originally posted by bigdeal:

quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:
I find that multiple opinions and points of view are acceptable and shared here.

I'm going to take that a step further. I actually appreciate the differing views and opinions shared on this forum. ...

agree

it sometimes is a bruise to the ego to be 'confronted' by a well-spoken counter-view -- but IMO that is how knowledge is advanced

i like the phrase: 'if everyone is thinking the same than no one is truly thinking'.

basically my signature line -- we are sharpened by the sharp thinkers we interact with

--------------------------------

Interesting and quick video about Hypersonic weapons. It includes some conjecture about why Russia would use one of their missiles they way it was used in Ukraine:

https://youtu.be/s5Cj9oGkN8k

Short version: The Khinzal isn’t the sort of super-advanced systems that it is being lumped in with, and firing one in anger was possibly an advertisement to help promote foreign sales of the missiles.

- Bret

quote:

Originally posted by Tirod:
BTW is someone trolling from forum to forum why I no longer post on two others? Is that according to the rules?

The first was years ago in a thread where those from alternative lifestyles were connected to a high rate of violence, and I remarked that both my daughter's nursing Pysch textbook stated it, and the DOD records when I was in the service reflected the same thing - with court martial rates as evidence.

It was removed and I was banned for hate speech. It is not - it is a fact. Check Kyle Rittenhouse's attackers.

The second was writing a post on how posters could write a better post. It was removed, too. It was based on an unfounded complaint I was trying to organize some kind of conversation to convince others of something. I might note that on a specific Gun Brand forum, what else are we here for? To organize a conversation that SIG's are great guns. Fans. Believers. Other blocks are bad, eeevil. In good fun of course, but of late we all do recognize that some things like sarcasm are difficult to communicate. Americans aren't as proficient in the use of our language beyond 280 characters anymore. And a lot are becoming aware that things aren't what they were taught. It causes a defensive reaction of denial against change, partly normal if facts are allowed to be considered.

Truth and literacy are two things I find short on gun forums. If the subject is raised in conversation, is only YOUR truth acceptable for discussion? I don't remember that being one of the guarantees in the Constitution.

We obviously have a disagreement over the issues in Ukrainistan. I would suggest that if distance and perspective over the conflict are lacking and only emotional attachment to the issues is the filter they are seen thru, then that's not a problem shared with all other posters. Some of us have endured much longer in life and on the net with a different perspective.

Take a list of the top things asserted at the beginning the conflict, and which were completely denied in the mainstream media, now they are not only being revealed by many other sources, they are part of the discussion daily.

There are bio labs, the UN is now discussing.
There are now Nazi's, and Zelensky now refuses to remove those organizations.

Seems that Russia's original "surrender" demands were legit on those two points. It's not wild speculation yet the mindset to keep defending subjects proven to be exactly the opposite is remarkable.

I still see people wearing masks in the stores, too. I don't, we get along, life goes on. I recognize the main stream media is a cesspool of lies, others only accept their version regardless of all others. Now that the Ukraine media is nationalized and only the States viewpoint can be communicated, I would suggest giving those sources closer examination - the same as our media, who was empowered by Obama when he had the Smith Mundt anti propaganda law rescinded in Congress and opened up the Budget to paying for propaganda to be inserted in ALL media.

Including the internet, and including forums. Not every post you read is authentic. With over 25,000 online and reaching back well before 2008, Im not only here as a live human being, I might have a clue what Im talking about.

Off to get two teeth pulled, it might be a bit hard to understand when I get back. MRvbrzert bewpnas berzenksy.

TLR

Point 1) He's not banned on other forums because of his posts, but because those people are meanies.

Point 2) Couldn't figure out what exactly he was saying, maybe SIGs are good, Glocks are bad? Couldn't follow the ramblings very well.

Point 3) People on gun forums are illiterate and stupid which I assume he's including SF members.

Point 4) Something about Russia being justified and COVID masks with a mix of Obama/MSM conspiracy shit.

Dude stop posting while on drugs, your writing is unintelligible, you conspiracy theories are boring, and you still refuse to post a God damn link to anything.

You are the exact type of person that when then enter a room/party I find an excuse to need to leave. I haven't blocked you yet for two reasons. One I don't block people, two it's mildly amusing to see what shit you will spew next.

quote:

Originally posted by sdy:
https://hotair.com/jazz-shaw/2...onic-missile-n457058

President Biden on Monday confirmed that Russia launched a hypersonic missile in Ukraine over the weekend and said that Russian President Vladimir Putin’s may launch cyberattacks against the US and use chemical weapons in Ukraine next because his “back is against the wall.”

Remember how the World Economic Forum was involved in Event 201 before covid 19 was even unleashed on humanity. They have also been been rehearsing the impact of a large scale cyber attack.

quote:

President Biden on Monday confirmed that Russia launched a hypersonic missile in Ukraine over the weekend and said that Russian President Vladimir Putin’s may launch cyberattacks against the US and use chemical weapons in Ukraine next because his “back is against the wall.”

In the world we live in today, coupled with the complete lack of credibility of this administration, is there any reason whatsoever to believe this actually happened? Honest question.

quote:

Originally posted by wcb6092:

Remember how

All coincidental I'm sure

I really don't understand the hype over a single hypersonic missile shot. It's not a nuke - it was likely just a test launch.

Anybody remember the 'combat debut' of the F-117 stealth fighter? It wasn't Iraq - it was Panama. They bombed some piddly target that any other aircraft in theater coulda hit. It was done to justify the cost of the program, play it up to the public, and test it under ralistic conditions.

The Ruskies are likely doing the same thing. Now, they can put 'combat tested' on the sales brochure. . .

quote:

I really don't understand the hype over a single hypersonic missile shot.

I think it is partially because of the admission that both China and Russia (possibly NorK as well) are ahead on hypersonic missile development, while we're lagging way behind. Not to mention, as I understand it, there's no real defense system capable of hypersonic missile intercepts.
More along the lines of another "race" we're behind in.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/ne...ogy-deploy-nuke.html

"General David Thompson, the US Space Force's vice-chief of space operations, stated that the US was 'not as advanced' as China or Russia in hypersonic weapons.

He said: 'We have catching up to do very quickly. The Chinese have had an incredibly aggressive hypersonic programme for several years.'
"Earlier this week as he prepared to step down as vice-chair of the joint chiefs, General John Hyten voiced serious concern about the test.
He told CBS News: 'Sputnik created a sense of urgency in the United States. The test on July 27 did not create that sense of urgency. I think it probably should create a sense of urgency.'"

quote:

Originally posted by bigdeal:

quote:

President Biden on Monday confirmed that Russia launched a hypersonic missile in Ukraine over the weekend and said that Russian President Vladimir Putin’s may launch cyberattacks against the US and use chemical weapons in Ukraine next because his “back is against the wall.”

In the world we live in today, coupled with the complete lack of credibility of this administration, is there any reason whatsoever to believe this actually happened? Honest question.

The hypersonic missile? No. I posted the argument that it didn't happen at the bottom of page 64 of this thread.

Cyberattacks? Possibly - they've certainly happened in the past.

Chemical weapons? A plant in an area controlled by the Russians was found to be leaking ammonia recently, but no one in the free world seems to know where the leak came from.

Nazis? "Denazification" is universally understood as a euphemism for Putin's need to completely replace the Ukrainian government with one that will mindlessly obey Putin. See, for example, Putin's justifications for seizing Crimea and controlling Donetsk and Luhansk - and the resulting complete lack of arrested or executed "Nazis" that Putin has to show for it. Come to think of it, beyond the existence of the Azod battalion, no one has ever offered any evidence that nazis are present in any significant numbers in Ukraine.

Re: the Nazi thing.

In the U.S. they called Trump Hitler, the Proud Boys Nazis, even though Trump was the best friend to Isreal in decades and the Proud Boys were led by a black Cuban. They call capitalists and those who defend individual liberty "Fascists" while advocating more and more government corporatist control - which is by definition "Fascism".

Anything not far left is "Nazi". Anyone that is not far left is "Hitler". The anarcho-communist agitators say they are "anti-fascist" but they are really Bolsheviks. It all gets old really fast.

So any nationalist in Ukraine will be called a "Nazi". Yes Ukraine split in WWII and one half sided with the Germans and the other half with the Russians. Ukrainians joined the SS and did kill many jews. By conflating modern nationalists with the past history, they want to justify Putin's invasion to "free" ethnic Russian speakers from "Nazis". Nationalists that want Ukraine sovereignty have been fighting against pro-Russian forces in Donbas. Sounds like a civil war to me. We fought our own over separatists and kept the U.S. whole.

Sorry Vlad, the mid-20th century called and wants its cause back.