quote:

Originally posted by DirectDrive:

I agree, P320 is not a good choice for duty gun, IMO.
Safariland has put out safety bulletins and has made rolling changes in their holsters.

Rolling safety changes just for the P320? It seems like it's quite the balancing act to get it right with this design.

quote:

Originally posted by DirectDrive:
Blade safety is not the fix, as history shows.

I think not. "as history shows" does not qualify as evidence.

quote:

Originally posted by Jupiter:

quote:

Originally posted by DirectDrive:

I agree, P320 is not a good choice for duty gun, IMO.
Safariland has put out safety bulletins and has made rolling changes in their holsters.

Rolling safety changes just for the P320? It seems like it's quite the balancing act to get it right with this design.

No, I was talking about the holsters.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:

quote:

Originally posted by DirectDrive:
Blade safety is not the fix, as history shows.

I think not. "as history shows" does not qualify as evidence.

Well, history that reveals facts is a thing, in my opinion.
And we all have opinions.

Here's a historical fact about an item that many have not thought of.
So we have advocates for the trigger blade safety, but to have a trigger blade safety you have to have an additional pin to retain the safety.
See here :
https://www.daytondailynews.co...GnnkXQjfJrWUTSYKt0J/
Whenever I clean a Glock, I look at that pin.

quote:

Originally posted by DirectDrive:
Well, history that reveals facts is a thing, in my opinion.
And we all have opinions.

Why bother posting nonsense?

quote:

...but to have a trigger blade safety you have to have an additional pin to retain the safety.
See here :
https://www.daytondailynews.co...GnnkXQjfJrWUTSYKt0J/

It's my mistake for taking you seriously, a mistake I won't make again, you can be sure of that. You want to use an example of a system failure to condemn the system entirely. Ridiculous, and not a valid argument.

quote:

Originally posted by DirectDrive:

quote:

Originally posted by Jupiter:

quote:

Originally posted by DirectDrive:

I agree, P320 is not a good choice for duty gun, IMO.
Safariland has put out safety bulletins and has made rolling changes in their holsters.

Rolling safety changes just for the P320? It seems like it's quite the balancing act to get it right with this design.

No, I was talking about the holsters.

I was asking if Safariland was only having to make rolling safety changes to their P320 holster design.

quote:

Originally posted by Jupiter:

quote:

Originally posted by DirectDrive:

quote:

Originally posted by Jupiter:

quote:

Originally posted by DirectDrive:

I agree, P320 is not a good choice for duty gun, IMO.
Safariland has put out safety bulletins and has made rolling changes in their holsters.

Rolling safety changes just for the P320? It seems like it's quite the balancing act to get it right with this design.

No, I was talking about the holsters.

I was asking if Safariland was only having to make rolling safety changes to their P320 holster design.

That, I am not sure of.
One change that I've seen is about closing the gap around the trigger area.
The safety bulletins I believe can be found on the Safariland site.

DirectDrive, that was needlessly harsh of me to say I can no longer take you seriously on any subject, just because of this one subject. I retract the comment.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
DirectDrive, that was needlessly harsh of me to say I can no longer take you seriously on any subject, just because of this one subject. I retract the comment.

No offense taken.
We all have our own opinions on the P320 controversy.
Sometimes we don't agree.

quote:

Originally posted by DirectDrive:
That, I am not sure of.
One change that I've seen is about closing the gap around the trigger area.
The safety bulletins I believe can be found on the Safariland site.

The weapon mounted lights are an issue, no doubt. I discovered I could pull the trigger on my issue G22 with my finger.

Saw the Rangemaster…hey. Clear your weapon. I can fire it in the holster.

No you can’t…try.

Click.

WTF?

But, the Sig P320 has a disturbingly common habit of that happening. I’m still not convinced that something flexing enough between the slide and the frame to let go of the sear.

The first thing is to come up with weapon mounted lights the same width as the frame. That will reduce that bucket opening that lets stuff get in there.

Second, add a dingus to the trigger.

IF P320’s keep going bang…something else is happening.

quote:

Originally posted by Sgt 127:

quote:

Originally posted by DirectDrive:
That, I am not sure of.
One change that I've seen is about closing the gap around the trigger area.
The safety bulletins I believe can be found on the Safariland site.

The weapon mounted lights are an issue, no doubt. I discovered I could pull the trigger on my issue G22 with my finger.

Saw the Rangemaster…hey. Clear your weapon. I can fire it in the holster.

No you can’t…try.

Click.

WTF?

But, the Sig P320 has a disturbingly common habit of that happening. I’m still not convinced that something flexing enough between the slide and the frame to let go of the sear.

The first thing is to come up with weapon mounted lights the same width as the frame. That will reduce that bucket opening that lets stuff get in there.

Second, add a dingus to the trigger.

IF P320’s keep going bang…something else is happening.

I see that big gap where a trigger can be manipulated while holstered in the Safariland 6300 series of holster. The 7300 series makes that a much much more difficult of a proposition.

I retired 2 years ago from a department of about 100 people. We were issued the 320 carry in ‘16 after years of issuing the 220. Around ‘19 or so we upgraded to the RXP carry.

I was lead firearms instructor and a former ERT guy/ commander blah blah blah. I’ve seen guys fall against stuff, bump into door ways etc…so hard they shattered the optics. This has happened more than once, not a single time did the pistols fire. Guys were getting into fights with people bumping into cars and the pavement, no NDs.

I hate to admit it but I’ve dropped my personally owned 320 on a tile floor, so hard I have a chip in the floor. I had a bad case of the squirts! I ran into the bathroom while pulling down my pants, the pistol flew out of the holster and landed pretty damned hard. I just waited for the flash. No ND

I really don’t know what to think of this whole situation. My gut tells me in some extreme circumstances the pistol can fire on its on. Maybe it’s tolerance stacking or something else, I don’t know. I have an Xten comp that I absolutely adore. It’s the only striker pistol that I enjoy shooting as much if not more than my classics. After seeing the latest video from a couple of days ago I won’t carry it. And I certainly wouldn’t appendix carry it! I just don’t have the confidence that 320 is safe. I just came to this conclusion after years of defending the pistol.

I know I’m a nobody and my opinion is worth what you guys paid for it but I just wanted to relay my experience and thoughts on it.


ETA we had a very, very good firearms program. We only fired one static qualification course once a year. The rest was timed (penalized for misses) moving while shooting courses. There was a minimum time & miss allowance for everything we did. We tracked each deputy and the training was course was done on 3 year cycles. So far we haven’t lost a deputy in a gunfight. One was shot last year but he disabled the BG with returned fire. We put a lot of rounds down range a year, a lot…

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Ghostface7.62,

Did you watch that video, Chris?

So, this information in the video, has been known since August of 2024. And, was not released until a FOI request was made. I’m guessing Sig was privy to it. But, didn’t address it.

I’m pretty sure this was before their infamous “This ends NOW!” Campaign.

Not a good look Sig.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
Did you watch that video, Chris?

Yes.

Let's cite the actual report shown in the video:

"A reliable test could not be developed at the time of this document..."

"*if* complete sear engagement is lost"

"It is important to note that the Striker Safety Lock, by design, is the last safety in line... to protect against a secondary sear notch override"

"... examination of the subject weapon did not independently provide evidence of an uncommanded discharge..."

"*may* be possible *if* sear engagement is lost...

"merits further exploration to fully assess *potential* risk."

"SIG Sauer M18... with X Flat Blade Trigger."

"an MSP armorer... installed the subject weapon's modified trigger"

"it was observed that the spring was not fully seated on its post"

"*If* the striker safety lock spring leg lost engagement with the top of the striker safety lock, the lock would no longer be spring-loaded and could *possibly* seize or "free-float" rendering the striker safety lock inoperable."

"abrasion... inside the trigger guard..." (Fig. 13.)

"... striker safety lock was disabled based on the partial trigger press"

"The staff member was able to force his trigger into the holster and contact the trigger..."

"... was holding objects in his hands when the event occurred, including his keys..."

"BRF was successful in using keys, both flat and serrated, to press the trigger while the M18 was holstered."

"THE TRIGGER COULD BE FULLY PRESSED TO THE REAR WITH SUFFICIENT PRESSURE AGAINST THE SIDE OF THE TRIGGER ONLY, OR BY USING THE HOLSTER AS A FULCRUM."

"... the keys caused an abrasion on the trigger guard near the area of the abrasion seen on the weapon..."

That's a good, detailed report. I'd like to get a copy of it so I can read through it for myself instead of having to listen to that snarky dude read through it.

The question I now have is what is mechanically happening inside the gun when it's manipulated (pulled apart/pushed together) to cause the striker safety to be defeated without a trigger pull. Because I absolutely agree that shouldn't happen. I want to understand how those manipulations affect the relationship between the parts resulting in that outcome.

ETA: I just pulled an FCU out of a grip module and stuck it on a slide without the grip so that I could see the striker safety lock and safety lever. No matter how I twisted, pulled, or pushed on the FCU I couldn't create a condition that depressed the striker safety lock. Maybe I'm doing it wrong. I'd like more details about how they did that test.

Thanks for the breakdown, landowner.
Sounds like a long-winded nothing burger to me, ushered along by the drama provided by the Youtuber.

The concept of the striker safety being disabled by twisting motion does not seem possible if one is familiar with the P320.

quote:

"an MSP armorer... installed the subject weapon's modified trigger"

Didn't the video say is was modified to bring the trigger back into spec, due to the original being out-of-spec?