Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
Down the Rabbit Hole |
Maybe. The P365 does seem to be a better design than the P320. They got a lot right about the P365 and the P320 for that matter. A P365 with the durability of a G43x would be the cat's meow. Diligentia, Vis, Celeritas "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell | |||
|
Prepared for the Worst, Providing the Best |
Sig's response: | |||
|
| Down the Rabbit Hole |
Phil looks like he has a gun to his head during the interview.  Diligentia, Vis, Celeritas "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell | |||
|
| What is the soup du jour? |
I'll be dead before I watch a video from Tim @ the MAC. Nothing that dude does can be trusted. | |||
|
Member |
The damage control rep from Sig is making the early drop safety issue out to be some type of anomaly that if you held your breath, stood on one foot, and dropped the gun while chanting some ancient spell, the gun might have went off. Not so. It was easy to get it to do it. I had one I dropped it from shoulder height and had a dead trigger after dropping it on a carpeted floor. They scrambled to "fix" the problem and ended up creating another. The only polymer SIG I'd trust is the SP series. I have two, and they are phenomenal. | |||
|
Sigforum K9 handler |
Well shit, now on top of all the derogatory stuff I get called. Glock apologist. M&P apologist. Yeah, you remember Glocks that wouldn’t function when you hung a light on them? Remember the M&P dead triggers? Or all the other issues? And how the companies denied there was a problem? Pepperidge Farms remembers. | |||
|
| Prepared for the Worst, Providing the Best |
So apart from the unreplicatable and unproven spontaneous discharge issue, what is the quality problem with the P320? I have four of them and have thousands and thousands of rounds through them. I can't remember the last time I had a malfunction, and apart from scheduled maintenance I've never had to replace a part. I love my P22X guns, but I've had more failures with those than I have my 320s, and I shoot the 320 a lot more and work it a lot harder. I'd actually kind of forgotten what it's like to have to deal with an unreliable gun until I shot a USPSA match this weekend, and just within our squad watched people fight issues with a couple of really nice 1911s and an XD. My 320 didn't even hiccup. In addition to my personal guns, I am also responsible for maintaining 15 more at work, and I work closely with the guys who are responsible for about 150 more on top of that. We don't have problems with them. We literally just don't. In 8 years of use, apart from the "voluntary upgrade" situation which Sig took care of for us seamlessly, I can only think of one actual parts breakage in our county that I'm aware of...a broken extractor on a high-round count gun that was issued to an instructor. In the other handful of cases where we've had to look at a gun outside of scheduled maintenance, it's always been user error or lack of maintenance. The guys like them, too. When we get issued bad gear, everybody hears about it. The bitching never ceases until it's gone. I don't know as I've heard one bad word about the P320s. They are easy to shoot well and we can customize them to accommodate even the midgets and left-handed freaks of nature. I think I'd have a riot on my hands if I tried to take them away at this point. | |||
|
| Savor the limelight |
A P320? | |||
|
Lost |
Disappointed that they never discussed manual safeties. Inadvertant key intrusions causing ADs? A slide safety would have stopped that. | |||
|
| Member |
You'd have a riot on your hands to get rid of them the first time one blows out the bottom of a holster, too. The PD I work for had a evaluation process for new duty pistols. The P320 won the popular vote, but was shot down by the safety committee and armorers. We went with the M&P metal frame with an ACRO and TLR-1HL. Very solid guns. I'm not an armorer, but I am a part-time firearms instructor and I can say the guns have been flawless. ACROS have had a few hiccups, but Aimpoint is taking care of them. We have about 640 sworn officers for reference. I was in the M&P or Glock camp based on my experience with a personally owned P320 and the issues we were starting to have with our previous P226 models. MIM parts breaking left and right. I had two magazine releases fail in the first 400 rounds. The mags would just drop free while shooting. We had a guy who's hammer broke in half. So I guess I'm speaking more to SIG as a company than to the p320 specifically. I know our guys had some issues with SIG long guns as well. | |||
|
Member |
Thx for this voice of truth, facts, and reason. The emotional infants on this are incapable of comprehending. Its easier to "feel". ________,_____________________________ Guns don't kill people - Alec Baldwin kills people. He's never been a straight shooter. | |||
|
| Member |
That's hilarious. I guess all of the LE departments that are banning them and the people who have had uncommanded discharges are just silly and immature, too. | |||
|
Member |
If you're bored here's some more stuff from Forgotten Weapons (resonable/nuanced overview and commentary) https://youtu.be/3iWVs2uD1XY?si=y1TYjIygkMLCrLdz And MAC (SIG interview, total gaslighting from what it looks like) https://youtu.be/NzHHUmqHA9k?si=CkE6oLwtGTlt_cYr --------------------------- My hovercraft is full of eels. | |||
|
| Prepared for the Worst, Providing the Best |
Believe me, that thought has definitely been on my mind. I don't have any authority to make decisions, but I feel like it's my responsibility to keep the boss informed on any developments with the guns. It's a hard sell for him to go the the council, though, and ask for tax dollars to buy new guns and holsters when no mechanical problem has been identified, Sig insists the guns are safe, and there have been no problems with the ones we have, or any at neighboring agencies. If any of those things changes, it could be grounds to re-evaluate...which is why I am doing my best to stay current on developments including watching this thread. | |||
|
| Member |
I get it, for sure. I was surprised when our results of the officer evaluations were for the P320. I was even more surprised when the safety committee and range supervisor nixed it. I happen to agree with their decision, but I was surprised when it happened. I hope you guys don't have any issues, and the odds are very much in your favor, but there is still that little bit of doubt that the guns are completely safe. | |||
|
| Member |
You don’t think command staff ever makes over the top knee jerk emotional rules and regs? Which may or may not be the case in some of these actions. As said on the Wire… shhhhhiiiittttttt……. | |||
|
Member |
I think this guy is doing the most thorough investigation and is on to something. His latest vid https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_30DVjmaJs Joe Back in Tx. | |||
|
| Lost |
^I hope he's right. Nice if the fix is not redesigning anything, not adding anything, just cutting a piece off a pre-existing part. That would take care of the UCDs, if valid. Then still add the tab trigger and slide safety. | |||
|
| Prepared for the Worst, Providing the Best |
I agree that that guy may be on to something. I still think he needs to do his testing with a barrel installed and the gun in actual battery/lockup to validate his results, but his theory does make sense. I've tried replicating the issue with all of my P320s and can't get any of them to strike a primer, but that doesn't mean that there aren't guns out there that will. IMO this demands a response from Sig. And not some sales/marketing asshole, either...an actual engineer. I'd like to know what the intended function of that rear sear leg extension is in the design, if it's actually necessary, and what the consequences are of removing it. I'd also like to know if they've tested the sear/safety lever timing on guns involved in suspected UDs. And why some guns seem to exhibit this behavior while others don't. I'm not in a rush to go modifying parts without understanding the full consequences, and it sounds like video guy agrees with that. But I think his theory is plausible enough that it warrants a full investigation. If he's right, it's a pretty simple fix. The part wouldn't cost much, and replacement could be performed at the armorer level so at least LE/MIL guns wouldn't have to go back to Sig. If this really is a problem, the biggest hurdle is going to be getting the lawyers to admit it, not implementing the fix itself. | |||
|
| Down the Rabbit Hole |
Thanks for posting the link, Blackwater. With the level of disagreement and controversy with this pistol, even among engineers and highly skilled gunsmiths, the P320 is just not worth looking for another cobbled together fix with no guarantee other issues will not pop up again. Diligentia, Vis, Celeritas "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -- George Orwell | |||
|
| Powered by Social Strata | Page 1 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 12 |
 | Please Wait. Your request is being processed... |
|
© SIGforum 2025