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Originally posted by PASig:

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Originally posted by Gustofer:
Here's the point: Russia has NO RIGHT, whatsoever to "annex" any country. Period.

What they have done is wrong legally and morally. Every effort must be taken to stop what they have done. Yeah, it's a lot of money, but it's worth it. I'd even go so far as sending "boots on the ground". Ivan cannot be allowed to do what he wants.

OK you first. No one is stopping you.

Do you have a son you can send as well?

You might be surprised, or maybe not, that when this whole shit show started, I did look into how I might be able to contribute to their war effort...be it medically or whatever. I was willing to give up my job and go overseas for this effort. Turns out, there's not much of a call for 58 year old out of shape guys in a war zone who don't speak the language.

Were I a younger fella, serving when I did (near when you did), I'd have been proud to go there and fight those commie bastards. I'm surprised that you don't feel the same way.

Right or wrong? What a simplistic view. We have no business there protecting their borders when the exact same people are erasing ours. Freedom is a concept long lost on Americans if it ever existed at all. This is about one world government and a Chinese model of control.

Faith is a funny thing. The left believes their ideas despite evidence to the contrary. The opposition is likewise blinded by their dogma and refuse to expand their understanding. Faith means never having to be proven wrong. Maybe that is all humans can really handle. We deserve the slavery that is coming

Any aid to Ukraine should be contingent on active peace negotiations. We're conducting a proxy war and contributing to human suffering...possibly even prolonging the whole debacle. The whole cold war mentality doesn't apply. Putin isn't going to roll tanks across Europe...that's preposterous. It's a regional dispute and a negotiated settlement would have already occurred if globalist hadn't rushed to pour trillions into Ukraine in the hopes of toppling the Putin regime.

Ukraine isn't worth spending one American cent, let alone life, on. There are no good guys and bad guys, just bad guys and worse guys. Sell them weapons on a cash-and-carry basis, maybe. They should be flush with cash.

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We have no business there protecting their borders when the exact same people are erasing ours.

Agreed. Funny how the left cares about borders all of a sudden. In addition, I have a problem taking this war seriously when its leader can take time out to interview with Vogue. You didn't see Winston Churchill doing that when his country was being bombed.

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Originally posted by bdylan:Putin isn't going to roll tanks across Europe...that's preposterous. It's a regional dispute...

Just so the record is clear, Putin IS rolling tanks across Europe. Right now. And one could readily argue that all major wars start as "regional disputes".

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Originally posted by prj:

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Originally posted by bdylan:Putin isn't going to roll tanks across Europe...that's preposterous. It's a regional dispute...

Just so the record is clear, Putin IS rolling tanks across Europe. Right now. And one could readily argue that all major wars start as "regional disputes".

That's hilarious and technically true. We're the country likely to make this more than a regional dispute.

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Ukraine isn't worth spending one American cent, let alone life, on. There are no good guys and bad guys, just bad guys and worse guys...

Yeah, I know it sounds harsh...
but that's the truth. It's not our problem.

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We have no business there protecting their borders when the exact same people are erasing ours.

OUR border IS our problem.

OUR government has lost sight of the purpose of the DEFENSE department. Defend the US. We are being invaded. Everyday.

^^^^^
JHC!!!!! chellim1 for Governor, President, Senator…hell…ANYTHING!!!!!

No American blood for Ukraine. No more weapons. No more cash.

Putin started the war. Period. He has stated that he wants to rebuild Russia and reclaim the territory it lost when the Soviet Union collapsed. He is a thug and a brutal dictator. He isn't invading to liberate Ukraine. He is doing it to claim the land and resources there. He wants his name to be remembered as one of Moscow's great leaders and have his name up there with Peter the Great or Joseph Stalin.

If we choose to ignore it, then what? We become like 19th Century USA? Even when we tried to stay out of European conflicts in the first half of the 20th Century, we were dragged into it. If we were to allow Putin to annex Ukraine, think he would stop there? And what lesson is China learning? If we decide that Ukraine can be thrown to the wolves because it isn't our problem, then what? China invades Taiwan? Really our problem? Or grabs some of the islands Japan owns off China's coast. Still not our problem?

Yes Biden is an idiot, but do we want the US to become know as an appeaser of a modern Hitler? I would rather back Biden on this issue than see the US turned into global coward that runs when things are difficult.

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Originally posted by oldbill123:
Right or wrong? What a simplistic view.

Ah, yes, its always simplistic when you're dead wrong. Here's the problem with that: the Ukrainians argue they're right because they didn't provoke anything and are defending themselves. The Russians have to make up a never-ending series of implausible excuses (NATO is encroaching rather than responding to nations' trying to join NATO on their own initiative, Ukraine and its Jewish President are all Nazis, Ukraine never actually existed so invading Ukraine and killing Ukrainians is no big deal). It's pretty damned obvious that the Ukrainians are right and the Russians are trying to justify the indefensible, so right and wrong is the correct measure of who we should support.

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We have no business there protecting their borders when the exact same people are erasing ours.

If ukrainians are rushing the border, it's because Putin invaded their country for no good reason. At the same time, it's kind of hard to blame the Ukrainians for our problems at the border when illegals are more likely to come from Latin America, the Middle East or Asia than any part of Europe.

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Freedom is a concept long lost on Americans if it ever existed at all. This is about one world government and a Chinese model of control.

That all sounds fine, heck, it even sounds stirring. What relationship does it have to our actual involvement in Ukraine, and how are the Ukrainians foisting one-world government on anyone by resisting Russia's imperialist and revanchist ambitions?

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Faith means never having to be proven wrong.

Indeed. Do you have anything to offer on the subject rather than your faith in isolationism when Russia launches an unprovoked attack on another country?

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Originally posted by chellim1:
Yeah, I know it sounds harsh...
but that's the truth. It's not our problem.

No, but the Russians have been for over one hundred years. If the Ukrainians are willing to fight for their own reasons, it makes plenty of sense to supply them in order to cripple Russian ambitions on the other side of the Atlantic.

That was what all those weapons we're giving them were made for anyway. It's just that the Ukrainians are willing to do the heavy lifting if we'll provide them the means.

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for over one hundred years. If the Ukrainians are willing to fight for their own reasons, it makes plenty of sense to supply them in order to cripple Russian ambitions on the other side of the Atlantic.

Looks like the Russians have become the biggest arms supplier to Ukraine now.
With all the troops retreating and leaving everything behind.


Looks like Ukraine has become a proving ground for our new weapons.
And we don't have to be the ones testing them.

Oh dear Lord

Are Brandon’s handlers now trying to push China into trying to invade Taiwan?

Looks like stuff requiring Chinese semiconductors (ie MOST EVERYTHING) is going to get even harder to buy now:


Every American executive and engineer working in China’s semiconductor manufacturing industry resigned yesterday, paralyzing Chinese manufacturing overnight. One round of sanctions from Biden did more damage than all four years of performative sanctioning under Trump.


"This Is What Annihilation Looks Like": Biden Export Controls 'Wreaking Havoc' On China's Chip Industry

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Originally posted by YooperSigs:
No American blood for Ukraine. No more weapons. No more cash.

Bears repeating; No American blood for Ukraine. No more weapons. No more cash.

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Originally posted by wishfull thinker:

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Originally posted by YooperSigs:
No American blood for Ukraine. No more weapons. No more cash.

Bears repeating; No American blood for Ukraine. No more weapons. No more cash.

I’m in this camp. It’s not our responsibility to save Ukraine from Russia. Not with money, not with arms and technology, and most especially not with American troops.

Believing that the people that have consistently lied to me for the last several years are now telling me the truth because it is what I want to hear ? This is a money laundering, political extortion operation that is being covered up with American money and Ukrainian/Russian blood. I do not support it in any way for any reason. I weakens this country. A mass killing of many across the globe. Destroys Europe and Germany stability and making a third world war much more likely for a country that is not an ally nor an interest.
Right vs wrong when all parties involved are wrong. Russia can have the borderlands. I care not
But you can believe what you want to. Critical thinking skills died long ago

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Originally posted by P220 Smudge:

Good job promoting American values. Tell nations that want to enjoy freedom and capitalism to fuck off and die when threatened by an evil neighbor. I'm sure more nations are going to want to be allies with us with that attitude. And if we were to need their help again in the future, and we told them to piss up a rope when they needed help... On your map it is easier to count the nations who DIDN'T help us after 9/11 than who did.

Plus we tried the stay out of other peoples trouble for the first 175 years of our existence. How did that work out?

You didn't have to quote the image for me to know who you were addressing.

Look, I'm not saying never help anyone. What I am saying is this one should squarely not be our problem. There's all kinds of things that make nations not want to be our allies beyond not just jumping up with an invasion force every time someone in the world has a conflict of any kind. If people are going to actually suggest in all seriousness that we need to send boots over to Ukraine, I'm going to come back with as equally a ridiculous a post. Fair?

There's a balance, and we haven't found it yet.