quote:

Originally posted by Nipper:

quote:

Originally posted by Fenris:

quote:

Originally posted by lmacrichter:
The one report I read where the upgraded model has been shot the new trigger is gritty and mushy which really would mess up what is a great trigger. I think it may be time to trade mine on a M&P 2.0 with night sights and be done with this Sig.

It's a little premature to draw any conclusion about how the new trigger will feel.

As you said it is going to be some time before most people get the upgrade. I'm sure there will be adjustments/refinements along the way.

Yes, a grand statistical sampling of one is not exactly definitive.

As I mentioned above, if there is a trigger quality issue, it is likely to be in the disconnector/lever chain. If so, even an unskilled amateur can easily perform a Flitz polish on the contact points. The decision tree on this is simple:

1) When returned, does YOUR P320 have a trigger quality issue? If not, end of "problem".

2) If yes, likely the disconnector/lever chain. Polish.

3) If still have issue, either (a) Sell pistol if unhappy (ugh) or (b) Follow the issue on SF and see if there is a remedy.

While not impossible, I'll presume for now that Sig wouldn't "upgrade" the pistol and turn one of the finest striker triggers into a POS. Besides, aren't the upgrades already present in the Mil-Spec pistols? Sig didn't invent a brand new fire control system for the upgrade, it already existed. If I'm incorrect in the prior statements, please feel free to politely correct.

Again, this is getting to be like sportscasters leading up to the Super Bowl endlessly analyzing who is going to win and why. I prefer to just wait and watch the game. We'll know at the end of the second half...

No sample. No statistic. Be patient, as Arc sez.

You'll all see.

-Bruce

Are you sleeping better at night now Bruce?

quote:

Originally posted by az4783054:
Are you sleeping better at night now Bruce?

How do you mean that, exactly?

quote:

Originally posted by arcwelder76:

quote:

Originally posted by az4783054:
Are you sleeping better at night now Bruce?

How do you mean that, exactly?

No disrespect intended. Things have quieted down significantly. Bruce and SIG have a plan to correct the issue.

quote:

Originally posted by arcwelder76:
Just to be sure, put my serial into the recall site, and it came back with:

"It seems your serial number is associated with SIG SAUER product specific to Law Enforcement, Government or International programs. Please refer to the FAQ for more information."

So, indeed no "upgrade" for pistols that shipped with a thumb safety.

Mine did the same thing Arc, but gave me a link to input my serial #/info at another page set up (apparently) for LEO/blue gun type purchases. Asks about where you purchased, whether it is an individual or department gun, etc. I entered my stuff, and "someone will contact me".

When is SIG going to get new guns with the upgrades into the supply channel?

I'm wondering if this issue, even if fixed, is going to mortally wound this model as far as new sales go.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: BBMW,

quote:

Originally posted by akcopnfbks:

quote:

Originally posted by arcwelder76:
Just to be sure, put my serial into the recall site, and it came back with:

"It seems your serial number is associated with SIG SAUER product specific to Law Enforcement, Government or International programs. Please refer to the FAQ for more information."

So, indeed no "upgrade" for pistols that shipped with a thumb safety.

Mine did the same thing Arc, but gave me a link to input my serial #/info at another page set up (apparently) for LEO/blue gun type purchases. Asks about where you purchased, whether it is an individual or department gun, etc. I entered my stuff, and "someone will contact me".

Not sure why you're quoting me from way back there, and as far as the website and what to do, please refer to the stickied thread at the top of the pistols area.

quote:

Originally posted by BBMW:
When is SIG going to get new guns with the upgrades into the supply channel.

I'm wondering if this issue, even if fixed, is going to mortally wound this model as far as new sales go.

Man, the bus has been by that stop already. Please get off, stop riding it around.

Why are some of you guys so down on SIG, and have you ever experienced a recall before? Adjust your sets, the transmissions you're receiving must be different than most people.

Past "fixes" or whatever you'd like to call them, have already been touched on in this thread. These parts adjustments didn't slow down a number of major companies, including SIG in the past.

Think of a major brand or type of pistol, that you trust the safety and reliability of. Do you believe it was like that right out of the gate? Very few weapons survive in the wild in their originally conceived form. This is a speedbump, not a dead end.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by arcwelder76

Not sure why you're quoting me from way back there, and as far as the website and what to do, please refer to the stickied thread at the top of the pistols area. [QUOTE]

Sorry about that! I've been reading like mad for a few days trying to catch up on the post instead of jumping in at the end of it.

I'd love to speculate, but, unfortunately, I don't have a speculum.

I remember how SIG FUBARed a competition for some fed agency''s pistol competition with the P250, and it essentially killed the gun in the market. I was never a major player after that.

Perception IS reality in these types of situations.

quote:

Originally posted by arcwelder76:

quote:

Originally posted by BBMW:
When is SIG going to get new guns with the upgrades into the supply channel.

I'm wondering if this issue, even if fixed, is going to mortally wound this model as far as new sales go.

Man, the bus has been by that stop already. Please get off, stop riding it around.

Why are some of you guys so down on SIG, and have you ever experienced a recall before? Adjust your sets, the transmissions you're receiving must be different than most people.

Past "fixes" or whatever you'd like to call them, have already been touched on in this thread. These parts adjustments didn't slow down a number of major companies, including SIG in the past.

Think of a major brand or type of pistol, that you trust the safety and reliability of. Do you believe it was like that right out of the gate? Very few weapons survive in the wild in their originally conceived form. This is a speedbump, not a dead end.

quote:

Originally posted by BBMW:
When is SIG going to get new guns with the upgrades into the supply channel?

I'm wondering if this issue, even if fixed, is going to mortally wound this model as far as new sales go.

Why would anyone think it would?

Prediction: Once the shooting public actually handles and shoots the new mechanism, P320 sales will increase dramatically from their previous level.

You'll soon be able to see for yourself if my prediction holds true. I wish my faith permitted wagering. With all the breathlessly negative speculation so disconnected from reality, I'd clean the house.

-Bruce

quote:

Originally posted by BBMW:
I remember how SIG FUBARed a competition for some fed agency''s pistol competition with the P250, and it essentially killed the gun in the market. I was never a major player after that.

Perception IS reality in these types of situations.

Hear me now, and understand me later.

I'm not sure if you own or have shot a P320, or whether you have absorbed the differences between the pistols, their development, and market presence as a whole. That was then, this is now. Where the P250 was between commercial and government contracts, and where the P320 is, are not the same.

Here on SigForum, we have lots of members who don't own SIG products, for whatever reason. Maybe the guns don't fit them, maybe it's some other reason. Perhaps some how in some way they don't like SIG. Being a SIG loyalist is not a requirement for membership here, but relentlessly clinging to your perceptions regardless of what anyone else has to say, gets tiresome and this thread is pushing 80 pages.

"Perception is reality" is not an ironclad defense of a rational argument. It is a rationalization of personal feelings, only. You're more than welcome to nurse some sort of negativity towards SIG, and occasionally express it. But you need to acknowledge that doing it on page 78 of this thread, is at best a bore.

At worst, if you and others are just going to be willful Eeyores about SIG, people will begin to ignore you and you may get asked to simple stay out of certain threads in the future. This is because your personal perception is apparently so closely held as to be unchanging, and even though it's not our style to drum out people who aren't SIG fans, The place is called SigForum, after all.

Participate in discussions, say your piece, but know this. Simply saying "What if it fails" as a response after just about any reply gets really dull, particularly if that cycle is repeated multiple times.

If what I'm saying isn't clear, let me put it another way. The wailing and gnashing of teeth, the hurting of the butt in this thread, has been well and thoroughly exercised. Every aspect of this issue has been gone over like the NTSB at a trainwreck.

You are more than welcome to believe or perceive that SIG will fuck this up, and the P320 will fail. Clearly you won't be dissuaded from this premonition. We will examine any future developments, as they occur. If they are mistakes, we shall react accordingly, and if they are successes, we shall also react accordingly.

What you need to do now, is let the issue rest, and allow some optimism to stand, among people who own the product and feel differently about it and the company than you do.

I recently moved to Ecuador and have not checked-in. It will take me a long while to catch-up on just this one thread . . . or not!
WOW

quote:

Originally posted by Grayguns:

quote:

Originally posted by BBMW:
When is SIG going to get new guns with the upgrades into the supply channel?

I'm wondering if this issue, even if fixed, is going to mortally wound this model as far as new sales go.

Why would anyone think it would?

Prediction: Once the shooting public actually handles and shoots the new mechanism, P320 sales will increase dramatically from their previous level.

You'll soon be able to see for yourself if my prediction holds true. I wish my faith permitted wagering. With all the breathlessly negative speculation so disconnected from reality, I'd clean the house.

-Bruce

Bruce,

Every time I start getting down on this pistol, I take it out and remember how good it feels in the hand. I'm looking forward to the fix and how it shoots.

I regret putting down the description of how the guys felt earlier. It's an early model, and it was brand spanking new and never fired. A lot of pistols don't have great target triggers right out of the factory. I look forward to seeing how it is when I actually get mine back in my hands, and put a few hundred rounds through it.

And to be clear, I'm not a fan boy. At least of this pistol… I've carried blocks and shot blocks for over 25 years. I love the platform and I'm still a fan. However the P320 has been a very nice surprise.

quote:

Originally posted by arcwelder76:

Why are some of you guys so down on SIG, and have you ever experienced a recall before? Adjust your sets, the transmissions you're receiving must be different than most people.

Past "fixes" or whatever you'd like to call them, have already been touched on in this thread. These parts adjustments didn't slow down a number of major companies, including SIG in the past.

Think of a major brand or type of pistol, that you trust the safety and reliability of. Do you believe it was like that right out of the gate? Very few weapons survive in the wild in their originally conceived form. This is a speedbump, not a dead end.

Arc, I don't think the critics here want to be "down" on Sig, but some of us were just disappointed with the speed and veracity that Sig chose to get out in front of this. Recalls are nothing new or surprising, but if you know you need to issue a recall, then stand up and do it before the problems get ahead of you.

quote:

Originally posted by ether:
Arc, I don't think the critics here want to be "down" on Sig, but some of us were just disappointed with the speed and veracity that Sig chose to get out in front of this. Recalls are nothing new or surprising, but if you know you need to issue a recall, then stand up and do it before the problems get ahead of you.

It's crystal clear that some people DO want to be down on SIG. They can have it, but this thread is growing long in the teeth.

Some 78 pages is more than enough time to work through all of this. I'm not saying you aren't allowed to feel disappointed, but the nuance behind that disappointment is not relevant.

Listen, it's time to put the big boy pants on, and stop hanging on to this "disappointment" like it's your fucking baby.

Some people were disappointed? Uh, was anyone thrilled about this? I can't say that I buy a new gun hoping they need to fix something.

Your pointing out that some people are disappointed, is another facet already covered at length. We don't need to discuss it again. I recommend simply reading the thread again, if you'd like another go round.

There has been some talk about big boy pants, and Sig found theirs late...but they finally did...I'm one who's hoping they handle this well enough to turn this issue into a non-issue.

quote:

Originally posted by arcwelder76:
You are more than welcome to believe or perceive that SIG will fuck this up, and the P320 will fail. Clearly you won't be dissuaded from this premonition. ....

What you need to do now, is let the issue rest, and allow some optimism to stand, among people who own the product and feel differently about it and the company than you do.

I'm not saying the member to which that was part of the reply falls into this group, but clearly some of the voices in this thread, and elsewhere on the 'net, hope Sig and the P320 will go down in flames. Perhaps they were once wronged by Sig--or felt they were. Perhaps they're die-hard fans of another manufacturer, despite hanging out in SigForum.

In any event: I don't think these nattering nabobs of negativity are overly-affecting those who truly like Sig and Sig firearms. I know they certainly aren't influencing my attitude.

I finally acquired from my buddy the "threaded rod" needed to remove the compensator from the P229S he gifted me, so I was finally able to strip the thing down for a good CLP flush, wipe-down and lube. Boy, what nice piece of work is that pistol! I don't believe for a heartbeat the company that built that is going to drop the ball on this.

Later this week that P229S and my P320F are going to the range

quote:

Originally posted by ether:

quote:

Originally posted by arcwelder76:

Why are some of you guys so down on SIG, and have you ever experienced a recall before? Adjust your sets, the transmissions you're receiving must be different than most people.

Past "fixes" or whatever you'd like to call them, have already been touched on in this thread. These parts adjustments didn't slow down a number of major companies, including SIG in the past.

Think of a major brand or type of pistol, that you trust the safety and reliability of. Do you believe it was like that right out of the gate? Very few weapons survive in the wild in their originally conceived form. This is a speedbump, not a dead end.

Arc, I don't think the critics here want to be "down" on Sig, but some of us were just disappointed with the speed and veracity that Sig chose to get out in front of this. Recalls are nothing new or surprising, but if you know you need to issue a recall, then stand up and do it before the problems get ahead of you.

I can tell you what left a bad taste in MY mouth.

August 6th-7th, Sig is telling us there is no issue, the guns are 100% drop safe. There has never been a case of a dropped P320 discharging. blah blah

August 8th: Sig acknowledges the issue, says "Oh yeah we just happen to have a fix for it", no guns are drop safe, and oh and BTW we are being sued by a cop for this very issue as we speak.

To me the whole thing just wasn't kosher to me. Within 24 hours, they went from claiming to be unaware of the issue, to being 100% sure that an unrelated design change made for MHS HAPPENS to solve the drop issue.

There is no question that they are doing the right thing now, and kudos to them. I still can't help but feel like they tried their best to sweep the whole issue under the rug, until the internet got ahold of it. Had they issued the voluntary upgrade prior to the Omaha videos, this whole thing would have been a non-issue... just like literally every other recall. (see Canik's current recall for example)

PS. I love SIGs and happen to think the P320 is the most innovative firearms design in 30+ years.

Lordhamster, you don't need to further explain what you've been on about for the length of this thread.

It's time to let it go.