quote:

Originally posted by DirectDrive:
1) Do you know who Robert Burke is ?
2) Have you watched his video testimony of 5/30 ?

I can't speak for Otto, but from my perspective:-

1) Yes.
2) Yes (on his FB page which I follow).

Thus, I'll re-iterate my original challenge. Should be easy to fulfil my request?

If anybody can show a clear video of an accidental discharge from any current P320 model (post-2017 and without modifications), whether re-holstering or drop test or anything else, where we can visibly verify no human interaction with the trigger, please post it in reply to this message.

I'll wait.

I don’t have video of the titan submersible imploding, but I’m no going down to the titanic in a carbon fiber sub either.

I’m really glad you like your P320, I too liked mine.

quote:

Originally posted by OttoSig:
I don’t have video of the titan submersible imploding, but I’m no going down to the titanic in a carbon fiber sub either.

I’m really glad you like your P320, I too liked mine.

Duly noted that you don't have the evidence I requested.

Only 1 of those submarines was deployed in that scenario and the reports of its Hull failure are not disputed. It dove but never surfaced.

False equivalence fallacy and also a straw man fallacy to cite this as an argument to explain the lack of evidence for anecdotal claims about P320 AD.

quote:

Originally posted by landowner:

quote:

Originally posted by OttoSig:
I don’t have video of the titan submersible imploding, but I’m no going down to the titanic in a carbon fiber sub either.

I’m really glad you like your P320, I too liked mine.

Duly noted that you don't have the evidence I requested.

Only 1 of those submarines was deployed in that scenario and the reports of its Hull failure are not disputed. It dove but never surfaced.

False equivalence fallacy and also a straw man fallacy to cite this as an argument to explain the lack of evidence for anecdotal claims about P320 AD.

Not sure you see how cringeworthy your posts are considering two days ago you were asking the benefits of safety eyewear for shooting.

I’m not sure what your “challenge” is in response to. Enjoy your P320, you don’t have to justify it to me.

Stop it. Welcome to the forum.

quote:

Originally posted by markand:

quote:

Originally posted by landowner:
If anybody can show a clear video of an accidental discharge from any current P320 model (post-2017 and without modifications), whether re-holstering or drop test or anything else, where we can visibly verify no human interaction with the trigger, please post it in reply to this message.

I'll wait.

Grayguns:
https://www.facebook.com/grayg...eos/694991283149275/

LFD Research:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7H4Ri409-5I
A round discharges at 18:33. No finger on the trigger.

LFD (Hawaiian Shirt Guy) has wrong parts and omitted parts in his P320 experiment.
No P320 involved in a ND has been shown to have this mish-mash of wrong and missing parts.
Later, Hawaiian Shirt Guy made this statement on social media :

This message has been edited. Last edited by: DirectDrive,

^^^ As far as the LFD guy goes, I don't think he was trying to prove that the issue he found was the cause of any suspected UDs...I think it was more just an exercise to show that a configuration of parts does exist that could cause failed sear engagement. Ultimately, regardless of his intent, that's my takeaway from his project. And Grayguns apparently agrees.


This video below is probably the closest thing out there to showing a clear view of what may be a discharge without a trigger pull.

His finger is clearly not on the trigger.

I don't see any obvious protrusion of garments or other gear near the opening of the holster.

I don't love the way he forcefully re-holsters.

I don't like the style of holster and how it locks onto the trigger guard.

We also don't have any background information, and can't see if there is anything in the holster that actuated the trigger.

I'd really like more details on this one.

^^ Blackhawk Serpa??

quote:

Originally posted by OttoSig:

quote:

Originally posted by landowner:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by OttoSig:
I don’t have video of the titan submersible imploding, but I’m no going down to the titanic in a carbon fiber sub either.

I’m really glad you like your P320, I too liked mine.

Duly noted that you don't have the evidence I requested.

Only 1 of those submarines was deployed in that scenario and the reports of its Hull failure are not disputed. It dove but never surfaced.

False equivalence fallacy and also a straw man fallacy to cite this as an argument to explain the lack of evidence for anecdotal claims about P320 AD.

Not sure you see how cringeworthy your posts are considering two days ago you were asking the benefits of safety eyewear for shooting.

I’m not sure what your “challenge” is in response to. Enjoy your P320, you don’t have to justify it to me.

Stop it. Welcome to the forum.[/Rol

Cringe? Naw….
Sig P320’s can be had at a discount. Buy em up gents, good luck selling them, when the Signess wears off.

I’m sure all the uncommanded discharges are part of a grand conspiracy against Sig and there is no way in hell,
Sig with their penchant for unquestionable QC didn’t mix batches of trigger bars or safety levers (MIM or stamped) and various engineering revisions of those parts were in NO way responsible for any of these reports.
I’m glad you’re so sure of Sig, I’m not.

Ya know what I find rather interesting with all the phantom discharges (>100 reported), only one brand and model of pistol is accounting for them. The P320.

I mean what are the odds??? Holsters with designs for different brand handguns… only the holsters designed for the P320 cause issues?
So the holsters are in on the conspiracy? Got it.
So much so, that Sig had to warn users of light bearing holsters and their involvement in the conspiracy!!
Any other gun makers do this?

I’ll wait.
https://www.sigsauer.com/blog/...holsters-for-pistols

If Sig was as sure of it not being the gun, they would’ve never settled a single case.

quote:

Originally posted by 92fstech:
[FLASH_VIDEO]<iframe frameborder="0" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/O1v9WaXg0eQ?si=Uk9tp31CRHjeyzf8" title="YouTube video player" width="560"></iframe>[/FLASH_VIDEO]

Apparently this guy has a finger inside the trigger guard and he's using a Serpa holster.
That was the consensus when this video came out a few days ago.
Could have been the Serpa locking device that caught the trigger as he was slamming it home.

quote:

Originally posted by nhracecraft:
^^ Blackhawk Serpa??

I think it's one of those IMI defense copies, but similar (horrible) design.

quote:

Originally posted by 92fstech:
^^^ As far as the LFD guy goes, I don't think he was trying to prove that the issue he found was the cause of any suspected UDs...I think it was more just an exercise to show that a configuration of parts does exist that could cause failed sear engagement. Ultimately, regardless of his intent, that's my takeaway from his project. And Grayguns apparently agrees.

Hawaiian Shirt Guy is just another amateur gun hack making Youtube videos for monetary gain.
I am surprised that Gray Guns spent so much time on it.
In any event no P320 involved in an ND has ever been shown to have this mish-mash of wrong parts and missing parts.

quote:

Originally posted by DirectDrive:
In any event no P320 involved in an ND has ever been shown to have this mish-mash of wrong parts and missing parts.

Interesting. I would like to see the source of this.

For me, swapping out parts, that don’t even belong in the gun. Breaking a few others. Removing a few springs. Only proves you can MAKE a gun unsafe, with enough work.

It does not address the problem at all.

If I take a 1911…stone the hammer hooks down to the thickness of a human hair. Grind the nub of the thumb safety. Cut off the arm from the grip safety. And bend back all three fingers on the trigger spring, precariously perch the sear on the hammer hooks and give it a good jostle, it too will fire.

It seems the Grayguns video is more intended to prove how safe the gun UNLESS an absolutely amazing amount of effort is required to make it fire.

Which, is not the question. We are talking about unmolested, reasonably well maintained, not abused, police and military guns going off by themselves.

Or…they are not.

But, there seems to be more Sig P320’s going off uncommanded than all the other striker fired guns out there.

I can make a P320 uncommanded fire easier than Grayguns. Based on that criteria.

I’ll just take out the firing pin safety. Or, break it. Or, remove the spring. Stone down the hammer and sear engagements to a razor edge. Put everything together. Load it. Hold the slide down And just lift the slide a couple thousands off the frame rails separating the striker hook and sear.

Oh look. It uncommanded fired.

But, that may be a little closer to the truth than anyone wants to test.

quote:

Originally posted by OttoSig:
Not sure you see how cringeworthy your posts are considering two days ago you were asking the benefits of safety eyewear for shooting.

I’m not sure what your “challenge” is in response to. Enjoy your P320, you don’t have to justify it to me.

Stop it. Welcome to the forum.

Subjectively, my posts may be cringeworthy.

Factually, I have demonstrated that your attempt to respond to my challenge failed to meet the criteria.

My challenge is in response to this thread.

My challenge still stands.

Thanks for the welcome.

quote:

Originally posted by Sgt 127:
For me, swapping out parts, that don’t even belong in the gun. Breaking a few others. Removing a few springs. Only proves you can MAKE a gun unsafe, with enough work.

True.

If you load a 20-gauge shell into a 12-gauge shotgun, there's danger of death, but that is not a flaw in either the shells or the guns.

quote:

Originally posted by Blackwater:
Cringe? Naw….
Sig P320’s can be had at a discount. Buy em up gents, good luck selling them, when the Signess wears off.

I’m sure all the uncommanded discharges are part of a grand conspiracy against Sig and there is no way in hell,

Sig with their penchant for unquestionable QC didn’t mix batches of trigger bars or safety levers (MIM or stamped) and various engineering revisions of those parts were in NO way responsible for any of these reports.
I’m glad you’re so sure of Sig, I’m not.

Ya know what I find rather interesting with all the phantom discharges (>100 reported), only one brand and model of pistol is accounting for them. The P320.

I mean what are the odds??? Holsters with designs for different brand handguns… only the holsters designed for the P320 cause issues?
So the holsters are in on the conspiracy? Got it.

So much so, that Sig had to warn users of light bearing holsters and their involvement in the conspiracy!!
Any other gun makers do this?

I’ll wait.
https://www.sigsauer.com/blog/...holsters-for-pistols

If Sig was as sure of it not being the gun, they would’ve never settled a single case.

Link to post about holster concerns noted.

My challenge should be easy, then:-

If anybody can show a clear video of an accidental discharge from any current P320 model (post-2017 and without modifications), whether re-holstering or drop test or anything else, where we can visibly verify no human interaction with the trigger, please post it in reply to this message.

I'll wait.

quote:

Originally posted by 92fstech:
This video below is probably the closest thing out there to showing a clear view of what may be a discharge without a trigger pull.

This is one of the best examples so far, in order to analyse what happened.

Info needed for this analysis:

- Date of video?
- Gun model and year of build, and any mods?
- Holster model?
- Was anything in the holster?
- Location if possible, to identify the incident and verify details.

My own first impressions, despite the suspicious lack of details:

- Retention system on this holster type clips over the guard/trigger and seems the most likely cause of a trigger pull. Likely a BlackHawk holster.
- I personally would not use this type of retention system with any pistol, least of all one with a light trigger, nor would I ever re-holster this fast, would anybody else do that and if so why?
- This appears to be the P320-M17, so why wasn't the manual safety engaged? The manual safety on that pistol could have prevented this AD.
- The operator's thumb looks likely to have been involved. We can't see all of the digits on the operator's main hand.
- Overall a very useful video example to investigate.

If damaged/faulty/incorrect components were involved, this can happen to any pistol, and it can and has happened to Glock pistols.

Nobody seems to talk about ADs when re-holstering Glocks, like this example, but all guns should rightly be scrutinized for safety based on available info:
- Glock: https://illinoiscarry.com/foru...ccidental-discharge/
- HK 45 http://bangordailynews.com/201...er-training-session/

Dallas PD banned this type of holster for good reason:
- https://www.dallasnews.com/new...ver-safety-concerns/
- https://www.glocktalk.com/thre...528260/post-21218519

It may be notable that the video was uploaded without any description or details of the facts, when presumably some facts were known to the uploader, and instead just a provocative title. Also notable that the video is cut and may omit something, which this could legitimately be to zoom-in although that could have been achieved gradually for evidence purposes.

Postscript: I'm reliably informed that the above video featured an "old" (pre-2017?) army-issued training firearm and the cheap IMI Defense holster (SERPA type?) purchased online by the operator was concluded to be the primary cause of the ND.

Perhaps that's why the uploader didn't add any description to the video?

landowner, in the future, please put all your comments in one post. Five posts in a row on one page is tantamount to spamming the thread. When quoting more than one member, you will have to post, then edit the thread to add the additional quotes. If you have any questions about formatting in this manner, please ask, but you seem like you understand our software.

quote:

Originally posted by 92fstech:

quote:

Originally posted by nhracecraft:
^^ Blackhawk Serpa??

I think it's one of those IMI defense copies, but similar (horrible) design.

I'd sure like to see that holster. Specifically, the inside of it.

Is it correct that all of these incidents involved either guns being holstered or guns holstered?

Has there been a single discharge of a P320 where the trigger wasn't supposedly pulled that didn't involve a holster?