If you're wondering where the P320 is going, keep in mind they still have a contract with the military.

The gun isn't going anywhere, and in a years time this will be in your memory just like "hiccups" from other pistols. How many do you remember?

The reason you can't think of them is that they don't really make a difference if the pistol itself is worthy. But also, with the evolution of the internet and social media, what would have not been a big deal, got blown ridiculously out of proportion.

It would seem that what should be in order is a revision of how pistols are drop-tested for government or any other contract. Considering that the pistol is drop safe under established testing conditions such that they can call it a "voluntary" upgrade.

Also, this hubbub is just a tempest in a teacup for people who are interested in firearms. For it to reach the mass of being reported on cable news or anything of that scale, it would have had to have been an actual crisis of numerous injuries or deaths.

Considering the timeline of a fix being engineered and implemented, I'd say it's been extremely fast. The matter of actually processing all the units, as far as shipping and labor, that'll take time but will happen.

If this is your first significant recall, don't worry, it won't be the last. This is just a part of owning firearms. I'm glad that the fix is free. If it wasn't, then there would be actually something to be upset about.

If you think "Oh, but a major firearms manufacturer shouldn't have something like this happen to a product," you're not aware of the past. If you believe that other companies have put out flawless pistols, you'll understand what I mean about the P320 a year from now.

quote:

Originally posted by arcwelder76:


If this is your first significant recall, don't worry, it won't be the last. This is just a part of owning firearms. I'm glad that the fix is free. If it wasn't, then there would be actually something to be upset about.

But it isn't free, my time isn't free so it costs me the time to register it, find a box then box it up, then drive 30 miles to the FedEx to ship, then drive 30 miles home, then take the day's time to be home when it finally ships back.

Plus do without the gun for who knows how long. This sounds free but the gun costs a fixed amount of money so there is cost figure per day of lost ownership.

At least Smith sent me a free magazine on my Bodyguard send in (2 week turn around time), Ruger sent me a free magazine & nice zip case on my early LCP recall/replacement (2 week time frame), Springfield sent me a free extended mag and a nice lined carry case on that recall (just 8 days total turnaround time), Ruger just sent me 2 new free mags on my Mark 4 recall send-in's, plus sent a ship-back box to my house (under 3 weeks for both).

Sig?, I can't even get total time frame information or even a send in date.

quote:

Originally posted by JonTy:

Sig?, I can't even get total time frame information or even a send in date.

Ummmm, because they're not ready yet?

They've been explicit: they'll start bringing the guns back when they are set up to handle it.

Would you honestly rather have them take back 10s of thousands of guns to have them languish on a shelf in a huge backlog (not to mention eat up warehouse space) while they sort out the logistics of the fix itself?

At least you can keep your gun and use it (that is, if you're not paranoid like some seem to be) rather than losing it for months on end.

Honestly, some of the shit I've read and keep reading in this thread is just ludicrous.

quote:

Originally posted by JonTy:
Sig?, I can't even get total time frame information or even a send in date.

Fer the love of God. They're just working out how they're going to upgrade 100s of thousands of pistols. They probably don't even have everything in place, much less having even the first customer gun scheduled.

You're right about one thing, though: Dropping a free mag in with the returns might accomplish two things: Assuage customers' annoyance and possibly persuade more to take advantage of the "upgrade."

quote:

Originally posted by Oat_Action_Man:
Honestly, some of the shit I've read and keep reading in this thread is just ludicrous.

+1

quote:

Originally posted by Ofc.JR:
As far as Dealers not selling 320's? Liability! If a dealer sold a gun knowing it could drop fire, he might very well be liable along w/ the manufacture. Maybe, I really do not know the case Law. I think that is part of the reason SIG put out the recall as "Voluntary", not mandatory.
I still say that all the 320 needs is a trigger safety like a Glock, and they are fixed. Why SIG did not go that route as it would have been a much cheaper fix(drop in part) is beyond me. SIG chose to lighten up the trigger fire control train, and while that works, it's only a treatment for the condition, not a cure for the disease. Drop a new refit 320 from a 15' height and I bet it will fire. Of course, so will a 70 series 1911, if it impacts on the muzzle. Anyhow, I will wait on sending mine in for a while. I hope someone develops a trigger safety for the 320, that's all it needs, IMHO.

Several years ago SIG offered a "tabbed safety trigger for specific law enforcement clients".
Perhaps you can order one from them.

quote:

Originally posted by JonTy:

quote:

Originally posted by arcwelder76:


If this is your first significant recall, don't worry, it won't be the last. This is just a part of owning firearms. I'm glad that the fix is free. If it wasn't, then there would be actually something to be upset about.

But it isn't free, my time isn't free so it costs me the time to register it, find a box then box it up, then drive 30 miles to the FedEx to ship, then drive 30 miles home, then take the day's time to be home when it finally ships back.

Plus do without the gun for who knows how long. This sounds free but the gun costs a fixed amount of money so there is cost figure per day of lost ownership.

At least Smith sent me a free magazine on my Bodyguard send in (2 week turn around time), Ruger sent me a free magazine & nice zip case on my early LCP recall/replacement (2 week time frame), Springfield sent me a free extended mag and a nice lined carry case on that recall (just 8 days total turnaround time), Ruger just sent me 2 new free mags on my Mark 4 recall send-in's, plus sent a ship-back box to my house (under 3 weeks for both).

Sig?, I can't even get total time frame information or even a send in date.

The fix is free.

No qualification needed, and it is not an incorrect statement.

Maybe SIG will send some swag or something when a pistol is returned, but the fix is free. Your time spent, or "invested" in the weapon doesn't make you unique or give you some sort of grievance. Your time is valuable to you, same for everyone else. Meaning everyone values their own time, not that we all value yours, just to be clear.

I'll be sending mine in, and in the meantime go back to any one of a number of choices of pistols I own to carry. Would it be more convenient if there were no problem and no recall? Sure. But as far as real impact on anyone's life, lets not be overly dramatic.

Send SIG a nasty note if you like. Give CS a call and some poor person a hard time if you want. But really, investing any time being worried or upset, is not time well spent. If your time is valuable, you should recognize this.

+1

After looking at the upgrade diagram that G&A put out (see other post to see it) will the new trigger be as strong as the original trigger and does this make it the same as the M17/M18? If not why not just upgrade them all to the military version since they don't seem to have the same problem.

quote:

Originally posted by JonTy:
But it isn't free, my time isn't free so it costs me the time to register it, find a box then box it up, then drive 30 miles to the FedEx to ship, then drive 30 miles home, then take the day's time to be home when it finally ships back.

In the past, SIG has arranged for FedEx to pick up at my house when I shipped a gun back to the them. AFAIK, it doesn't matter who hands it to the FedEx driver, so if you can't be home you can arrange someone else to do it for you. When it comes back to you, though, you'll have to be home to sign.

Just informational-Cabela's shows the P320 as "sold out" now. I talked to a hook-up, he says they sold out quickly this week and can't get anymore from the distributors. They do still have P250's in stock. I may break weak on a compact-I do like the P250.

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/...en5-glock-17-19/amp/

Glock gen 5 review and a stab at the P320 at around the 6:45 mark

quote:

Originally posted by USCO160:
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/...en5-glock-17-19/amp/

Glock gen 5 review and a stab at the P320 at around the 6:45 mark

It's not necessary to go looking for these, or to point them out. Don't assist others with their efforts to troll.

Plenty of these little jabs have occurred, more will. It's juvenile, and I don't look forward to tolerating it when Glock fucks up and people want to make fun of them, or any other gun company.

The stupid part, is that the company itself couldn't resist taking some potshots, and of course immature glockers will. Meanwhile, no company is free of problems and recalls. Certainly not Glock. Glass houses all around.

If you understand the history of Glock development, you'll know that their drop safe pistol was found to not be drop safe. So, if anyone should STFU, it's Glock and the people who use them. Oh, it was mostly drop safe, just not under certain conditions... but it was a new design so cut them some slack... Oh, but how could they release thousands and thousands of pistols that weren't completely safe? And so on and so forth. Sound familiar? That was before the internet, and lots of other stumbles along the way were before social media.

To be freaking out about this, to be upset about it, or to go out of ones way to make fun of SIG about it, shows one lacking at least in perspective if not also in patience and self control.

If a company called Glock can design a unique drop safe pistol, then make changes when someone figures out it's not 100% drop safe, then other companies can too.

This giant circle jerk of taking a piss at (at any one time)1911s, revolvers, HK, SA, Ruger, SIG, Glock and so on, is if nothing else inane and boring. I'm glad people choose a firearm to use and carry and think it is the best. But, being the best for them, doesn't mean it's the only good choice. Nor does it mean that said firearm was born of flawless design and has always been free from manufacturing and/or reliability issues.

It boggles my mind how anyone takes the time to "hate" a brand, be it Glock or fucking Cracklin' Oat Bran. If you have that kind of time, good for you. When I decide something isn't for me, I just don't buy it. As far as products are concerned, I'll warn people off certain things, like Charter Arms or TGI Fridays, but I don't hate those things. Other people can do and have things which I'll pay no mind.

There is no perfect choice, and you can always find someone who can stop a gun from running. Just as you can find someone who has an (insert something you find unreliable) that they can use without a hiccup. Find the gun that fits you, that you have confidence in, and that you are comfortable learning the care and feeding of. Train with it, train in every aspect including clearing stoppages. Then, carry it with the knowledge that you can defend your life with it. Beyond that, no more is needed, certainly not going on the internet to shit on someone elses choice.

Really, without social media, this P320 business would have been the minor inconvenience it actually is.

If I think about the firearms related recalls, replacements, and snafus that have occurred just in the decades I've been shooting, and add in all the other products in our world as well... There's tainted meat, bad over the counter meds, fragile gas tanks, air bags anyone?, peanut butter with too much staph, lawn darts, hell if you're going to get upset about a potentially unsafe product, it'll be a full time job. It is for some.

What was once just a corner of the internet, is now open and mainstream. Not trolling, though that is certainly bigger than ever. No, the new strain is Recreational Outrage. Where said outrage is both legitimized and sustained solely by itself, and attempts to calm that outrage in any way are offensive to the outraged.

It has become another flavor of Triggered. Where someone is now their own very special private protected class, because feelings. People are so focused on the me-me fee-fees that they don't want their feelings hurt but are so selfish as to relish doing it to someone else. So with Glock folks having fun taking digs.

Frankly, I'm sick of peoples feelings and opinions, and wish everyone would just shut the fuck up and cut the shit. I don't give two wags of my cock whether SIG handled this "correctly" or "fast enough" or any of that. Why? Because there is a fix, which is free, and doesn't mean they're scrapping all the guns and shutting the doors to the factory. When the next company has the next flaw, I'll do the same thing I'm doing now, which is not worrying about it, and waiting for the solution. This same sort of patience is good in a variety of crisis, and I learned it during numerous blips of gun control scare, but primarily from 1994-2004.

What I also won't be doing, is making fun of that company for having a flawed product, because it's not at all productive, it's short pants, and at best the essence of hubris.

Ok, I'm done now, have to go keep the Nazis and black helicopters off the lawn.

I hate nazi's.

quote:

Originally posted by arcwelder76:
......Oh, but how could they release thousands and thousands of pistols that weren't completely safe? And so on and so forth. Sound familiar? That was before the internet, and lots of other stumbles along the way were before social media. ......

Most shooters don't know what "before the Internet" means. I spent the years between 1967 (mainframes) and 2007 in the IT field. Government, large corporations, small-medium businesses, network consulting, etc. The Internet came along in the mid-nineties. Needless to say, I grew up mainly in a non-Internet world. The rise of the Internet literally changed the world. In some instances, not for the better.

I've been a shooter since the mid-sixties and have seen the progression of the industry since then. Most shooters, not being Old Farts like me, have no concept of what the handgun industry looked like back then. Lots of nostalgia maybe, but a lack of any first-hand knowledge. The big dog in town for revolvers was S&W. Colt had the magnificent Python, but that wasn't a gun for the average man. Most defensive shooters preferred the S&W actions over the Colt.

Now for the clincher. During part of the Bangor Punta years (1965-85), S&W quality control was pure shit. I know, because I was heavy into revolvers during the 1970's. Bought and sold about 30 of them. That's how I got into amateur gunsmithing and owed Brownell's my soul for tools and equipment. I loved the S&W designs but got tired of having to send so many new guns back under warranty. It was easier to fix them myself. Turnaround times back then were in months not weeks. A royal PITA.

Besides repairs, I also did action jobs on nearly every one of them. The guts were highly variable. Some guns would take a few hours to produce a very nice DA, some would take days to produce a mediocre one. Luck of the draw.

If there was an Internet back then we probably wouldn't have a S&W now.

It boggles the mind that someone can be upset over a "freebie". Gotta wonder if same people would be upset if this had occurred to another manufacturer. Geez...

Arc, you get a standing ovation!

quote:

Originally posted by Nipper:
If there was an Internet back then we probably wouldn't have a S&W now.

Not to stir the pot too much, but S&W is just a name anymore...especially after they were the first and only firearm manufacturer to sign up for Bill Clinton's gun lock crap back in the day. They haven't been "S&W" for a long time, and back then, they were owned by Tomkins in England. The brouhaha that came out of that demonstrates how quickly a major company can go down so far that they get sold...and Tomkins did end up selling S&W as a result of that. The CEO even complained about Americans mailing him envelopes filled with tea bags...it was glorious...and a lesson.

quote:

Originally posted by ether:
S&W is just a name anymore...especially after they were the first and only firearm manufacturer to sign up for Bill Clinton's gun lock crap back in the day.

S&W seems to have mostly shaken the lock business, few remember the Smegma as well I'd say. It also appears people have forgiven Ruger for its ban-era transgressions, and perhaps Colt as well. There are a number of companies now that seem little more than a name now, they've changed hands, or been sold to a holding company.

quote:

Originally posted by arcwelder76:
few remember

...which is why we old farts are here to give the history lessons

Academy has P320 on sale in todays paper for $499. Wonder how long they will last at that price?