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| Member |
A very good friend of mine was peripherally involved in the P320. He like the gun. A lot. I've played with it and, it's a well thought out and designed handgun. Anything mechanical can have issues. How a company deals with it is where the rubber meets the road. Sig knew there was a problem in January when an Officer dropped his holstered P230 and it shot him in the leg. Apparently Sig made changes to the Military version. When called out on the gun firing when dropped, Sig released a press release, carefully worded, to reassure end users the gun was drop safe. Although, it wasn't and, they knew it. When backed into a corner, they offer a voluntary upgrade. Again, carefully (stupidly?) worded to deflect from the issue. That's not a good business plan when there are multiple videos floating around of your product not behaving in a manner that the end user should expect. Sig lost some serious credibility with me and, I'm sure many others. | |||
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Member |
Likely to defeat the trigger pulling when dissembling. The 320 is a fantastic design. But the company is less than stellar anymore. -wolff "In the absence of light, darkness prevails." - Professor Bruttenholm | |||
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Sigforum K9 handler |
It was mainly compatible with the 250 chassis. | |||
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| Troll |
I'm not into playing head games. Like I said, I'm new here and have not completely made up my mind. | |||
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| Peace through superior firepower  |
Y'know, Mike, usually when someone pulls this kind of thing- coming into a controversial thread with their first post, and criticizing the members and/or management- I just nuke the troll. I'm giving you an opportunity to explain to me- to point out to me- specifically which posts and which members you are saying are trolling this thread. Right now, the only troll I see is you. Now, forget about the other members for a moment, please, and tell me what ails you. Your next post should address what I am asking you, or you can tell your story walkin'. ____________________________________________________ "I am your retribution." - Donald Trump, speech at CPAC, March 4, 2023 | |||
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| Member |
This will not end well, my son. -wolff "In the absence of light, darkness prevails." - Professor Bruttenholm | |||
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| Troll |
I think you missed it. Sig said the commercial Sig P320's can discharge when dropped at a 30 degree angle. They further said that the current tests aren't good enough. They also suspended production of the P320 pistols. Their current plan is to offer a voluntary upgrade to owners of Sig P320's to address the problem. | |||
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| Troll |
This will not end well, my son.[/QUOTE] I'm probably old enough to be your father, son. I've been around the block a time or two. | |||
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| Troll |
I've posted facts. If you want to boot me, then that is your perrogative. | |||
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| Raised Hands Surround Us Three Nails To Protect Us  |
I am still not fully understanding what all the kerfuffle is all about. Yes, I understand that in certain instances of what if possibilities when dropped the 320 can go off. While it can happen how often does it actually happen considering the incident occurs outside of the intended use. I can understand the commotion if it occurred during intended use (is slam fire). I have been handling firearms on a daily basis for nearly 16 years now. I have dropped a loaded firearm twice once a Sig and once a Glock. In both instances my first reaction was "oh shit" and dove my ass the other direction. Not ohh, I am good they have been drop tested. Guns are inherently dangerous and in many instances we have to take extra precautions to stay safe but also realize it can happen. This is the way I see it Sig has tested the firearm to industry standards and likely beyond. But there are countless angles, heights, etc. these things can be dropped from or dropped onto. It is pretty much impossible to test every last scenario and have a perfectly safe gun. Just like the cars we all drive everyday they are crash tested to industry standards but guess what people still crash into trees, other vehicles at crazy angles, through split rail fences and get decapitated and killed. These are tested to standards but when something happens outside of the intended use but still a foreseeable possible scenerio the car forums don't go all a buzz about it and quit driving their cars. The company generally learns from these scenarios and tries to make the next better and safer. Sure in some instances the car company pulls the cars completely but very rarely does it happen. Sig has acknowledged the issue and realizes it can happen and maybe they can make it better but one is NEVER going to create a 100% safe gun. Just like a car manufacturer will NEVER make vehicle model that someone is not going to die in. Would I go buy a 320 today if I had the coin to do so. I sure would and guess what I own a Remington 700 too  ———————————————— The world's not perfect, but it's not that bad. If we got each other, and that's all we have. I will be your brother, and I'll hold your hand. You should know I'll be there for you! | |||
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| Peace through superior firepower |
What a joke. You've posted nothing but your opinion. Better luck next time, troll. | |||
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| Member |
When did Sig suspend production of P320's? When did Sig state that current tests arent good enough? When did Sig state that their firearms discharged when dropped at a 30 degree angle?
No, they weren't. | |||
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| Member |
I guess everyone has different risk tolerance. Based on what I've seen in the videos yesterday and today, I would not have an un-"upgraded" P320 in my house. As for the likelihood of such a drop occurring? Who knows... once is enough for me. Sig is already being sued over a holstered duty weapon being dropped and going off (as has been mentioned here a dozen times) https://drive.google.com/file/...N3l1SHkwQ243TWs/view As for your diving out of the way... I'd say you are very lucky your pistols didn't fire when dropped, because your dive would be way too late to save you. Futhermore, I really don't care for your implication that since no gun will ever be 100% safe, the sig drop fires we are seeing are somehow acceptable? I just don't understand that thinking. Bottom line is this is an EASILY repeatable potentially fatal flaw that has caused at least one trained police officer to be shot. Now that we have documented the cause and can reliably repeat the scenario, it would be INSANE to do nothing. | |||
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| Member |
TODAY at a Press conference. http://soldiersystems.net/2017...untary-p320-upgrade/ "They’ve stopped commercial production of the P320 and are concentrating on the upgrade. It’s going to be more than just swapping parts. The slide and frame will need some work as well so the pistol will need to go back to SIG. Details will soon follow on how to participate in the voluntary upgrade program." "When asked if the existing testing protocols were good enough, Tom Taylor, Executive Vice President of Commercial Sales replied, “not for us.”"  | |||
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| JOIN, or DIE |
In 2017, a gun made by a premier manufacturer should be drop safe.....period. Surprised at some here that don't seem to think its a big deal, including those who have dropped guns. On top of that, Sig most likely knew all of this before this came out and was misleading in their lawyered up remarks a week ago (commercial market). Then they double down with that press release. I will say one thing though, this is about the strangest chain of events I've seen in a while. | |||
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| Raised Hands Surround Us Three Nails To Protect Us |
That is EXACTLTY my point how many people die on a daily basis in vehicles that have been tested to or beyond the industry standard?? Far more than anyone one dropping firearms. How many people have died from dropping a 320 I am guessing zero and sounds like only 1 person has been injured out of how many are carried and handled everyday. The fact is it is going to happen there is never going to be a gun that in some scenerio is not going to accidentally fire. Is it a concern sure but something to be so overly concerned about I would not buy one. Nope, not at that point. Now if it were a scenario where the gun could fire when I drop the slide and this was a frequently repeatable scenario sure. But dropping which rarely happens and has to be dropped and land at a certain angle at that. No worries here. ———————————————— The world's not perfect, but it's not that bad. If we got each other, and that's all we have. I will be your brother, and I'll hold your hand. You should know I'll be there for you! | |||
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| Member |
Agreed. The Cognitive dissonance is astounding. While I certainly understood those who said "lets not panic till we have confirmation," I really don't understand the logic of those who think this type of drop failure as seen in the videos is REMOTELY acceptable. To me it feels like they are trying to validate their purchase decision by blindly ignoring an obvious danger. I'd be willing to bet $20 that everyone in the "well don't drop your gun" crowd has a half inch thick "otterbox case" on their phones to protect in case of a drop.
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| Raised Hands Surround Us Three Nails To Protect Us |
Did I say do nothing???? Nope. Are you going to stop driving your car?? I promise you hundreds have died in repeatable collision scenerios. What is the difference???? ———————————————— The world's not perfect, but it's not that bad. If we got each other, and that's all we have. I will be your brother, and I'll hold your hand. You should know I'll be there for you! | |||
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Rule #1: Use enough gun |
You didn't seem to learn much. When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own house, his possessions are undisturbed. Luke 11:21 "Every nation in every region now has a decision to make. Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists." -- George W. Bush | |||
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| Member |
Sorry, but car crashes are a strawman... at best a red herring. If you want a better analogy you'd be talking about cars with KNOWN defects. You are saying you'd have no worries about buying a new P320... that is like saying you'd have no worries about buying a new car that is known to have defective breaks. Sure all cars can be involved in collisions, but cars with design defects are inherently much more dangerous. My car is actually under a recall notice for the Tanaka Airbag failure where an over pressured airbag component can turn the airbag into a mini-grenade. I have been notified of the recall and I will DAMN WELL have it fixed as soon as possible. I don't just say... what the hell, no car is 100% safe. Futhermore, if a recall notice on my car in say the brake components was issued and I chose to ignore it, I would be potentially endangering not just myself but also other drivers. So while no car is 100% safe, I DO think it is incumbent on any driver to do their level best to immediately repair any safety issues. | |||
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