quote:

Originally posted by PASig:
I wonder why they went with the Glock 19 when the Glock 17 is more the size of the P320?

Because they had been using the P320 Compact and P320 Carry, not the full size P320.

Prior to that they had used the P229, also a midsize/compact handgun.

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:

quote:

Originally posted by PASig:
I wonder why they went with the Glock 19 when the Glock 17 is more the size of the P320?

Because they had been using the P320 Compact and P320 Carry, not the full size P320.

DOHHH!

That would explain it then

quote:

Originally posted by RogueJSK:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by PASig:


Prior to that they had used the P229, also a midsize/compact handgun.

And a better tool for the job.

So in the end it seems Sig should have conceded that a tabbed trigger might reduce unintended trigger pulls and changed over to one. Would not have been that big a deal moving forward. A wider trigger guard could have gone along with that - but that's a change to all the molding dies for the grip modules

I think they were looking at the cost of another "upgrade" program to install the new triggers. Now they are going to lose a lot of sales.

quote:

Originally posted by Lefty Sig:

I think they were looking at the cost of another "upgrade" program to install the new triggers. Now they are going to lose a lot of sales.

One can only hope. When marketing weapons for defense and law enforcement there is no place for hubris to get in the way of producing a top notch product. I hope this 320 debacle sets SIG back big time. Certainly I hope it sets them back enough to consider that their long term image is more important than an extra nickel per share of quarterly earnings for the stock holders. In the firearms industry, reputation is possibly more important than in just about any other industry. SIG has made themselves a laughing stock in an industry where they were once lauded for producing expensive, but supremely functional, reliable products of the highest quality. Sad to see them dropped from a large federal agency purchaser when SIG was once considered A, if not THE, quintessential fed pistol. When I went through FLETC, there were more SIGs in agency holsters than any other pistol. Sad how far they’ve fallen.

SIG will not put a safety blade on the trigger. It's far too late for that- though, as I've said many times, that is, in my opinion, the solution.

To do so would be to admit they were wrong (or perhaps even negligent, thereby opening themselves up for even more lawsuits) for not doing so long ago. It's just not going to happen.

The only thing we can say to a certainty is that SIG has a real problem on their hands, and any solution to be found ultimately (since they will not apply the needed one), will not be an easy solution.

quote:

Originally posted by Lt CHEG: When marketing weapons for defense and law enforcement there is no place for hubris to get in the way of producing a top notch product.

This statement can not be said often enough or emphasized enough.

My personal opinion is the P320’s striker safety lever design is a bleeding edge design.
The typical striker block safety used in nearly all other semi-auto designs (except the VP9) is proven.
Sig did good to go back to this simplistic, proven design in the P365.

Combine that with a fully cocked striker, no trigger tab safety and what appears to be a MIM sear and Sig pushed the boundaries of stupidity and went full tard.

It would be nice if a tabbed trigger were the solution. It would be a relatively simple and inexpensive way forward, especially because all the agency and military ones could be upgraded at the armorer level. All Sig would have to do is ship the parts.

But the legal and public perception issues being what they are, I highly doubt we see that happen. Also, if there are problems with the striker safety block like the FBI investigation suggests, a tabbed trigger isn't going to solve those either.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
SIG will not put a safety blade on the trigger. It's far too late for that- though, as I've said many times, that is, in my opinion, the solution.

To do so would be to admit they were wrong (or perhaps even negligent, thereby opening themselves up for even more lawsuits) for not doing so long ago. It's just not going to happen.

The only thing we can say to a certainty is that SIG has a real problem on their hands, and any solution to be found ultimately (since they will not apply the needed one), will not be an easy solution.

Definitely between and rock and a hard place. Hard to come back from this, IMO.
Will need a whole new design pistol and it will take years to regain trust of many.

quote:

Originally posted by Blackwater:

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
SIG will not put a safety blade on the trigger. It's far too late for that- though, as I've said many times, that is, in my opinion, the solution.

To do so would be to admit they were wrong (or perhaps even negligent, thereby opening themselves up for even more lawsuits) for not doing so long ago. It's just not going to happen.

The only thing we can say to a certainty is that SIG has a real problem on their hands, and any solution to be found ultimately (since they will not apply the needed one), will not be an easy solution.

Definitely between and rock and a hard place. Hard to come back from this, IMO.
Will need a whole new design pistol and it will take years to regain trust of many.

They did. The P365. That has none of these issues. And a completely re designed fire control unit and striker. That came out after the P320.

Which begs the question, why redesign the whole system when you already had the fully modular P320 designed and, in production.

Sigs behavior during all this is baffling. I will never own a 320. Probably not a 365 either.

That said, I sure would like to see some classic P series guns be introduced. Not Legions or MOS style guns, just run of the mill 220s, 226s, 225s, 228s. I know they would be expensive but no frills versions would help keep the cost down.

I recently watched several videos on the M11-A1. If I had the extra scratch right now I would be very tempted to pick one up.

Oh well. Time marches on.

"The P320, it ends today."

I guess it sure did.

I wonder what Sig's response will be.

Not the development I was hoping for but I'll take any resolution that settles the matter.

Sig Sauer is a privately held company so there's no excuse for chasing the quarter's numbers. It was going to be a financial debacle either way,

quote:

Originally posted by Sgt 127:
Which begs the question, why redesign the whole system when you already had the fully modular P320 designed and, in production.

Because the P320's FCU is fairly chunky, and can't be made to fit inside a true subcompact/microcompact like P365-sized guns.

(The P320 "subcompact" was large by today's standards.)

So they had to go back to the drawing board in order to come up with a more diminutive FCU and firing system to be able to capture that portion of the market.

The P365 FCU can be used in larger medium/full sized pistols, like the XMacro, just by making the grip/slide larger. But the P320 FCU can't be used in smaller pistols, because you cannot shrink the base FCU itself.

quote:

Originally posted by Blackwater:

quote:

Originally posted by Lt CHEG: When marketing weapons for defense and law enforcement there is no place for hubris to get in the way of producing a top notch product.

This statement can not be said often enough or emphasized enough.

My personal opinion is the P320’s striker safety lever design is a bleeding edge design.
The typical striker block safety used in nearly all other semi-auto designs (except the VP9) is proven.
Sig did good to go back to this simplistic, proven design in the P365.

Combine that with a fully cocked striker, no trigger tab safety and what appears to be a MIM sear and Sig pushed the boundaries of stupidity and went full tard.

How does the VP9 trigger work compared to other strike fired pistols? I've always just assumed it was similar to a Glock, just smoother but this Sig 320 situation now has me wondering...

quote:

Originally posted by Blackwater:

Will need a whole new design pistol and it will take years to regain trust of many.

I agree and a duty sized P365 is not the answer regardless of what Ron Cohen thinks.
Glock is going to have their hands full making Gen 5 pistols. I can see this whole P320 debacle delaying the Gen 6 release.

I don't have any P320, P365, or striker fired duty/concealed carry pistols. I don't plan on purchasing any in the future. I don't do Glock's either.
I prefer DA/SA semi automatic pistols or DA/SA revolvers for concealed carry and outdoors activities.
My greatest risk from a P320 un-commanded discharge is at a shooting range or firearms training event.

In the past, wasn't there a holster that was "banned" from many firearms training events due to it causing un-commanded discharges?

Here in upstate NY, there aren't a lot of really good firearms self defense trainers.
I have trained with RPD in the past and know Dave personally.
As a business owner that deals with firearms training, he has to balance his risk exposure with what he allows to take place on his training ranges during SD firearms instruction classes.
This morning, I received this email from him. I have redacted email addresses.

It is my personal opinion that SIG has a real problem on their hands.

P320 email by cee_Kamp 32ACP, on Flickr

quote:

Originally posted by Bongo:

How does the VP9 trigger work compared to other strike fired pistols? I've always just assumed it was similar to a Glock, just smoother but this Sig 320 situation now has me wondering...

https://pistol-forum.com/showt...retical-safety-issue

Hope this helps.
Most other pistols use a plunger type striker safety block.

quote:

Originally posted by cee_Kamp:

In the past, wasn't there a holster that was "banned" from many firearms training events due to it causing un-commanded discharges?

Are you talking about SERPA holsters?

quote:

Originally posted by Bongo:

How does the VP9 trigger work compared to other strike fired pistols? I've always just assumed it was similar to a Glock, just smoother but this Sig 320 situation now has me wondering...

Without being a mechanical expert, I *think it's safer than a P320 (obviously right, lol).

Internet paranoia, maybe Glock still safer?