Para, thanks for that context. It's important to me to be as accurate as possible.

I've watched maybe three or four of his videos at most, so admittedly I don't know his positions as well as you do, but I've seen more than enough to know that I don't see any reason to watch any more.

Always amusing to see Leftists twist themselves into knots searching for moral ground to stand-on, meanwhile Rome burns in the background.

quote:

Originally posted by Sig209:
Russia's brazen attack killing women, children, innocent civilians and wholesale bombing any and ALL targets

The reporting sounds like it's coming from the palestinian news network reporting on Israeli atrocities. Bombing maternity wards, movie theaters and killing only women and children.

Remember this one? They hit it dead center.
"This is one of the ambulances in Lebanon bombed on purpose by Israel."



Oh- That's where the light was and it wasn't actually bombed by Israel.

quote:

Originally posted by Sig209:
blah blah blah these 'smart guy' videos all the say the same thing -- it's our fault / Ukraine is corrupt / Zelensky is a clown / Ukrainians are nazis blah blah blah

lets say ALL THAT IS TRUE. (it isn't but lets just say it is...)

does that -- in ANY WAY -- justify Russia's brazen attack killing women, children, innocent civilians and wholesale bombing any and ALL targets -- military and civilian to include hospitals, schools, malls, relief convoys, refuge corridors, etc??

in any way is that acceptable in a modern world ?

of course the answer is a resounding NO. so i have no sympathy for Russia and support Ukraine without reservation. Putin has proven he is a maniac and i hope Russia is bled dry.

---------------------------------

This right here. Nothing they have been accused thus far can't be handled with diplomacy. Not counting what Putin is doing to Ukrainians, what he's inflicting on his soldiers is unconscionable and he should be out office for that alone.

quote:

Originally posted by Sig209:
in any way is that acceptable in a modern world ?

Hmmmm, a modern world you say. The same world where atrocities are inflicted daily on people in Yemen? The same world where Syria has been in flames and atrocities inflicted on people there for years? A modern world where people are killed daily for their political/social views? I think you view this 'modern' world a bit more favorably than I do.

quote:

so i have no sympathy for Russia and support Ukraine without reservation. Putin has proven he is a maniac and i hope Russia is bled dry.

---------------------------------

Putin is not a maniac. That's a media creation for the weak to latch onto. Putin is focused and ruthless, a leader from another time, making most of todays 'modern' leaders totally confused in how to deal with him. And remember. Though it sounds lofty to condemn Russia and wish that country pain, wrecking their economy will have enormous impacts on not only the lives of millions inside Russia, but also to the world economy Russian is a part of. US and world leaders are little more than children walking the world economy down a path to ruin for 'everyone'. And assuming Ukraine does win this engagement with Russian after the US and others have dumped tens of billions into the effort, Ukraine will be destroyed and world economies will be looked to to help rebuild that country....all while people in some US cities show up in bread lines because they can't afford to feed their families because our 'leaders' fed their own egos supporting Ukraine while killing their own economies and people's futures.

This is a whole lot more involved and complicated issue than whether Russia is bad and Ukraine is good and whether we should be chin deep in it.

Be careful taking any of the mainstream media reports from Ukraine at face value, it's already been debunked that Zelensky was meeting dignitaries there when in fact he was in Warsaw Poland - in front of a green screen.

In other news, volunteers going there to Save Ukraine! have reported just taking a first aid class and owning a deer rifle back home will not get you front line work as a medic or sniper. Without training and field experience, the Ukraine army are basically babysitting kids with less knowledge than the average graduate of ANY military branch and have no real idea of what to do with them. They aren't getting weapons, equipment or gear issued, either. Many have reported having it taken away if they had it. Now, they have nothing and they will like it.

Some texted back home with pics of their location and it was bombed. They had the gps data on. These people are NOT ready for prime time.

In a new development, one of the J6 protesters who took a pic with the Horned protester has been ID'd as Ukrainian. He's been further ID'd as part of the Azov battation and it's now being suggested that they are on the payroll when violent protesters are needed HERE. Reports from Mariupol are rife with human rights violations being conducted by the AZOV's, not Russia.

Folks, the initial reports of this entire war were frequently false in the first weeks, and now, as more and more digging goes on, we are finding out what is really happening and who is doing it. Its time to start listening to subject matter knowledgeable people rather than the airheads in narration of the administration called "Journalists." They are not telling us anything that resembles the truth. Not even.

^^^ Sources?

quote:

Originally posted by BigSwede:
^^^ Sources?

they will be along shortly with some links to Alex Jones or similar troll site

disgusting the mental gymnastics some are going through to 'justify' Russia's behavior

there is no justification for the attack period.

-------------------------

quote:

Originally posted by corsair:
Always amusing to see Leftists twist themselves into knots searching for moral ground to stand-on, meanwhile Rome burns in the background.

whataboutism -- you are infected by it. Big Deal is also with his comments on Yemen and Syria.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

Edward Lucas's 2008 Economist article associated the tactic specifically with the Soviet Union, stating "Soviet propagandists during the cold war were trained in a tactic that their western interlocutors nicknamed 'whataboutism'. Any criticism of the Soviet Union (Afghanistan, martial law in Poland, imprisonment of dissidents, censorship) was met with a 'What about...' (apartheid South Africa, jailed trade-unionists, the Contras in Nicaragua, and so forth)." Lucas recommended two methods of properly countering whataboutism: to "use points made by Russian leaders themselves" so that they cannot be applied to the West, and for Western nations to engage in more self-criticism of their own media and government.[4]

basically another version of straw man -- an effort to change the topic at hand because you don't like the subject

and all the 'propaganda' nonsense is neither here nor there. it's easy enough to sift through. Russia does it. Ukraine does it. Its the psychological nature of warfare. the mere PRESENCE or USE of propaganda does NOT in any way de-legitimize Ukraine's right to survive (or excuse Russia's aggression).

the US Army has a Military Occupation Specialist (MOS) for PsyOps -- 37F.

https://www.goarmy.com/careers...ions-specialist.html

propaganda / information warfare is an integral facet of modern conflict. nothing surprising there.



-------------------------------

Israel vs Palestinians, Lebanese, Syria et al.

First, this issue in Ukraine has nothing to do with that.

Since someone broke trump out of play, understand that Israel responds with force anytime the three (and some) attack Israel. The paramilitary of FATAH/PLO or whatever "_______"jihad of the day from the areas of the so-called Palestinians, or Hezbollah or Iranians from both Lebanon/Syria, start slinging rockets, missiles, fire starting balloons, drones with explosives or whatever else they choose to use.

If you want a thread about Israel vs whomever, start one.

This one is not about that.

quote:

Originally posted by Tirod:
Be careful taking any of the mainstream media reports from Ukraine at face value, it's already been debunked that Zelensky was meeting dignitaries there when in fact he was in Warsaw Poland - in front of a green screen.

In other news, volunteers going there to Save Ukraine! have reported just taking a first aid class and owning a deer rifle back home will not get you front line work as a medic or sniper. Without training and field experience, the Ukraine army are basically babysitting kids with less knowledge than the average graduate of ANY military branch and have no real idea of what to do with them. They aren't getting weapons, equipment or gear issued, either. Many have reported having it taken away if they had it. Now, they have nothing and they will like it.

Some texted back home with pics of their location and it was bombed. They had the gps data on. These people are NOT ready for prime time.

In a new development, one of the J6 protesters who took a pic with the Horned protester has been ID'd as Ukrainian. He's been further ID'd as part of the Azov battation and it's now being suggested that they are on the payroll when violent protesters are needed HERE. Reports from Mariupol are rife with human rights violations being conducted by the AZOV's, not Russia.

Folks, the initial reports of this entire war were frequently false in the first weeks, and now, as more and more digging goes on, we are finding out what is really happening and who is doing it. Its time to start listening to subject matter knowledgeable people rather than the airheads in narration of the administration called "Journalists." They are not telling us anything that resembles the truth. Not even.

Just go away dude. Stop posting shit with no sources. It's a rule here, either follow the rule or don't post.

PS Costco has tinfoil on sale right now, the jumbo rolls will make many hats and still leave leftovers for making Faraday phone cages.

I guess Zelensky doesn't have to resources to lob some big bombs on the Kremlin, eh?
I imagine even if he did - a lot of the world would frown.

This is the shopping mall that got smoked




Is this the same building, at the end of this video? The Russkies claim to think so.

https://t.me/boris_rozhin/35004




Could be doctored though. It's hard to believe anything these days.

quote:

Originally posted by smschulz:
I guess Zelensky doesn't have to resources to lob some big bombs on the Kremlin, eh?
I imagine even if he did - a lot of the world would frown.

If he did, there's be a few air bases in Russia and maybe Belarus that had gone ka-boom - and the world wouldn't have a single problem with it.

quote:

Originally posted by Sig209:

quote:

Originally posted by corsair:
Always amusing to see Leftists twist themselves into knots searching for moral ground to stand-on, meanwhile Rome burns in the background.

whataboutism -- you are infected by it. Big Deal is also with his comments on Yemen and Syria.

My point was directed at the number of sound bites on Jimmy Dore segment. I should've included it in my quote.

quote:

Originally posted by Sig209:
whataboutism -- you are infected by it. Big Deal is also with his comments on Yemen and Syria.

That idiotic, leftist-manufactured term should never see the light of day in this forum. I will not allow it, ever. End of story.

Matter of fact, I just put it into the filter. Putting the non-word "whaboutism" into your post will get that post sent to the moderation queue, where I will delete it the nanosecond I see it -it won't ever reach the pages of this forum

Not havin' it. Ever.

Lazy people ask for sources or maybe they can't open a window and search themselves? It would be too traumatic to discover there are OTHER news sources other than the ones who tell them only the news thats fit to know?

https://theconservativetreehou...-opposition-parties/

While outlawing the other political parties, Zelensky failed to include Svoboda, a reputedly Neo Nazi group, nor did he include the Azov Battalion. This seems to fit with Ukraine's lack of support for the UN resolution last December against Nazi's in the world, and the US ALSO failed to support that resolution, too. They were the only ones who voted against it - 130 other nations and states did.

I guess we showed them.

Along with that link, read up on the nationalization of the Ukraine press, which is now State media. Like it or not. I think this is an honest approach, now we know any press release from Ukraine is state sponsored and propaganda. What is sad is that during the Obama Administration, the Smith Mundt act was canceled, which then authorized the American government to insert and pay for propaganda in our media. We were ahead of the curve a decade ago - yet Americans still trust the media and demand everyone bend a knee to it's infallible truth, referring only to it while all others are suspect.

How did that work during Covid?

When do some begin to realize they are being taken for a ride and do their own research instead of being fed by a manipulated press who is subservient to the Biden Administration - an Administration which has openly and on record voted to support not only Nazi groups but now, a Nation known for it's Nazi affiliations?

This isn't going away, it's getting more embarrassing for the US every news cycle. America supports Nazis in Ukraine. You good with that?

quote:

Lazy people ask for sources or maybe they can't open a window and search themselves?

Actually it is a RULE here. If you are going to post an article or a portion of an article, you need to post the source of it.