quote:

Originally posted by RHINOWSO:
While I agree that this event has taken a life of it's own, to completely discount the fact that the P320 has been demonstrated to be only mainstream striker fired gun to discharge when dropped on the back of it's slide is just as 'mad'.

Maybe these ranges just don't want the liability that might come with a gun being so widely demonstrated to drop when fired?

Maybe these instructors don't want a student to drop one and get shot in the head?

IDK, maybe that's just a crazy concept of mine.

All instructors tell their students to let a falling pistol drop because "MODERN PISTOLS DON'T FIRE WHEN DROPPED." The Sig P320 is as Rhino said, the ONLY Mass market "modern" pistol that has been proven to have a muzzle up drop vulnerability.

If ranges ban holsters like the Serpa which literally needs to be abused to cause an issue, then it stands to reason that in this much more serious issue, they would be even more cautious. I know I would not want to be training a CCW class full of first time shooters and soccer moms packing un-fixed P320. Remember not all students are tier 1 operators like James Yeager.

Words fail me

There are things I'd like to say, but when there are too many choices, I vapor lock. I'm always stymied when I go into a store where I have too many selections from which to choose. I once stood for 20 minutes in the cereal aisle of a Kroger, unable to move a muscle, just staring at the bran flakes.

OK, that's a lie. It was funny, though. Where was I? OK, what I really wanted to say was:

Monday will be a day without night and a night without a day. The hawk and the wolf will both return to human form. And the Cardinal may be out of luck.

I've been following along without comment as I don't have a dog in this fight.

I am a bit surprised that some folks seeem okay with the gun firing when dropped. I think banning them from ranges and whatnot is silly though. As others have pointed out, plenty of other guns on ranges that will fire if dropped.

That it's a new design that was marketed so strongly as drop safe is what is unique about this situation IMO. Sig's words are now coming back to haunt them.

At the end of the day, if the Army doesn't drop the 320, this will eventually be forgotten and the gun will succeed. If the Army dumps it, which others who know a lot more than me say isn't going to happen, then the gun will go the way of the dodo.

They'll fix it and all will be well is my bet.

I was glad to see Bruce comeback and update his comments and explain things. As always, his words were measured, mature and informative. Thanks Bruce.

All in all, I'm glad the issue was discovered and is being corrected. Safer guns will ensure the safety and continued growth of our sport/hobby.

quote:

Originally posted by esdunbar:

At the end of the day, if the Army doesn't drop the 320, this will eventually be forgotten and the gun will succeed. If the Army dumps it, which others who know a lot more than me say isn't going to happen, then the gun will go the way of the dodo.

I thought the whole point of the past 65 pages is that you SHOULDN'T drop your 320. . .

In 1987, Miami PD began testing the Glock 17. The tests included Glocks loaded with primed cases being thrown against or dropped onto steel and concrete. The drops were from as high as 60 feet.

No doubt, this degree of testing was due to the novelty of the Glock lockwork, being the porcelain-framed pistol loved by terrorists due to its invisibility on x-ray machines. There was a lot of curiosity and a lot of mistrust.

It seems that no agency which adopted the P320 conducted any such tests.

quote:

Originally posted by Hound Dog:
I thought the whole point of the past 65 pages is that you SHOULDN'T drop your 320. . .

And when you DO drop your 320, you MEANT to drop your 320.

I plan all my weapon drops well in advance. For safety, of course.

I know I personally drop test every pistol I own in all of the 46 million(+/-) possible angles they can hit the ground.

I think everyone should!

So when is Omaha Outdoors is going to subject the P320 to the Yeager Tactical Stomp?

quote:

Originally posted by JAG_SE:
I know I personally drop test every pistol I own in all of the 46 million(+/-) possible angles they can hit the ground.

I think everyone should!

Tumble Test: Toss a hundred blank loaded guns into the back an empty concrete mixer truck for a week of tumbling. Now that's a test.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
In 1987, Miami PD began testing the Glock 17. The tests included Glocks loaded with primed cases being thrown against or dropped onto steel and concrete. The drops were from as high as 60 feet.

No doubt, this degree of testing was due to the novelty of the Glock lockwork, being the porcelain-framed pistol loved by terrorists due to its invisibility on x-ray machines. There was a lot of curiosity and a lot of mistrust.

It seems that no agency which adopted the P320 conducted any such tests.

To your point, I wonder if this will result in the larger agencies adopting their own testing standards?

It should certainly lead to the industry redefining the drop test. Seems that the old/current testing standards are not robust enough.

quote:

Originally posted by esdunbar:

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
In 1987, Miami PD began testing the Glock 17. The tests included Glocks loaded with primed cases being thrown against or dropped onto steel and concrete. The drops were from as high as 60 feet.

No doubt, this degree of testing was due to the novelty of the Glock lockwork, being the porcelain-framed pistol loved by terrorists due to its invisibility on x-ray machines. There was a lot of curiosity and a lot of mistrust.

It seems that no agency which adopted the P320 conducted any such tests.

To your point, I wonder if this will result in the larger agencies adopting their own testing standards?

It should certainly lead to the industry redefining the drop test. Seems that the old/current testing standards are not robust enough.

It could lead to more stringent industry drop standard testing requirements but I doubt that will be required now.

After what Sig is now going through I just can't see any new gun models coming to market that aren't drop tested on all the corners and edges relating to trigger travel direction or sear/striker release directions. (especially in the muzzle-up directions)

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
It seems that no agency which adopted the P320 conducted any such tests.

No need. Sig said they were safe.

quote:

Originally posted by Fenris:

quote:

Originally posted by JAG_SE:
I know I personally drop test every pistol I own in all of the 46 million(+/-) possible angles they can hit the ground.

I think everyone should!

Tumble Test: Toss a hundred blank loaded guns into the back an empty concrete mixer truck for a week of tumbling. Now that's a test.

I like this but with live rounds. Really "Shake" things up.

quote:

Originally posted by sns3guppy:

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
It seems that no agency which adopted the P320 conducted any such tests.

No need. Sig said they were safe.

Glock was saying the same thing to the Miami PD in 1987.

quote:

Originally posted by leonidas211:

quote:

Originally posted by Fenris:

quote:

Originally posted by JAG_SE:
I know I personally drop test every pistol I own in all of the 46 million(+/-) possible angles they can hit the ground.

I think everyone should!

Tumble Test: Toss a hundred blank loaded guns into the back an empty concrete mixer truck for a week of tumbling. Now that's a test.

I like this but with live rounds. Really "Shake" things up.

That would be interesting, once the Sig went off and shot another it could then snowball and become a small nuclear reaction type thing.

Anyone remember the Vector CP1?

South African gun with a surprise inside.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:

quote:

Originally posted by sns3guppy:

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
It seems that no agency which adopted the P320 conducted any such tests.

No need. Sig said they were safe.

Glock was saying the same thing to the Miami PD in 1987.

Miami has never been safe.

quote:

Originally posted by Fenris:
Anyone remember the Vector CP1?

South African gun with a surprise inside......

Water??

Just received this via e-mail from Sig. E-mail address is apparently from their database of registered owners:

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

Dear registered P320® pistol owner:

SIG SAUER is offering a voluntary upgrade program for all P320 pistols that enhances function, reliability, and overall safety including drop performance. This will include an alternate design that reduces the physical weight of the trigger, sear, and striker while additionally adding a mechanical disconnector. All P320 pistol owners are eligible. Sign up online and get your P320 upgraded at no cost to you. Once SIG SAUER receives your P320 pistol, they will apply the upgrades, test it, and then return it to you free of charge.

Please visit https://www.sigsauer.com/suppo...ary-upgrade-program/ to learn about this program and to fill out the online form.

If you have already registered for this upgrade you do not need to resubmit.

If you have additional questions, please contact customer service at 603-610-3000 option #1. Representatives are available Monday through Friday, from 8:30 am to 6 pm EDT.

Thank you!
SIG SAUER