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Originally posted by nhracecraft:
<<snip>> As the striker hook (located on the slide/upper receiver) is retained/released by the sear located in the lower receiver, it would seem that by design pretty much all striker fired pistols are intolerant of such manipulations. <<snip>>

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^^ I didn't say there was NO problem/issue, just that NOBODY seems to be able to identify what's occurring. Minds are certainly made up though!

What we really need are verifiable facts and evidence, along with tests that have repeatable outcomes. To that end, I'm eagerly awaiting to hear what Bruce Gray @ GrayGuns has been able to determine. Hopefully then we'll get some real answers on this!

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Originally posted by CPD SIG:

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Originally posted by rscalzo:


Maybe that's why Safariland is redesigning their ALS holster.

Nothing against Safariland holsters, the ALS line, or Safariland in general… It IS one of the most popular brands out there.
But I’ve seen videos with other holsters and a “Bang” from the P320.

Is it a deflection?
*“It’s not our fault, we told you! It’s the holster maker!!!”
Is it actually part of the problem?
*Any type of holster that comes near the trigger/trigger pin/ puts pressure on the slide… (or whatever reason) AND THE P320 is bad!”
Or are we back to square one, and the P320 is just a messed up design?

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Originally posted by Black92LX:
....
I have heard of ZERO issues of an unholstered 320 firearm discharging.
So is the firearm the actual issue????

Just curious. If one builds a vehicle and an aftermarket company builds a front bumper that blocks airflow to the radiator and the car overheats and destroys the engine is the engine design the failure or is it the bumper that is the issue?

So if a 320 has never fired uncommanded outside of a holster is the gun at fault or is it the holster design????????

Maybe that is a bad analogy because one is actually modifying the vehicle itself.

But if the gun has no issues what so ever out of a holster is it really the gun?
The gun was designed first and the holster(s) after right????

Are all the holsters that have had uncommanded discharges made by 3rd party companies after the 320 was designed??
Or is there are Sig holster designed for the gun an issue too?

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Originally posted by Rusty_SWO:

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Originally posted by rscalzo:
As far as your "more expensive manufacturing techniques" care to tell us what you'd improve based on your knowledge of their current techniques? I'm guessing that you must be familiar with their current manufacturing based on personal knowledge? Is the fact that they use modern high end machinery not suitable?

I’m an engineer working in manufacturing. My background is in machinery design, and I’ve done quite a lot of molded parts, bent sheet metal parts, and machined parts.

I have *never* specified tolerances of +.002”/-.004” on a bent sheet metal part.

Why?

Because I know there’s NFW I’m going to actually achieve them.

And guess what? Sig didn’t achieve them either.




Incidentally, the frame rails being shaped like that (in other words, both undersized and not even close to square) could quite easily account for a lot of the so-called “shake-awake” behavior.

Mine measures exactly the same, by the way.

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Originally posted by David Lee:
I like your post here. I haven't followed this entire topic as I've never warmed up to the so called P250 or P320 pistols. While I have made many kinds of parts to the open tolerances GD&T allows as acceptable, I've long felt it came about so a product could be manufactured by Bozo the clown in some 3rd world country, thereby ridding the American worker of his means to make a living. What is acceptable as quality is not actually a good part product. I harbor feelings about the Amerucan business model when it comes right down to critical goods like arms. Saddening our Military or Law Enforcement with cheap junk does not bode well. So, I see these uppity New Englanders CAD model a new pistol, proofing a few that make the grade, melding together MIM, stamped blanked or formed sheet stock and a few basic machined and pinned parts, housed in a poly grip module, then it's off to "run the crap out of them. It's time to make money and labor ain't cheap." Long run function and safety be damned. Blame it on the holsters or handlers. I bet dollars to doughnuts, I can take down several FCUs of these guns and find enough irregularitys to prove it's not a good design.

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Originally posted by Sgt 127:
As often as fingers get pointed at Safariland, it would behoove them to stop making holsters for the P320. And, advise their customers, that still use one, to only carry chamber empty.

Alien Gear should follow suit sine the Airman was killed by a P320 in one of their holsters.

If there are not duty holster manufacturers left, it would really slow down P320 sales.

Of course, Sig will sue them to start making holsters again.

I have no idea why it seems P320’s keep going off in holsters. But, there’s enough times on video to make one wonder. There’s millions of them out there. They very rarely go bang uncommanded.

But, c’mon Sig. this isn’t a good look.

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Originally posted by rscalzo:
Why would fingers not get pointed their way? they are the one almost common thread in the incidents.

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Originally posted by rscalzo:

Why would fingers not get pointed their way? they are the one almost common thread in the incidents.

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“A reliable test could not be developed at the time of this document to test the effectiveness of the secondary sear notch. However, testing did indicate with movements representing those common to a law enforcement officer it is possible to render the Striker Safety Lock inoperable and ineffective at preventing the striker from impacting a chambered round if complete sear engagement is lost,” the report concludes. “It is important to note that the Striker Safety Lock, by design, is the last safety in line to prevent an unintended discharge as it is in place to protect against a secondary sear notch override.”

“While examination of the subject weapon did not independently provide evidence of an uncommanded discharge it does indicate that it may be possible if sear engagement is lost. The disabling of the striker safety lock through movement and friction creates a condition which merits further exploration to fully assess potential risk,” it continues. “BRF recommends that MSP weigh the content of this report with the outcome of the internal investigation in making its final determination related to the Sig Sauer M18 as an issued firearm within the department.”

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In addition, Sig Sauer claims that it engaged with the FBI in relation to the August 2024 report and its findings, and that subsequent testing was conducted that contradicts the initial results.

“The test conducted by the FBI-BRF was made aware to Sig Sauer when it was submitted to the Michigan State Police,” Jason St. John, senior director of strategic products for the company’s Defense Strategies Group, told TWZ. “Sig Sauer expressed concerns with the FBI’s initial report about how some of the tests were conducted.”

“Specifically, Sig explained that forcing the sear downward with a punch was moving the trigger bar forward and, as a result, the trigger to the rear since the sear is in constant contact with the trigger bar,” he continued. “Sig expressed that this was not a proper representation of the striker slipping off of the sear’s primary notch from a parallel/grip-down drop. Sig also noted that the FBI’s concern of the striker safety spring movement on the striker assembly post after getting hit with a hammer was unwarranted due to the viewing window that was cut into the slide that sacrificed the sidewall support of the striker safety spring.”

“After the initial report was submitted, Sig Sauer and its engineers worked in cooperation with the FBI and Michigan State Police to design a fixture that all agreed would create a more controlled testing protocol for striker/sear slippage,” St. John added. “Using that fixture, the FBI forced the sear off of the primary notch 565 times with 19EA different striker assemblies with zero indents on the primer (no fires).”

TWZ has reached out to the FBI for more details about the results of this additional testing.

Sig’s St. John also told us that the company has no plans to take further actions regarding the P320 based on the initial BRF report on the MSP incident last year.

“Sig Sauer continues to have full faith in the P320,” he said. “Due to the FBI manually manipulating the P320 sear improperly, Sig Sauer refutes the initial results.”

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Originally posted by 10round:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqE58zhljlY

This is worth a watch.