Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
Prepared for the Worst, Providing the Best |
I agree. But it doesn't. I have beat the everloving shit out a 6360 with a P320 in it...still no boom boom. Maybe I'm just lucky, but there's a whole lot of guys using the same gear in my county who are a lot less careful with their stuff, and they haven't had any problems either. The important things I've found are: a) making sure you have the right holster for your gun and b) Make sure stuff doesn't get inside the holster. Yes, the 6360 has a huge opening. Yes, if I try real hard I can get a finger in there and pull the trigger. If you're gonna carry it you've gotta be aware of that, and act accordingly. Until somebody makes a weapon light that's the same width as the trigger guard, or we opt to not carry weapon lights on duty guns, this is going to be an issue. And not just with Sigs. Going back to point a.)....this is a thing too. We originally had P320 Carry's, with the "compact length" slides. Our vendor incorrectly shipped us several holsters for the full-size model, and we didn't catch it right away. The gun fit fine, but there was a little extra vertical play. We didn't have any NDs, but if you sat down the gun could flex enough in the holster to depress the mag catch against the side of the holster and drop your mag. I figured this out pretty quick, got my sgt to raise hell with the vendor, and they replaced my holster. A buddy from the Sheriff's dept wasn't so lucky. He had the same issue, but he was new, it's a bigger agency, he talked to the wrong person, and they didn't care. So he stuck a sock in the bottom of his holster to tighten up the fit. Thankfully I saw this before it snagged the bangy bits and told him his solution was going to get him shot and he needed to make them get him the right holster. I said something to their firearms guy, too, and it got rectified. But that's the kind of real life stuff that happens at police departments, and why I don't have a hard time believing that 90+% of these incidents are user-induced. ----------------------------------------------------------- Any comments made by this poster are my own and do not reflect the views or opinions of my employer. | |||
|
His Royal Hiney |
If anything, this has made me realize that a holster isn't the end all and be all of gun safety equivalent to putting your gun in a safe. It made me look at my holster for the P226 I'm carrying and I do see the part that covers the trigger guard only covers as far even as the back of the trigger and there's plenty of space on either side. I realized it's the result of how I positioned my light to be completely clear of the trigger guard. I may have to rethink my placement. But either way, that side clearance sure isn't snug. "It did not really matter what we expected from life, but rather what life expected from us. We needed to stop asking about the meaning of life, and instead to think of ourselves as those who were being questioned by life – daily and hourly. Our answer must consist not in talk and meditation, but in right action and in right conduct. Life ultimately means taking the responsibility to find the right answer to its problems and to fulfill the tasks which it constantly sets for each individual." Viktor Frankl, Man's Search for Meaning, 1946. | |||
|
Down the Rabbit Hole |
I don't think you were just lucky at all. This is why it's important to remember just how rare these instances are compared to the number of pistols out there. Diligentia, Vis, Celeritas "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell | |||
|
| Experienced Slacker |
It would suit me just fine if SIG did a re-design of the FCU and covered expenses for a recall. | |||
|
| When you fall, I will be there to catch you -With love, the floor |
Why? There is nothing wrong with it. The preliminary report on the recent military incident is going to be soon released and it will upset all of those YouTube experts who thought they had all the facts. Most of what they claimed to :know" is going to turn out to be totally wrong. | |||
|
| When you fall, I will be there to catch you -With love, the floor |
and yet Safariland is currently doing a redesign on the holster and making it stronger. It's far from a "littler flex". How many of the incidents occupied with the proper holster? Was the combination of pistol and weapon mounted light correct? I'm sure every one carrying buys a new holster if the light is changed to a different model. Seems strange that there haven't been issues with competition style holster which are less robust than the tadeonal Safariland ALS. | |||
|
| Peace through superior firepower  |
Real estate, real estate, gentlemen. Quoting in full in this thread is bloating it badly. Pare down the text you're quoting to its essence. If anyone needs to, they can refer back to the full text. | |||
|
| Left-Handed, NOT Left-Winged! |
Finally, something new to consider - compact length slides in full length holsters. If an agency issues both guns, do they issue matching holsters and get them matched up correctly every time? Do some agencies only buy the full length holster because it will fit both length slides? And second, is the light and holster combination correct? Are people using TLR-1's with Surefire X300 holsters and vice versa? These are things I previously did not even think about. The Streamlight TLR-7 and TLR-9 are narrow and do not need a "bucket" holster, so why isn't anyone using these? | |||
|
Member |
Amen! This needs to be repeated over and over again. “It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.” | |||
|
For real? |
Most our holsters are Glock 19 with TLR-1HL holsters for our Glock 45s. Everyone has a TLR-1 except three people. Those are the three using TLR-7s and I got them holsters for the TLR7. But the TLR-7 isn't bright enough for those of us on night shift and the battery life isn't that great. When we switched to the Glock 45, we switched from the 6360s to whatever the 7 series is. Not minority enough! | |||
|
| Left-Handed, NOT Left-Winged! |
^^^ OK thanks that's good info. The TLR-7 HL-X is bright, but battery life is even shorter. | |||
|
| For real? |
The HL-X has a longer head so it might not fit. I had a custom leather holster made for my staccato c with tlr7hlx. Not minority enough! | |||
|
| Member |
Something rare but "spectacular" will always be perceived as common. Look at all the EV's that have batteries blow up every day. The fact is the numbers are small, and when they are crunched, the worst cars for fires are hybrids, followed by ICE vehicles, and lastly EV's. ---------------The Answer Is There Is No Answer--------------- | |||
|
Member |
I couldn't help but think of Sig's excuses of the P320.  Joe Back in Tx. | |||
|
| Member |
One thing I could not understand about my last agency in CA was their insistence for using Kydex holsters for on or off duty carry. The use of leather holsters was not allowed for even off duty carry. I was one of only a few that was normally in plain clothes so the requirement for kydex for on duty carry was no big deal but I’ve generally preferred high quality, often custom made, leather holsters for off duty carry. I never really understood the reasoning since I’ve never felt that any of my high quality leather holsters offered any less retention than kydex. “It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.” | |||
|
| Member |
Well kydex doesn’t lose its rigidity. Unless you heat it up slowly significantly it will retain the same stiffness as it had on day one. Stiffness directly correlates to keeping the trigger covered, nothing getting in there, and not flexing. Your leather holsters are probably great but what about the guy who won’t toss his hundred dollar leather holsters when it starts getting “loose”. You ran for chief right? If I was an agency I would absolutely mandate the equipment. The gun, the holster, the light, everything. There are a million solid reasons for that. I don’t understand you not understanding this.This message has been edited. Last edited by: pedropcola, | |||
|
| Member |
Not to get too far afield from the main purpose of this thread but I think the answer to this is a typical risk matrix. So something with a fairly low probability of occurrence that has catastrophic consequences can be deemed higher risk than something with a much higher probability of occurrence but with much lower consequences. EV fires are incredibly difficult to extinguish, require far more resources to extinguish, and require far more specialized disposal considerations after the fire is extinguished. There is not currently a good way to extinguish them. I’m not exaggerating when I say that from start to finish 1 EV Fire likely consumes the same resources as 10-15 ICE vehicle fires. So while the occurrence of EV fires might be less frequent than ICE vehicle fires, the results of such a fire are far more catastrophic. With 26 years experience as a volunteer firefighter and about 13 years investigating fires, I absolutely believe that the high hazard characterization for EVs is warranted. After having investigated a number of EV fires over the last few years, I cannot wait to get rid of my plug-in hybrid as soon as it’s financially reasonable to do so. The car has been pretty decent overall, but I really don’t feel like the benefits of ownership outweigh the potential risks. “It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.” | |||
|
| Member |
I was a chief level officer but a couple levels down from those making most of the agency wide policy decisions. I absolutely understand why any agency needs to maintain minimum standards for equipment, that’s an absolute no brainer. Having said that, I believe, especially for off duty carry, that there should be some flexibility in how those standards are achieved. I have a fondness for leather holsters from Mitch Rosen, Milt Sparks and others. I take care of my holsters and get rid of them when they loosen up. I’m quite confident that any of my nice leather holsters actually offered more retention than the kydex holsters I carried. Accordingly, if the required level of retention is maintained, I legitimately don’t believe there is any harm in allowing leather or kydex holsters to be utilized. The engineer in me is very much in favor of performance based standards. “It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.” | |||
|
Frangas non Flectes |
Ok, thank you for the correction and clarification. For the purposes of the point I was trying to make, I'm not sure this actually matters, but I will refrain from calling them Kydex in the interests of not further muddling an already complex issue. If you substitute the correct material name into my post in place of "Kydex," then what I was saying is still applicable. If anything, your clarification simply re-asserts that there's simply nothing a thick plastic, formed duty holster should be able to do to cause a pistol to discharge.
Fair enough. My apologies if I misread you.
I feel like I did answer that, but I'll speak directly to it. It's happening because something is causing the gun to discharge while holstered, and that's something they shouldn't do. I'm not being a smartass here, either. When you boil it all down, whether it's a big "bucket" style rigid formed plastic (of Kydex or whichever brand and formulation) duty holster meant for a light and optic, or whether it's an OWB style detective's type holster as in at least a few cases I'm aware of, the gun should not go off in a holster. Saying or implying it's the holster's fault for some unknown reason ignores the fact that it's the gun going off, and not the holster. I maintain that a holster should not cause a well-designed, safe-to-carry pistol to discharge, whether by flexing or jarring or banging. I know we agree on that. Where my mind takes it to is "if it does, it's the gun, not the holster." Now, if that means that there's things on the gun getting compressed or depressed or flexed or whatever in the course of being carried in the holster that's causing it to discharge, I have an easy time seeing that because when you're just handling or shooting a pistol, you're not holding onto everything a holster touches. If that's what's going on, I still put that on Sig and not the holster. ______________________________________________ "If the truth shall kill them, let them die.” Endeavoring to master the subtle art of the grapefruit spoon. | |||
|
| Left-Handed, NOT Left-Winged! |
The question is how often ND's are occurring with other guns in similar holsters. They ARE occurring, they are just not getting attention because the guns in question have already been proven safe and ND's are written off as operator error. | |||
|
| Powered by Social Strata | Page 1 ... 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 ... 93 |
 | Please Wait. Your request is being processed... |
|
© SIGforum 2026