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I completely agree and feel it is my fault for bringing him into this discussion. I do apologize for that. I've seen the same in my years here and don't think anything but the best of him. -wolff "In the absence of light, darkness prevails." - Professor Bruttenholm | |||
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Member |
Which brings up an interesting point. Many folks have modified their P320's with after market triggers, improved sights and even custom stippling of the polymer grip module. I'm nearly certain in addition to the upgrade, the pistols will be returned to their original factory configuration. I'm curious if SIG will return any aftermarket parts with the upgraded pistols. | |||
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| Go ahead punk, make my day |
Without a doubt. For all the spears to throw SIGs way, the are in no way responsible for ensuring their product works with the myriad of aftermarket goodies people stick on them / in them. That's the aftermarket makers responsibility. I'd expect any P320 returning from the recall-upgrade-fancyservice-thingy to be box stock internals. Not sure how they will handle stippled - modified grips or RMR / slide work. | |||
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| Member |
The only change they are making to the side is the striker so I don't see how having an RMR cut would make any difference at all. Also, grip stippling does nothing in regards to the FCU. With the way this all went down, I would be surprised if they turned anyone away. | |||
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Member |
I respect him an awful lot. Tundra on this forum has made some similar responses before on this forum. What am I doing? I'm talking to an empty telephone | |||
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| Member |
Indeed! Some things seem so obvious after the fact ... like drop-testing guns on the back of the slide or developing guns with ever-more-delicate triggers. | |||
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| Member |
I think Langdon nailed it! | |||
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Member |
Agreed. I still (occasionally) carry my PPK/S because I'm so comfortable with the DA/SA/decocker. The MOA was one of the primary reasons I purchased my first SIG, a P229R. | |||
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| Go ahead punk, make my day |
I think it will depend on how much $$$ SIG wants to spend on this "voluntary upgrade" and what they see their liabity as (if any). I guess we'll see Monday when they unveil it. I'm sure they'll be working the weekend! | |||
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| Member |
Depending on how things go on Monday I may just move on. I spent a fair bit of money on this platform. Got RMR cuts on two guns. Being in CA, I paid close to 1000 per gun. Monday will be the deciding factor on if I choose to move on to another gun. Somewhat disappointed in this whole thing. | |||
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| Member |
It will be interesting. I am fully involved in the 320. 3 FCU's and multiple grip modules, mags, holsters, uppers, etc. Shoot I even bought some of those fancy 21 rounders. I stippled to my hearts content and found striker fired nirvana to my mind. I love my G19 with Overwatch Precision trigger (gen3 trigger bar, "-" connector, HD sights), great gun, I shoot it well and it does everything I can ask of it. The 320 with small grips does all that stock out of the box. I shoot it well. I shoot it fast (for me). I love it. I agree with jlj when he comments that this gun is very forgiving of user input errors. I really hope that the engineers have this figured out. Monday will be interesting. The fact that it "appears" they already have the fix is kind of damning to the corporation though. I also won't pay a dime to fix this. If that is part of their solution then they will lose a customer for life. I will sell every bit of 320 gear I have and never look back. Honestly though I don't believe that will be the case. That would be a huge shot in their own foot. Handled correctly this is burble in the great stream of this pistols lifespan. Handled poorly, it could be a death knell. Edited to add: Because I can hold a grudge, I probably would divest myself of Sig gear in general. I love my Legion but it doesn't do anything I can't get my Beretta's to do for example. I can also sell my 225A1 and get another 3rd gen Smith and be quite content. No Sig is indispensable to me. I really hope they handle this well. And actually solve the problem, because this is a problem. | |||
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| JOIN, or DIE |
I deleted the big picture, but a further question I have from all of this is....are those the guns that are "fixed" or are those from the normal 320 with the issues seen? | |||
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| JOIN, or DIE |
That leads to my next question.....why do 2200 drops in a manner that you know it should pass and Zero in the manner that is the issue? What is that supposed to prove/accomplish at this point? | |||
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Member |
We sometimes forget and many here fail at identifying their own inadequicies. Most here don't attend training, some don't even shoot that much. But we often make excuses for poor technique. Wish I had a dime for every time I've heard what a sweet trigger, or how do I improve my trigger. It all based on a fallacy that the trigger is the problem. Take a class. Love the gun your with. Me and my G19 got smoked by BG in one of his training classes and he was shooting a DA/SA P226. Yeah, sure he worked over the trigger like it's no one's business, but he still would've taken me to school, with a stock P226. No excuses. Joe | |||
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| Go ahead punk, make my day |
I recall one of the many articles already posted stated that SIG had no problem replicating the -30 drop fire when they looked at it. Those results are obviously not contained in the briefing slides. Otherwise if they couldn't duplicate it, there would be no need to 'upgrade', and the weapons firing at -30 would simply be defective weapons. Over on PF a member stated that the CT police incident was captured on surveillance camera (dropped the P320 fully holstered). After the event, the pistol was unholstered in the evidence room (also videoed) where a spent casing was found in the chamber. SIG looked at the weapon and could find nothing wrong with it. FWIW. "In a completely random interaction, I just talked tonight to an individual who was actually on scene at the CT lawsuit injury. The P320 in that case was in an ALS holster with loop up holding gun full retention. Holster was unclipped from some sort of quick release belt rig and lying in holster on top of a bunch of gear. As officer was carrying gear pile it fell off and discharged. Everything was on video surveillance. Gun was unholstered under video in evidence room. Empty brass in chamber. Sig was notified and inspected gun the next day in NH. Couldn't find anything wrong with it. I saw a photo that purported to show the blown out holster with gun. All this is hearsay, I can't provide any evidence, but I expect this will all come out in the lawsuit. " https://pistol-forum.com/showt...safety-issues/page82 Last post of the page. | |||
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| Member |
A little levity. We all need it. After this is over, let's all get together in person. For convenience, Ive selected the location described below. There has to be a bar somewhere in Lebanon, Kansas. Or, if you prefer, 39°50′N 98°35′W.  Location: "The geographic center of the contiguous United States is the center of 48 U.S. states. It has been regarded as such by the U.S. National Geodetic Survey (NGS) since the 1912 additions of New Mexico and Arizona to the United States. Its position as located in a 1918 survey is located at 39°50′N 98°35′W, in Kansas about 2.6 miles (4.2 km) northwest of the center of Lebanon, approximately 12 miles (19 km) south of the Kansas-Nebraska border." ______________________ An expert is one who knows more and more about less and less until he knows absolutely everything about nothing. --Nicholas Murray Butler | |||
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| Member |
For me, clarification is key, as is the answer to 3 simple yes or no questions. Did Sig Sauer know about the P320 drop safety issue during the time of the military handgun trials? Is this why the military P320's trigger and parts of the FCU were modified? Did Sig Sauer knowingly continue to sell unsafe P320s to armed citizens and law enforcement during this time? If the answers to my questions are 3 checked "YES" boxes, I'm done. My Sig Sauers are gone. I'm $1,100 into 2 P320s, which doesn't sound like much, but for me, it's a small fortune. I'll unhesitatingly ditch them and my beloved German P228 for a different brand and never look back. I hope with all hope that I am wrong about Sig Sauer's management, but my faith is shaken to its foundation. | |||
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Unflappable Enginerd |
Drama much? I hope you're being rhetorical because if you think you're going to get actual answers to those questions I must question your sanity... SIG did however make a statement, if you choose to believe them, regarding the changes made for the MHS as being made to "improve trigger performance", I would go look it up but I'm lazy. It was linked somewhere in this thread. __________________________________ NRA Benefactor I lost all my weapons in a boating, umm, accident. http://www.aufamily.com/forums/ | |||
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| Peace through superior firepower  |
Let me help | |||
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| Member |
I wonder what Nancy Grace would do with this topic. LOL To me the solution is simple. Wait and see what happens. It is not the first time something has happened with a firearm manufacturer. I like Sig guns and the way they perform. I have sent my Glock 42 back twice and Glock fixed the problem and paid the postage. My Ruger SR 22 has been back to Ruger twice for different problems. Same result here. I was without both guns for a few weeks and had to drive to FedEx location four times. No big deal. I just wish I had the same customer satisfaction with all the other non firearm purchases I have made. I am not a fan of Cohen, but will wait to see how Sig handles this. I have not seen any Late Night Ads from lawyers as of yet, as I do daily for Air Bags, defective hernia mesh, and dangerous drugs I may have taken. | |||
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