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Sigforum K9 handler |
It may not be enough to convince some, but it will 100 percent cause agencies large and small to drop the platform all together. SIG will hemorrhage business over this out of the LE market. The military I imagine will be largely unaffected, as there are way too many flag /general officers on the take. | |||
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Page 8 of 32. How could the striker have reset if the slide didn’t cycle? The wear on the secondary sear notch makes me believe the sear had slipped off the primary hook at least once. I wonder if that gun has had a “dead trigger” before. Of the striker was only being held by the striker safety, does it have enough energy to fire? | |||
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| When you fall, I will be there to catch you -With love, the floor |
I'm waiting for a 320 to discharge OUTSIDE of a holster. Seems like that never happens. But it's not a holster issue. Two weeks ago at the Sig EDC event, a competitor trips sending his loaded P320 bouncing about twenty feet. Odd....no discharge. | |||
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Prepared for the Worst, Providing the Best |
To answer the second question, no, it does not. The tip of the striker won't even clear the breach face if you release the striker safety lock from the capture point. I would not be surprised if you are correct about the wear on the secondary sear notch. I'm very curious what was going on with those MSP guns that prompted Sig to replace the triggers. I've never seen a dead trigger on a P320 without the trigger being pulled, but it sounds like they had a bunch of them before the guns were even fully in service. And then the subsequent UD and FBI findings...not looking good for Sig. | |||
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Make America Great Again |
Personally, I think they look like some extremely cheap gun parts from an off-brand "midnight special", not what I would expect to see from a (formerly) well-respected gun maker! I'm just happy that all of my SIGs are old-school West German models (both are JJ coded). ____________________________ Bill R. North Alabama _____________________________ Classic West German P-Series Fan... Hammer-Fired Only! | |||
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Thank you. | |||
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Member |
Is that the test? Load your P320. The range is hot. Skip your 320 across the ground. You're good to go if it doesn't go off? I like my right testicle. I wasn't really for appendix carry before this and now I'm pretty certain I'll be fine w/ Something Else I think Sigs last hope is in the 365, which should be the replacement. $$$ | |||
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| Peace through superior firepower  |
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Lost |
Is the wear pattern on the primary sear indicative of a sear perch issue do you think? From page 12: "...both the primary and secondary sear notch edges appeared worn...." The secondary sear wear is a major red flag. How often has the secondary sear engaged that it actually shows wear?? It's still all speculative, but there does seem to be a pattern emerging here, and it doesn't bode well for Sig. | |||
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| Prepared for the Worst, Providing the Best |
I'm not gonna lie...a 47 COA and 43x or 48 seem like they'd make a pretty appealing duty/off-duty combo right about now. | |||
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| Prepared for the Worst, Providing the Best |
I honestly don't know. The fact that the secondary sear is coming into use at all is concerning. My guess is that there was something very wrong with that batch of guns that Sig sent to MSP. But how many other guns were affected by the same issue, or what the issue was, there's no way to know. I have seen wear patterns like that (the drag marks behind the primary sear notch) on numerous sears of guns that have passed all the safety checks and exhibited no problems, so I don't think it's abnormal. I don't have the equipment to adequately examine or measure the angles of the sear notch or the striker hook. I'm just an armorer...not a gunsmith or an engineer. | |||
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| Lost |
^Quite all right. I'm an engineer, but not an actual armorer or gunsmith.  | |||
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| Prepared for the Worst, Providing the Best |
FWIW (Which ain't much), I just stuck a primed case in a P320 and manually depressed the sear with a small screwdriver about 20 times. I pulled up on the slide, clamped the slide against the frame, torqued the grip to either side, and even stuck it in a Safariland duty holster and tried the same. I couldn't get it to fire, and there were no marks on the primer. The striker safety lock just keeps doing it's thing. Either I'm doing the test wrong, or my gun doesn't have the same problems that the MSP guns had. | |||
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I think there’s a good chance that SIG could reduce a great number of their problems if they manufacture their components in house. I truly believe that part of the problem and the reason why so many guns seem to be acting differently is that there is way too much variability in the parts that SIG is getting from their suppliers. I still believe that the 320 design has now been shown to be sub optimal but it’s also possible that it could be made to function more safety and consistently if the parts were more consistent and of better quality and manufactured in house. “It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.” | |||
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| Prepared for the Worst, Providing the Best |
This report definitely supports your position. The fact that they had to replace the triggers on numerous guns for this contract definitely makes me think there was some kind of major QC failure. And it probably went deeper than just the trigger shoes. And then that begs the question, how many guns that weren't a part of this particular contract got parts from the same source with the same problems, and were released into the wild? | |||
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Member |
Sig having QC issues??? Say it ain’t so. Which is reason enough to reconsider making it the tool, you’ll use to defend your life. Whether you agree with the FBI analysis or not, many police depts will choose to reevaluate their risk using the P320, as they don’t want to create there own battery of tests and the $$ required to do so, when there are plenty of well known/tested pistols for use. It wasn’t a Safariland holster and the trigger guard looks completely eonclosed. Joe Back in Tx. | |||
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| When you fall, I will be there to catch you -With love, the floor |
[/QUOTE] Personally, I think they look like some extremely cheap gun parts from an off-brand "midnight special", not what I would expect to see from a (formerly) well-respected gun maker! I'm just happy that all of my SIGs are old-school West German models (both are JJ coded).[/QUOTE] Based of what? Care to tell us the source of these "cheap" parts? Currently there are about ten locations manufacturing many of the parts in house, in NH and AK. Meanwhile, on Page 11,,,
It was noted that a MSP armorer did maintenance on the firearm. | |||
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Down the Rabbit Hole |
Does anyone have a list of agencies, large and small, that have dropped the P320 due to safety concerns? I would love to hear from our law enforcement members with firsthand knowledge. Diligentia, Vis, Celeritas "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell | |||
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| Lost |
And what about our military? Have M17/18 ADs or UDs been a problem? I think I've heard rumors, though not sure how many. | |||
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At my LE job in CA we had an analyst that started just before I did that had just gotten off active duty with the USMC. He was an armorer in the Marines and worked on the new SIG pistols (just like the P320 that I was issued and carried). I don’t recall him discussing uncommanded discharges in particular, but he did say that the guns were not aging well. He didn’t think they were particularly good quality pistols and said that the first batch of pistols that he was working on felt and looked about like the M9s that were in service for much longer. “It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.” | |||
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