quote:

Originally posted by Blackwater:
Many here are more gracious to Robert’s video than the comments on YT.

The "commenters" on YT have no credentials or expertise and cannot disprove anything in Robert Burke's 5/30 testimony.
They are heavily invested in their P320 hate and are lashing out in frustration.

quote:

It didn’t give me a warm and fuzzy to go buy an Sig and carry it AIWB, but he was convinced by Sig there wasn’t a problem and decided he didn’t need to release his proposed “fix”. So there is that.

That's your opinion based on assumptions, not fact.

quote:

IMO…I think the damage to Sig and the P320 may be irreversible. Perception is as important as whatever the reality may be about the P320. More importantly for me Sig’s flippant and condescending attitude are the issue. Plenty of other polymer guns out to choose from.

We are entitled to our opinions and mine is that P320 confidence increased substantially with Robert Burke's 5/30 testimony.
Especially for those who know who Robert Burke is and what his qualifications are.

quote:

Originally posted by DirectDrive:
The "commenters" on YT have no credentials or expertise and cannot disprove anything in Robert Burke's 5/30 testimony.
They are heavily invested in their P320 hate and are lashing out in frustration.

No offense, but that is also your opinion based on assumptions, not fact.

quote:

Originally posted by MacGyver:

quote:

Originally posted by DirectDrive:
The "commenters" on YT have no credentials or expertise and cannot disprove anything in Robert Burke's 5/30 testimony.
They are heavily invested in their P320 hate and are lashing out in frustration.

No offense, but that is also your opinion based on assumptions, not fact.

If they want to disprove anything in that testimony, let them prove it.
In the meantime, wailing and bomb throwing with no evidence supports my opinion.

quote:

Originally posted by DirectDrive:

quote:

Originally posted by MacGyver:

quote:

Originally posted by DirectDrive:
The "commenters" on YT have no credentials or expertise and cannot disprove anything in Robert Burke's 5/30 testimony.
They are heavily invested in their P320 hate and are lashing out in frustration.

No offense, but that is also your opinion based on assumptions, not fact.

If they want to disprove anything in that testimony, let them prove it.
In the meantime, wailing and bomb throwing with no evidence supports my opinion.

He was ready to release a “fix”, so he thought it was a problem. His statements appear to be based on reassurance from Sig.

Whether sig was sending or mixing batches of take down levers has not been sufficiently answered.

It was drop safe at one time too, wasn’t it?

There are many that think and will opine that Sig’s assurance is suspect and ultimately Sig had to be shown by a third party how gun can go off on it’s own. One of those YT’ers. It ends now. LOL

Be patient toward all that is unsolved in your heart
and to try to love the questions themselves
like locked rooms and like books that are written
in a very foreign tongue.
Do not now seek the answers,
which cannot be given you
because you would not be able to live them.
And the point is, to live everything.
Live the questions now.
Perhaps you will then gradually, without noticing it,
live along some distant day
into the answer.

– Rainer Maria Rilke

quote:

Originally posted by Blackwater:

quote:

Originally posted by DirectDrive:

quote:

Originally posted by MacGyver:

quote:

Originally posted by DirectDrive:
The "commenters" on YT have no credentials or expertise and cannot disprove anything in Robert Burke's 5/30 testimony.
They are heavily invested in their P320 hate and are lashing out in frustration.

No offense, but that is also your opinion based on assumptions, not fact.

If they want to disprove anything in that testimony, let them prove it.
In the meantime, wailing and bomb throwing with no evidence supports my opinion.

He was ready to release a “fix”, so he thought it was a problem. His statements appear to be based on reassurance from Sig.

Whether sig was sending or mixing batches of take down levers has not been sufficiently answered.

It was drop safe at one time too, wasn’t it?

There are many that think and will opine that Sig’s assurance is suspect and ultimately Sig had to be shown by a third party how gun can go off on it’s own. One of those YT’ers. It ends now. LOL

If someone is about to release a "FIX" for a safety issue, that SHOULD mean that whoever is creating the "FIX" should have a thorough understanding of the issue and the remedy. When it turns out not to be the case, I'm not sure how a total 180 degree change of heart strengthens SIGs argument that the guns are safe.

He who knows not, and knows not he knows not. He is a fool; shun him.
He who knows not, and knows he knows not. He is simple; teach him.
He who knows, and knows not he knows. He is asleep; wake him.
He who knows, and knows he knows. He is wise; follow him.

- Arabic Proverb

I still have a couple 320's. They still are extremely easy to shoot fast and accurately. I have moved on to other pastures. I think commercially the 320 is done. If you haven't already bought a 320 I doubt you will. I don't believe any of these guns ever shot without the trigger being pulled but at a certain point it doesn't matter to the marketplace.

Sig is screwed in regard to this gun. Right or wrong the die is cast on this one in my mind. I do think the Robert Burke stuff came off oddly. I got a fix, oh maybe I don't. Maybe I misread the chronology but it certainly seems strange/manipulated/hard to believe. Whatever.

I am glad I got off the 320 train early. Of course that means my 320's will never be sold or traded except at a low value point and that sucks. Oh well, like I said, they still are great shooters.

"True wisdom comes to each of us when we realize how little we understand about life, ourselves, and P320 uncommanded discharges." - Socrates

The only reason I would avoid a P320 is my personal preference for hammer-fired rather than striker-fired. Irrational, I know, but there it is.

For all of the subjective reasons we don’t buy certain handguns:

“West German Sigs are better“
”P&R Smiths are better”
“Pre-lock Smiths are better”
“I won’t buy plastic”
“Triggers suck on Smith M&Ps”
“Glocks are blocky, I’ll never buy one”

P320s now have enough objective reasons that I won’t fault anyone who doesn’t buy one.

Perhaps no gun is perfect; but if there is a perfect pistol it might be the current P320 Nitron Compact.

quote:

Originally posted by landowner:
Perhaps no gun is perfect; but if there is a perfect pistol it might be the current P320 Nitron Compact.

I know you’re new, and I know you’re enjoying your Sig. I really enjoy that and I hope you stick around and have a good time here. But at the same time, given this thread, I need you to read the room or at least the thread title.

quote:

Originally posted by OttoSig:
For all of the subjective reasons we don’t buy certain handguns:

“West German Sigs are better“
”P&R Smiths are better”
“Pre-lock Smiths are better”
“I won’t buy plastic”
“Triggers suck on Smith M&Ps”
“Glocks are blocky, I’ll never buy one”

P320s now have enough objective reasons that I won’t fault anyone who doesn’t buy one.

Yup. Plenty of those reasons may not be factually supported, but the beauty of a capitalist society is that we're free to have our own opinions, make our own choices, and have a market to supply an almost endless variety of options. Given what's been going on, I wouldn't fault anyone for not wanting to buy a P320 right now.

Landowner, I'd recommend that you read through this thread and watch some of the videos. There's a couple other recent ones on here as well with additional info. It's worthwhile to at least be aware of the allegations and testing that is being done to identify if there's a problem. If nothing else, it will reinforce the need for good trigger discipline habits! But being informed is important, whatever decision you ultimately decide to make.

For what it's worth, I still like my P320s. I wore one yesterday for work and I'm planning to shoot another in a match on Sunday. I've been doing my research, staying up on the news, re-took the armorer course and conducted inspections, and I'm as confident as I can be with the information currently available that at least my examples are functioning as designed. I'm not enjoying all the drama, wish we had definitive answers, and if a fault is found that applies to my guns I'll pursue a fix, but so far I've experienced nothing but reliable service from the platform.

quote:

I know you’re new, and I know you’re enjoying your Sig. I really enjoy that and I hope you stick around and have a good time here. But at the same time, given this thread, I need you to read the room or at least the thread title.

Rest assured, I read the room, and I read the title.

Not that there's anything new or breaking news in this thread.

quote:

Landowner, I'd recommend that you read through this thread and watch some of the videos. There's a couple other recent ones on here as well with additional info. It's worthwhile to at least be aware of the allegations and testing that is being done to identify if there's a problem. If nothing else, it will reinforce the need for good trigger discipline habits! But being informed is important, whatever decision you ultimately decide to make.

For what it's worth, I still like my P320s. I wore one yesterday for work and I'm planning to shoot another in a match on Sunday. I've been doing my research, staying up on the news, re-took the armorer course and conducted inspections, and I'm as confident as I can be with the information currently available that at least my examples are functioning as designed. I'm not enjoying all the drama, wish we had definitive answers, and if a fault is found that applies to my guns I'll pursue a fix, but so far I've experienced nothing but reliable service from the platform.

Rest assured, I read the thread, although I found no content opinions that I wasn't already aware of.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: landowner,

If anybody can show a clear video of an accidental discharge from any current P320 model (post-2017 and without modifications), whether re-holstering or drop test or anything else, where we can visibly verify no human interaction with the trigger, please post it in reply to this message.

I'll wait.

quote:

Originally posted by OttoSig:

quote:

Originally posted by landowner:
Perhaps no gun is perfect; but if there is a perfect pistol it might be the current P320 Nitron Compact.

I know you’re new, and I know you’re enjoying your Sig. I really enjoy that and I hope you stick around and have a good time here. But at the same time, given this thread, I need you to read the room or at least the thread title.

1) Do you know who Robert Burke is ?
2) Have you watched his video testimony of 5/30 ?

quote:

Originally posted by landowner:
If anybody can show a clear video of an accidental discharge from any current P320 model (post-2017 and without modifications), whether re-holstering or drop test or anything else, where we can visibly verify no human interaction with the trigger, please post it in reply to this message.

I'll wait.

Grayguns:
https://www.facebook.com/grayg...eos/694991283149275/

LFD Research:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7H4Ri409-5I
A round discharges at 18:33. No finger on the trigger.

Nope.

These examples clearly do not rise to the challenge I issued above, as interesting as they may be academically.

Frankly, I think at this point it's worth calling out that some social media folks are jumping on a bandwagon by posting abitrary "what if" videos for clicks:-

quote:

Grayguns:
https://www.facebook.com/grayg...eos/694991283149275/

As the post states:-

"this issue does not occur under normal use, and requires an incorrect part to be installed in the gun, as well as multiple specific failures"

quote:

LFD Research:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7H4Ri409-5I
A round discharges at 18:33. No finger on the trigger.

To quote the video's description, this example involves a 10mm or 45 FCU in a 9mm pistol as well as other mistakes:-

"when the wrong combination of (incorrect) parts and hasty reassembly are combined issues can occur."