I don't have a 320, and I know nothing about the mechanics. Here's a video explaining the striker for those who are curious.




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Originally posted by nhracecraft:
Email from SIG...

So, they made one good public statement about the airman fatality and then went right back to deny deny deny. Good grief.

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Originally posted by Greymann:
I don't have a 320, and I know nothing about the mechanics. Here's a video explaining the striker for those who are curious.

Posted middle of pg. 45.

Now we're getting fancy. Yep, the trigger has to be pulled somehow. Agreed, the rails could be tightened up a bit. I'm sure the comments are interesting.

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Originally posted by SigSentry: Agreed, the rails could be tightened up a bit.

The numbers I’m collecting so far have about half the rails small out of spec, the other half on the very small end of being in spec for width.

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Originally posted by trapper189:
Wouldn’t partially pulling the trigger disengage the striker safety block and engage the sear enough to prevent it from moving thus render the secondary sear notch incapable of catching the striker? The first and second parts are by design so the gun can go bang when the trigger pull is finished.

Yes, exactly. Partial trigger pull first disengages the striker block, then lowers both the primary and secondary sears. The striker hook could now be perched on the edge of the primary sear, and if it releases the secondary sear is probably not going to catch it.

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Since the trigger is being pulled, this test proves nothing as far as the P320 supposedly just going off without the trigger being pulled.

The trigger is being pulled, but only partially and without an immediate discharge. The firing cycle completes at a later time, when the slide is jostled or the gun inserted or removed from holstering.

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I’m not sure what situation where the gun going off because its operator partially pulled the trigger then giggled the slide would be an issue. Is anybody doing that?

Without a tab safety, the trigger is being subjected to accidental movement- a finger where it shouldn't be, a foreign object, a bad holster. The gun doesn't go off right away, but later.

This is my Grand Unifying Theory, tying together the unsafetied trigger and internal mechanical problems. Just a theory, but a plausible one.

^^^Ah, I see what you are saying now. It don’t have a P320 to test, I’m wait for the closeout deals, but wouldn’t releasing the trigger reset the striker safety lever?

I do have my M&P Shield Performance Center M2.0 40 and tried partially pulling the trigger. I’m not good enough to get it to the point off almost firing and releasing it just before firing on a consistent basis.

That’s a problem with the theory that the P320’s sear perches because someone pulled its trigger just enough for that to happen, then holstered it just carefully enough not to set it off, didn’t jiggle it enough to set it of for a period of time, and then jiggled it just right to see it off.

I’d think the striker would fire immediately upon the first holster attempt, but the striker safety lever would prevent the striker from striking the primer. However, it could be an explanation of how the MSP guns wound up with a dead trigger.

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I'm sure the comments are interesting.

Hundreds of thousandths of people might find them humorous.

^Good question. That's a hole in my GUT that I haven't figured out yet. Also, why the entire trigger bar doesn't return (or does it?) and the sear reset as well after releasing the trigger.

Something to do with the dead trigger condition that police department reported. Stacked tolerances, internal contamination? I wonder how many slices in this swiss cheese model.

I’m sorry. I edited my post before reading yours and added more. It’s a bad habit (posting first, then rereading to see if it was what I really wanted to say), but as I reread what I wrote, I thought, “Shit, maybe that explains the MSP’s dead trigger problem”, so I added that in.

^No prob.

Many people decry MIM. But MIM could create frame rails that were more repeatable for their width and angle. If the MIM part could “insert mold” four harder steel pads to act as wear resistant slide pads, it might just fix at least that issue.

For comparison, here’s a bent metal framed modular FCU from one of my Beretta APX A1 Compacts:





The slide has a slight amount of vertical and horizontal play.

Also, manually pressing the sear down raises the lever that pushes against the striker safety block. They are two sperate parts, but they interface with each other such that they move together.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: trapper189,

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Originally posted by 4MUL8R:
Many people decry MIM. But MIM could create frame rails that were more repeatable for their width and angle. If the MIM part could “insert mold” four harder steel pads to act as wear resistant slide pads, it might just fix at least that issue.

I make no apologies in stating that I prefer forged tool steel firing control parts to MIM. Having said that, I also realize that MIM made parts can be of good quality, some even better than investment cast steel. My question is - how do we know that SIG is getting the top quality MIM parts and not just what’s “good enough?” Last I knew SIG was getting most of these MIM parts from India. How do we know that SIG paid for the top quality MIM parts? Just because you buy a car doesn’t mean that it comes loaded with the heated leather seats, and the most powerful engine option - you need to pay extra for those. Do we know that SIG is paying extra for the higher quality parts? Also do we know that SIG is doing metallurgical testing and not just visual inspection, even with the most advanced optical inspection equipment, to ensure that they’re getting the best quality parts? No disrespect but India, like China, has a reputation for cutting corners when they can to save a little and pad their profit margins. If a company is going to subcontract out critical parts of their fire control assemblies then they need to make sure they’re getting premium parts if they’re charging premium prices or else it’s negligent in my opinion.

Hickok45 shares his take on the P320.

"SIG P320 Fiasco ! | What Do I Think About It?"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4Rudq7-wqw

quote:

Originally posted by 4MUL8R:
Many people decry MIM. But MIM could create frame rails that were more repeatable for their width and angle. If the MIM part could “insert mold” four harder steel pads to act as wear resistant slide pads, it might just fix at least that issue.

Not all MIM is created equal though. Remember when Smith was having dead trigger problems? The sears at that time were about like Twinkees. Hard on the outside with a soft center. To fix it, Smith reengineered the sear spring set up and sear as well.

Here's an interesting theory from a psychological point of view.

Dr. Grande! A few years back, I questioned this guy's celebrity psychology commentary on youtube. He simply deleted my observations and questions. He might be an alright guy, but...

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Originally posted by parabellum:
Dr. Grande! A few years back, I questioned this guy's celebrity psychology commentary on youtube. He simply deleted my observations and questions. He might be an alright guy, but...

I had the unfortunate experience of watching one of his critiques of a police use of force incident that was posted on another board. First of all, he's grating and smug. He also had no idea what he was talking about. I'm impressed that his depth of knowledge is so diverse as to be able to speak with authority on such a broad range of topics as psychology, police us of force, and now handgun design .

Admittedly, I'm not in a place that I can watch the video, so I've not done so yet.

On the question of P320 UDs, he says "I think it's up to each person to conduct their own research, and decide for themselves."

Sure, that's not a naive statement at all. Do you think he's actually met any people from planet Earth?

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Originally posted by 92fstech:
I'm impressed that his depth of knowledge is so diverse as to be able to speak with authority on such a broad range of topics as psychology, police us of force, and now handgun design .

The guy is prolific, I'll give him that. He's got 3600 videos on youtube.

Yes, he comes across as smug, which is one of the reasons why I questioned why someone who postures in such a manner would stoop to address some of the things he comments on. My impression, then and now, is that he's out to make a buck.

The greatest amount of static and noise surrounding this issue is from those looking for 15 minutes of fame and/or money.

My god, it's like death by a thousand user clicks.