Stopped by my LGS last night on a motorcycle ride, plenty of P320 still in the case, no panic, no lines of disgruntled buyers just guns, guys, boolits...

A year from now nobody will even know or remember this happened...

Interesting enough my neighbor has one, and until he got an email from The Armories he had no clue about the issue, emailed me for an update which I gave him about Last Mondays release coming up, he said fine I'll send mine in. That's it, no melodrama, no crying, no stompy angry feet, no inquiry as to why, when, who, where, what, no looking to blame anyone, just, Ok, I'll get mine fixed.

Last night he was over said he's going to register and send it back because he'll get it
back with all the upgraded new tech.

To most folks out there this is a Meh situation, problematic in that it's a problem to deal with however no more so than that, they will just register, mail them in and get them fixed. As long as it's being taken care of all is well.

BTW they did have a nice P250 compact on the used gun table, 9mm for $349...... Maybe I should get one....

I've watched this and stayed pretty quite. I don't currently own a P320 but I plan to buy on this year. You know what... I don't plan to use it as a hammer or juggle it.

I think a much larger deal is being made over this than what it actually is.

quote:

Originally posted by myrottiety:
I think a much larger deal is being made over this than what it actually is.

That may be but Sig also faces the marketing truth that "perception is reality."

quote:

Originally posted by myrottiety:
I've watched this and stayed pretty quite. I don't currently own a P320 but I plan to buy on this year. You know what... I don't plan to use it as a hammer or juggle it.

I think a much larger deal is being made over this than what it actually is.

In today's world, you really can't make a gun that is not drop safe "a much larger deal than what it actually is".

It's a big deal.

If it wasn't, SIG wouldn't be "voluntarily upgrading" 500,000 pistols for free.

That right there DEFINES "big deal".

I think he means it's not a big deal from HIS perspective. Which is true. When he buys HIS P320 it's going to be built with the "upgrades".

For current owners, it's a an inconvenience or a PITA, depending on your perspective. Register pistol, wait, send it in for upgrade, wait, open return box with pistol, shoot. Total cost zero.

Of course it's a big deal for Sig.

The problem with all of us that have been actively participating in the thread since Day One is we're all still juiced up from the battle. In the end, Sig resolved the problem. Also, in the end, Sig's bottom line has been whacked. Perhaps their reputation, but that remains to be seen. They may actually get credit for resolving the mess in a timely and fair manner. We''ll have to wait and see.

quote:

Originally posted by 3/4Flap:
In today's world, you really can't make a gun that is not drop safe "a much larger deal than what it actually is".

That's where Sig is leaving itself in a tough position. It still says the non-upgraded version is still "drop safe" - by standard testing.

Since other striker pistols seem to be passing the -30 test, many don't believe the original design is drop safe to anyone with walking around sense.

That's a hard public perception for Sig to shake.

quote:

Originally posted by Nipper:
In the end, Sig resolved the problem.

Did they?

There will still be P320s on the line that are not upgraded that Sig says are drop safe by one standard while we know that it goes off if dropped a particular way when other pistols don't.

Did that resolve the problem?

quote:

Originally posted by gordynismo:

quote:

Originally posted by JBird679:
You could choose not to send your pistol to Sig, since the "upgrade" is voluntary. Then you can just purchase a straight trigger on your own. This will be difficult since Grayguns and Apex have stopped selling theirs until updates are made

Still available at Top Gun Supply

I was in the Top Gun Supply Cleveland location yesterday oogling the P320 w/ thumb safety they had in the safe. I ended up walking out with a Glock 19 Gen4 MOS though. TGS is dangerous to the pocketbook.

quote:

Originally posted by HRK:
BTW they did have a nice P250 compact on the used gun table, 9mm for $349...... Maybe I should get one....

Been a while since I've seen a 250, but they were selling Gen2s new for about $399 at Academy here in Houston. Gander Mtn had Gen1 250s for $650

quote:

Originally posted by Tubetone:

quote:

Originally posted by Nipper:
In the end, Sig resolved the problem.

Has it? There will still be P320s on the line that are not upgraded that Sig says are drop safe by one standard while we know that it goes off if dropped a particular way when other pistols don't.

Did that resolve the problem?

People bring guns to the range all the time that are not drop safe. There are lots of them out there. How often do people drop loaded guns at the range? Not all that often. There are reasons they want you pointing loaded guns in a particular direction.

If you look down the line, you'll find guns from not just decades past, but centuries. Plenty of these guns aren't "drop safe."

In the case of range safety, it's the individual. If you see someone drop a gun at a range, that's not all you'll see, and it doesn't matter if the gun discharges or not. A range safety officer isn't going to give two shits that a gun didn't go off if someone dropped it, that shit will be dealt with PDQ. If the weapon did discharge, and in what direction, will determine if that person is ever allowed on the line again. What the gun was doesn't matter.

After 64 pages of reading, the only conclusion I've reached is... I still want to get one. Problem is, I need another pistol like I need to be hit in the head with a rock.

quote:

Originally posted by whanson_wi: Problem is, I need another pistol like I need to be hit in the head with a rock.

Get an old 320 and you'll have both!

I know someone started a new discussion for people to report their progress and experience with the upgrade process. I appears a decision was made to close the discussion and keep this 64 page monster alive.

I would like to suggest we open up the other discussion again, provided people can limit their posting in it to their factual experiences with the upgrade process and keep conjecture and hyperbole out of it.

I'm ready for this particular discussion to go away.

quote:

Originally posted by arcwelder76:

quote:

Originally posted by Tubetone:

quote:

Originally posted by Nipper:
In the end, Sig resolved the problem.

Has it? There will still be P320s on the line that are not upgraded that Sig says are drop safe by one standard while we know that it goes off if dropped a particular way when other pistols don't.

Did that resolve the problem?

People bring guns to the range all the time that are not drop safe. There are lots of them out there. How often do people drop loaded guns at the range? Not all that often. There are reasons they want you pointing loaded guns in a particular direction.

If you look down the line, you'll find guns from not just decades past, but centuries. Plenty of these guns aren't "drop safe."

In the case of range safety, it's the individual. If you see someone drop a gun at a range, that's not all you'll see, and it doesn't matter if the gun discharges or not. A range safety officer isn't going to give two shits that a gun didn't go off if someone dropped it, that shit will be dealt with PDQ. If the weapon did discharge, and in what direction, will determine if that person is ever allowed on the line again. What the gun was doesn't matter.

Arc. I previously cited to you some references of where the P320 is getting banned.

Today, I contacted Jon Boch of GSL Tactical - I believe a different company than I gave you before. He is a principal owner. They have about 20 firearms instructors. Link I told him I called because I wanted to verify facts before I posted about their position.

They have banned the P320 from all of their classes through at least the end of the year. They have a lawyer and Jon says that the liability isn’t worth the risk. He said that he wants people to be safe. He also doesn’t want to get sued and his lawyer says that with all the videos out, a jury won’t care about some industry drop standard. They will look at his company having knowledge of the drop fire issue and their failure to act. They have loaner guns and so many easy, safe alternatives.

He said that if Sig makes a fix that is easy to see from the outside of the P320 such as the new trigger, then he would likely allow that P320 again. He said that there was no way he would break down a P320 to verify if it had all the right parts on a pistol by pistol basis.

He said a lot of law enforcement agencies have banned the P320 and he knows of other trainers and ranges that will likely ban the P320, too.

By the way, he loves the P320 but says he just can’t risk it. Even if Sig upgrades many P320s, the legacy P320 is banned.

I guess people could argue all day about whether it should be banned but agencies, ranges and instructors are banning it.

The P320 drop fire problem has created its own weather so comparisons to other pistols does not address what is actually happening across the country.

quote:

Originally posted by lordhamster:

I laughed out loud at work. That gonna sound like firecrackers in Chinatown during the new year..

Hey, I'm talking about a typical public range, I'm not concerned with what agencies and private training facilities are doing. It's their right to run their operations as they see fit.

quote:

Originally posted by Tubetone:

quote:

Originally posted by arcwelder76:

quote:

Originally posted by Tubetone:

quote:

Originally posted by Nipper:
In the end, Sig resolved the problem.

Has it? There will still be P320s on the line that are not upgraded that Sig says are drop safe by one standard while we know that it goes off if dropped a particular way when other pistols don't.

Did that resolve the problem?

People bring guns to the range all the time that are not drop safe. There are lots of them out there. How often do people drop loaded guns at the range? Not all that often. There are reasons they want you pointing loaded guns in a particular direction.

If you look down the line, you'll find guns from not just decades past, but centuries. Plenty of these guns aren't "drop safe."

In the case of range safety, it's the individual. If you see someone drop a gun at a range, that's not all you'll see, and it doesn't matter if the gun discharges or not. A range safety officer isn't going to give two shits that a gun didn't go off if someone dropped it, that shit will be dealt with PDQ. If the weapon did discharge, and in what direction, will determine if that person is ever allowed on the line again. What the gun was doesn't matter.

Arc. I previously cited to you some references of where the P320 is getting banned.

Today, I contacted Jon Boch of GSL Tactical. He is a principal owner. They have about 20 firearms instructors. Link I told him I called because I wanted to verify facts before I posted about their position.

They have banned the P320 from all of their classes through at least the end of the year. They have a lawyer and Jon says that the liability isn’t worth the risk. He said that he wants people to be safe. He also doesn’t want to get sued and his lawyer says that with all the videos out, a jury won’t care about some industry drop standard. They will look at his company having knowledge of the drop fire issue and their failure to act. They have loaner guns and so many easy, safe alternatives.

He said that if Sig makes a fix that is easy to see from the outside of the P320 such as the new trigger, then he would likely allow that P320 again. He said that there was no way he would break down a P320 to verify if it had all the right parts on a pistol by pistol basis.

He said a lot of law enforcement agencies have banned the P320 and he knows of other trainers and ranges that will likely ban the P320, too.

By the way, he loves the P320 but says he just can’t risk it. Even if Sig upgrades many P320s, the legacy P320 is banned.

I guess people could argue all day about whether it should be banned but agencies, ranges and instructors are banning it.

The P320 drop fire problem has created its own weather so comparisons to other pistols does not address what is actually happening across the country.

This quite sensible.

Having said that, I wonder what this fellow would do if someone showed up with a Tokarev TT-33 or a STAR Modelo Super.

quote:

Originally posted by Tubetone:
He said that if Sig makes a fix that is easy to see from the outside of the P320 such as the new trigger, then he would likely allow that P320 again. He said that there was no way he would break down a P320 to verify if it had all the right parts on a pistol by pistol basis.

In one of the videos of Sig testing their upgrade, it showed a "bronze" looking trigger. I think that looked quite handsome and might be one way to go.

quote:

Originally posted by RichN:
I know someone started a new discussion for people to report their progress and experience with the upgrade process. I appears a decision was made to close the discussion and keep this 64 page monster alive.

I would like to suggest we open up the other discussion again, provided people can limit their posting in it to their factual experiences with the upgrade process and keep conjecture and hyperbole out of it.

I'm ready for this particular discussion to go away.

We don't need multiple threads on the topic, and people have already been discussing their experiences in this one. A separate thread may be appropriate when someone actually receives a pistol back from SIG. That would be worth segregating.

Starting a new thread, won't make this one go away any faster. No one is particularly thrilled to be having this discussion.