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I have a couple of XD's and I've heard a lot of poo pooing of the grip safety over the years in a XD polymer gun and how it wasn't needed. I sometimes wondered why Springfield went that route too. Hmmmm... maybe HS/Springfield decided (after extensive drop testing) they need that extra measure for a pre-cocked striker fired gun. That along with the tabbed trigger may make for the safest gun to drop at any angle or if it locks up to beat someone over the head with.  Joe Back in Tx. | |||
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Interesting thought. ********************** 53 Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Read Quod Apostolici Muneris (1878) LEO XIII. This Pope warned us about the Socialists before most folks knew what a Socialist was... | |||
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Actually, it is a safety issue. Did you miss this part of the announcement?
Now that being said, it appears that Ruger is determined to get out in front of it, and my hat is off to them. ------------------------------ "They who would give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin "So this is how liberty dies; with thunderous applause." - Senator Amidala (Star Wars III: Revenge of the Sith) | |||
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Bruce Gray does not need anyone to defend him. However. I've met the man. Spent five days with him at MOAC. I found him to be an exceptional person. He was happy to discuss sigs and lit up when I told him I had an early P320 with a high round count. He immediately took my gun and broke it down. Inspecting it and offered to upgrade the bruce gray trigger already in it. He struck me as a solid guy and deserves the benefit of the doubt on this situation. NRA Training Counselor NRA Benefactor Member | |||
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Yep, I must have missed that part. Mea culpa; all previous comments on the topic redacted. | |||
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Springfield didnt. The croatians did. | |||
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| Go ahead punk, make my day |
Apex Tactical erring on the side of caution. http://www.apextactical.com/bl...20-trigger-products/ Apex Customer Advisory Regarding Sig Sauer P320 Trigger Products Due to Sig Sauer’s recently announced “voluntary upgrade” of the Sig Sauer P320 pistol, announced on August 8, 2017, Apex Tactical Specialties, out of an abundance of caution, has chosen until further notice to suspend sales of those aftermarket trigger products specifically designed for use in the Sig Sauer P320. Additionally, for those customers that have purchased an Apex Curved Advanced Trigger, part# 112-022, due to how closely the Curved Advanced Trigger’s design reflects that of the current Sig Sauer stock factory trigger, we are asking customers to stop using this trigger and to please contact Apex Customer Service at (623) 322-0200 or Guns@ApexTactical.com to return the trigger in exchange for credit towards any one of our Apex products. Regarding the Apex Flat Advanced Trigger, part# 112-021, and the Apex Flat-Faced Action Enhancement Trigger, part# 112-020, Apex engineers have conducted controlled drop tests at the -30 degree angle with each of these flat triggers and have not had a discharge occur. HOWEVER, because this is too small a sample, and due to the fact that Sig Sauer has indicated that its voluntary upgrade will include more than just the trigger, we advise caution and warn against accepting use of either of these two Apex triggers as solutions to the factory drop safe issue. They Are Not. If you own and have installed an Apex aftermarket trigger for your P320, and in light of the recent announcement from Sig Sauer you feel it is unsafe to use, please discontinue using or carrying your pistol immediately. Below we outline what steps to take based on which model of Apex trigger you own and when and where it was purchased. For the Curved Advanced Trigger (part# 112-022): 1) Remove from service immediately and contact Customer Service at (623) 322-0200 or Guns@ApexTactical.com to exchange for credit. For the Flat Advanced Trigger (part# 112-021): 1) If purchased from Apex within the last 30 days, contact Apex Customer Service at (623) 322-0200 or Guns@ApexTactical.com for an RMA and refund, or credit towards another Apex product. 2) If purchased from a retail source other than Apex, or purchased from Apex more than 30 days ago, contact Apex Customer Service at (623) 322-0200 or Guns@ApexTactical.com for an RMA and credit towards another Apex product. Flat-Faced Action Enhancement Trigger (Part# 112-020): 1) If purchased from Apex within the last 30 days, contact Apex Customer Service at (623) 322-0200 or Guns@ApexTactical.com for an RMA and refund, or credit towards another Apex product. 2) If purchased from a retail source other than Apex, or purchased from Apex more than 30 days ago, contact Apex Customer Service at (623) 322-0200 or Guns@ApexTactical.com for an RMA and credit towards another Apex product. Notice To Dealers Dealers who have stock of unsold Apex triggers for the Sig Sauer P320 (SKU# 112-020, 112-021 or 112-022) may contact Apex’s Dealer Sales Manager at Dealer@ApexTactical.com and request a return for credit of the product they have on hand. Any product returned to our Dealers and Distributors for refund may be subsequently returned to Apex for a refund in the form of a credit as well. Thank You for Your Patience As a leading designer, developer and manufacturer of aftermarket products for firearms, Apex strives to produce products that are beneficial to the end user and improve function, while maintaining or enhancing factory safety values. With the latest release of information from Sig Sauer, we have chosen to discontinue the sale of our P320 aftermarket triggers until such time as we can thoroughly test our products with the latest Sig Sauer upgrades for the P320. We hope that will be sooner rather than later, but it could take some time for us to receive the necessary factory upgrades for our R&D P320 pistols. We appreciate your understanding, and especially your patience, in the matter. ~ Apex Tactical Specialties | |||
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Well, if we're splitting hairs HS stole it from JB. Joe Back in Tx. | |||
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RX-79G, you are very observant,just like Columbo. Thats a compliment by the way. | |||
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| Banned |
Just to be clear, Springfield isn't making a gun like the HS2000, they are importing the Croatian HS2000 as the XD. HS and Springfield caught some skepticism for putting out a SA gun at the time, but the grip safety helped. Paving the way for the PPQ which is SA without a grip safety, then the P320 that has no long take up or grip safety. | |||
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My question is can sig and specifically the P320 model recover from this incident? I love my P320 and consider it premier but sales will definitely take a hit for a while. The only thing going for Sig again is the military contract. I always considered the P320 up there with the PPQ, VP9, Glock, XD line but now I fear it may take a hit. Hopefully P320's will be even less expensive! | |||
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For me, I'm about done with it. First, I can't stand the trigger. I just don't like it. Have no idea where all the "it's great, better than a Glock" came from. And I will shoot anything. Heck, I LIKE the P250!! Second, the thing looks chincy inside. I know that's not a technical reason to critique it, but the guts of the thing in functioning feel cheap. Looking at the guts, I think they are going to have problems with it in service. I just do. We'll see if I'm right, but turn this thing loose on Private Snuffy and let's see how it stands up. I haven't had a feeling like this about a pistol in ages. I have a fullsize, and prefer the P250 in many ways. Only thing I really like about it is its capacity with 21 shot magazines. I have a felt need for them during my winter treks and was pretty happy they became available. But aside from the fantastic ergonomics, that is, feel in the hand, there is something about this gun that has had me nervous, uninspired and unconfident from the start. We'll see. ********************** 53 Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Read Quod Apostolici Muneris (1878) LEO XIII. This Pope warned us about the Socialists before most folks knew what a Socialist was... | |||
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Yeah I'm in agreement on most points. I had 2, both we're FTExt failures. Manufacturing tolerances are excessive and QA has been poor @ SIg for some time. Liked the grip at first, but it's no P30 or even an APX. The P250 which I liked I gave to my daughter, thinking I'd like the P320 better. Glad she got the better pistol. Trigger is terrible and had horrible trigger slap. This may have been a precursor to the drop testing failures, and the PPQ had a bad trigger slap as well. I said it a long time ago and I'll say it again, I think it was the wrong choice for the M17. The APX is better designed pistol and the Glock just has that long and solid history and reputation. Both are better guns IMO. My experience with other recent sig products like the MCX/MPX has also been less than stellar. I've seen P320s selling in the mid 600's and when you can get a APX for 450 and change, I don't see the draw. Joe Back in Tx. | |||
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| Vote the BASTIDS OUT!  |
I have the enhanced curved APEX trigger installed in my 320. I found it difficult to reinstall that pesky trigger spring when doing the upgrade and have no desire to remove it just to get a credit at APEX for a future buy. I'll keep the gun as is and enjoy it. I may or may not send it back to Sig for their fix of the drop problem. I'm in MA and have the thumb safety so that solves half of the problem already. John "Building a wall will violate the rights of millions of illegals." [Nancy Pelosi] | |||
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Agreed. Bruce had my respect before I met him. Far more so after. | |||
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| Go ahead punk, make my day |
Yeah, I was just passing on information for anyone who might not have seen their press release. | |||
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| Peace through superior firepower  |
Bruce Gray is not a liar and he has not attempted to deceive anyone. Bruce has a passion for firearms and the shooting sports and he's as sincere as they come. Through all his years here, I've lost count of the number of times where Bruce stepped in to assist forum members. He's had members send him their pistols and worked on these guns free of charge. To call this kind of thing exceptional behavior is putting it mildly. ____________________________________________________ "I am your retribution." - Donald Trump, speech at CPAC, March 4, 2023 | |||
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Indeed, this debacle is not Bruce Gray's fault. ********************** 53 Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Read Quod Apostolici Muneris (1878) LEO XIII. This Pope warned us about the Socialists before most folks knew what a Socialist was... | |||
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I've worked in the industrial hvac / automation world for the last 35 years, and can't afford to use defective tools. A firearm is a tool, albeit for a different application but a tool nonetheless. I don't believe that a cost to the customer to repair a defective P320 would be positive though. My last gunsmithing interaction had been with TJ Custom & Weigand Combat so I guess I'm dating myself a bit, but haven't seen anything with Grayguns at all that would compel me to not give him the full benefit of the doubt while the situation with the factory processes a bit more. <>< America, Land of the Free - because of the Brave | |||
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Nullus Anxietas |
I'm confident Sig will. Heck, look at the EOTech snafu, and they're still turning out HWS'. Mistakes happen. Some are more egregious than others. Bottom line is how the manufacturer or seller addresses them.
I don't know about "premier." The Sig P229S I was recently gifted: Now that's premier. But the P320 is, IMO, a decent utility pistol. I like mine. It shoots well for me. I'm hoping the upgrade can address the safety concern w/o destroying the really nice trigger it's got. Until then I'll endeavour to avoid dropping it just so. "America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system,,,, but too early to shoot the bastards." -- Claire Wolfe "If we let things terrify us, life will not be worth living." -- Seneca the Younger, Roman Stoic philosopher | |||
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