General public out and about in masks? And, even gloves? How baddass!

Ecclesiastes 1:9:

So we are in a screwed up situation in St. Louis County. The Dim County Executive has determined that sex tool shops are essential yet gyms cannot open (more on that later on in this post). We are 8-12 weeks into this and they just decided that masks should be worn on public transport (buses and Metro Link).

Link To St. Louis County Vs House Of Pain story

One of the gyms in St. Louis County, House Of Pain (they have two locations)decided they would follow the Governor's re-open decree and opened. The County ordered them to close. The gym refused (per their lawyers, a guideline is not a legal law) and are fighting the county. Today St. Louis County filed a lawsuit in St. Louis County for the court to order the gym to close and for the gym to give the County a list of everyone of their customers who worked out during this time period, under the guise of "tracking" them. Now House of Pain will probably "lose" in St. Louis County court but will win when it is appealed. I hope they counter sue the shit out of St. Louis County and pad the hell out of the lawyer costs.

So I live in St. Louis County and I am a member of House Of Pain, just haven't had a chance to go workout there yet (also some of my Krav Maga classes are there at the Maryland Heights location). Per St. Louis County, I can't go to the gym, per St. Charles County (on the other side of the Missouri River) I can go to BJJ classes and my old boxing gym.

quote:

Originally posted by bobtheelf:


2) Given that airborne droplets are a major vector with this respiratory virus that causes coughing, wearing a mask to reduce the airborne droplets you expel is reasonable.

Stop arguing straw men.

This argument is analogous to saying banning guns will stop shootings. It’s based on feeling not fact. Masks are not effective at stopping virus transmission. Hell the dumbass governor of Massachusetts ordered masks but said not to use medical grade. It’s asinine. One medical grade mask, worn properly, may block some virus containing droplets during normal breathing. So the mask collects virus. The mask doesn’t reduce virus transmission during cough or sneeze. The mask is ineffective after a certain amount of time (manufacturer dependent) and only effective for a single use. Also if moisture gets through the mask (very quickly usually) the mask is useless and must be replaced. You going to tell me anyone is following these requirements?

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:
I do find it amusing that some of y'all will cancel your Costco memberships over a mask requirement, but apparently would not over their "no firearms in stores" policy.

I carry concealed per law and have carried in Costco for years. They don't ask, I don't tell. Everyone is happy. When you stop me at the door and refuse me entrance because I don't have part of a bedsheet over my face, you can give me back my membership fee. It's just that simple.

I do have a question that has occurred to me from time to time: Why do doctors and other health care providers sometimes wear face masks? Now that the self-confident authorities here who know all about them have educated us about their worthlessness (thanks, BTW), what’s the reason?

Last year when I had surgery, everyone in the room with me—surgeon, anesthesiologists, nurses, and for all I know, janitorial staff—was wearing one. Since they don’t serve any actual practical purpose in preventing or even limiting the transmission of various microorganisms from the wearer to patient, is it just a tradition thing so we don’t confuse the patient with the medical staff and start cutting on the wrong person? I.e., is it sort of like the head mirror that cartoonists draw on doctors in the funnies so we know what they are?

Inquiring minds would like to know.

Ok, I've saved this story for a little over a week and think now might be a good time to share it since many here could use a bit of levity.

Let me set this up for you. I went to Publix for some groceries. I did not wear a mask or gloves or a Tyvek suit. The last place in the store I always visit is the produce section. While sorting through the tomatoes looking for a couple good ones (don't know why Publix produce sucks so bad), a rather short and portly lady in her 40's (I assume) and wearing a mask and rubber gloves wobbles quickly over to me. This is the dialogue that occurred...

Lady: Do you have to touch every goddamn tomato in the bin?
Me: [Perplexed] Just looking for a couple good ones.
Lady: Well since you're not wearing a mask or anything else, you're infecting all of them for the rest of us.
Me:[Pondering a good response] So my touching of the tomatoes bothers you?
Lady: You're damn right it bothers me you inconsiderate asshole.
Me: [Gloves come off] Well then, if my touching of the tomatoes bothered you, then me licking them should really send you over the edge. [At which point I licked the tomato in my hand before dropping it in my plastic bag.]
Lady: [Throws hands up in air, screams, and beats feet to the front of the store.]

After having a good chuckle, I finished my produce shopping, at which point a Publix manager appears on the horizon and sets a course straight for me (a manager I've known and spoken with for the past maybe 10 years). I noticed he recognized me right away when he approached, and greeted me by my first name. More dialog ensued...

Me: [Smiling] Hello. How the heck are you today?
Manager: [Trying to hold back a grin] Did you really tell that lady you'd lick all my tomatoes?
Me: [Sheepish grin] Yeah, I kinda did.
Manager: [Now fully grinning] Please don't do that to some of these folks. It was all I could do to not laugh out loud when she told me what you did.
Me: I apologize. I just couldn't resist playing with her a bit.

He and I chatted a bit more and I made my way to check out and then home, all the while grinning and laughing a bit every time that woman's reaction came back into memory.

Yes, people have lost their GD minds, and according to my neighbor, I'm a very bad man.

Some of you folks are forgetting life is terminal. Morbid as it may sound, life before and life after us will go on. On a scale of 1 to Oh Shit, the Wu Flu hasn't even moved the needle.

I was recently thinking of posting a DIY video on YouTube on how to defeat the Wu Flu. I broke it down into 5 simple steps.

Defeat the Wu Flu with these 5 simple steps:
1. Dig hole
2. Send coordinates of hole to next of kin
3. Hop in hole
4. Cover self
5. Don't get out until Wu Flu is gone

quote:

Originally posted by frayedends:

This argument is analogous to saying banning guns will stop shootings. It’s based on feeling not fact. Masks are not effective at stopping virus transmission. Hell the dumbass governor of Massachusetts ordered masks but said not to use medical grade. It’s asinine. One medical grade mask, worn properly, may block some virus containing droplets during normal breathing. So the mask collects virus. The mask doesn’t reduce virus transmission during cough or sneeze. The mask is ineffective after a certain amount of time (manufacturer dependent) and only effective for a single use. Also if moisture gets through the mask (very quickly usually) the mask is useless and must be replaced. You going to tell me anyone is following these requirements?

It's not analogous to that at all. That's a ridiculous comparison and you should feel bad for making it. You're sick trying to keep other people from getting sick. You're not forcing someone else to give up their property because you're afraid of what they might do.

The mask collects virus. That means the virus isn't getting on other people. That's the point.

Does the mask lose effectiveness? Maybe. Probably. But you just pointed out that it has effectiveness over nothing at all, so thank you for that.

quote:

Originally posted by bigdeal:

I carry concealed per law and have carried in Costco for years. They don't ask, I don't tell. Everyone is happy. When you stop me at the door and refuse me entrance because I don't have part of a bedsheet over my face, you can give me back my membership fee. It's just that simple.

I went to Costco today. I carried a gun. They gave disposable masks out at the door if you didn't have one.

Was it silly? Sure. Did I feel oppressed or that my rights were violated? No.

The guy at the door thought it was silly too.

quote:

Originally posted by mutedblade:
Some of you folks are forgetting life is terminal. Morbid as it may sound, life before and life after us will go on. On a scale of 1 to Oh Shit, the Wu Flu hasn't even moved the needle.

I was recently thinking of posting a DIY video on YouTube on how to defeat the Wu Flu. I broke it down into 5 simple steps.

Defeat the Wu Flu with these 5 simple steps:
1. Dig hole
2. Send coordinates of hole to next of kin
3. Hop in hole
4. Cover self
5. Don't get out until Wu Flu is gone

Yeah, life is terminal. And it's the only one on this Earth that we've got. So if there's the potential to prolong it for anyone else with something truly inconsequential like wearing a mask when I'm sick, I'm going to do that.

As often as we post memorial threads about how people die too young, or how much they meant to us, why would you even consider taking this tack?

quote:

Originally posted by bobtheelf:

quote:

Originally posted by frayedends:

This argument is analogous to saying banning guns will stop shootings. It’s based on feeling not fact. Masks are not effective at stopping virus transmission. Hell the dumbass governor of Massachusetts ordered masks but said not to use medical grade. It’s asinine. One medical grade mask, worn properly, may block some virus containing droplets during normal breathing. So the mask collects virus. The mask doesn’t reduce virus transmission during cough or sneeze. The mask is ineffective after a certain amount of time (manufacturer dependent) and only effective for a single use. Also if moisture gets through the mask (very quickly usually) the mask is useless and must be replaced. You going to tell me anyone is following these requirements?

It's not analogous to that at all. That's a ridiculous comparison and you should feel bad for making it. You're sick trying to keep other people from getting sick. You're not forcing someone else to give up their property because you're afraid of what they might do.

The mask collects virus. That means the virus isn't getting on other people. That's the point.

Does the mask lose effectiveness? Maybe. Probably. But you just pointed out that it has effectiveness over nothing at all, so thank you for that.

I see your point and I understand your concern. My analogy was accurate. The idea that banning guns will stop people from obtaining them and using them in criminal capacity is ridiculous. Of this, we can certainly agree. So my analogy is that the idea of requiring the use of masks to untrained people, with non-qualified masks, no requirement for regular changing of the masks, etc will lower virus transmission is equally ridiculous.

I think my answer here will address both you and Sigfreund's post.

To Sigfreund I would say that quite simply that doctors and nurses are trained, use proper masks, know when to change them etc. The general public does not know any of this information. People in medical or clean room environments go through training on contamination control.

While you are breathing normally you are collecting virus soaked spit. Then, not being trained, you are reaching up and scratching your nose, moving your mask down, touching the credit card and the machine, touching the tomatoes , and getting concentrated virus everywhere. I've been in the supermarket and I have hardly seen a person wearing a real medical grade mask and treating it properly. Once it is moist it is not stopping anything so unless these people are replacing their masks every hour (or whatever the mask is rated) they are actually creating more problems than they are solving.

This is a classic case of common sense does not equal reality.

quote:

Originally posted by bigdeal:

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:
I do find it amusing that some of y'all will cancel your Costco memberships over a mask requirement, but apparently would not over their "no firearms in stores" policy.

I carry concealed per law and have carried in Costco for years. They don't ask, I don't tell. Everyone is happy. When you stop me at the door and refuse me entrance because I don't have part of a bedsheet over my face, you can give me back my membership fee. It's just that simple.

Canceled my membership today. Got $120 back. Wondering how long it will be before they reverse course on this and the CEO says it was a "misunderstanding" or some other bullshit reason.

I won't be going back. I doubt Sam's Club will take up this position as Walmart tends to not alienate customers, IIRC.

Yes, contamination from people touching their mask is a problem. But it's not an airborne-droplet-that-you-can-inhale problem. It's a wash-your-hands-don't-touch-your-face problem, which you should be doing anyway.

If my father had met you, bigdeal, you two would have been the very best of friends!

He would have done exactly as you did with the crazy, little tomato lady.

We still go to the Costco. Sam's club is not a viable alternative. I am always in a good mood, when armed. Lately, it's been a CZ75BD and the ability to deal with it a little better.

Trying to stay hopeful that this stupid situation will end.

The head hospice nurse called me, today. We had a good, long chat. She saw my mother today and is going to try a few things to try to get her something resembling interaction with other residents. Even a little might help a lot.

She said she would call me again in a few days.

Don't know if mom will survive this isolation, but am remaining hopeful that she will not die alone in a cell.

quote:

Originally posted by bobtheelf:
Yes, contamination from people touching their mask is a problem. But it's not an airborne-droplet-that-you-can-inhale problem. It's a wash-your-hands-don't-touch-your-face problem, which you should be doing anyway.

Once moisture reaches the outside of a mask it is no longer stopping any droplets. If it was a mask made on Etsy by Karen it never was stopping droplet. In addition to that concentrated virus on a surface is a greater contamination risk unless you're a close talker.

And if we get some concrete studies that indicate that masks are ineffective at best, or perhaps counterproductive, I'll change my mind. After all, that's one of the premises I'm basing my opinion on.

But right now we're looking at "masks are only effective for a while, after that you'll have to wash your hands just like you're already doing".

quote:

This argument is analogous to saying banning guns will stop shootings. It’s based on feeling not fact.

Could we please stop with the overhyped gun analogies?

quote:

Originally posted by bobtheelf:
And if we get some concrete studies that indicate that masks are ineffective at best, or perhaps counterproductive, I'll change my mind. After all, that's one of the premises I'm basing my opinion on.

But right now we're looking at "masks are only effective for a while, after that you'll have to wash your hands just like you're already doing".

Well anything you want to do is fine. As far as studies we have plenty of contamination control studies in my fields d I have plenty of training on making sure we don’t contaminate our biologics. Plus the mask package will have instructions on how long it can be worn before being discarded. They will also say 1 time use. Nice if you have that kind of supply. We could use a lot more masks for making drugs people need but supply is becoming critically low because of all these mask mandates. I’d say go ahead and make us all happy. Wear the Etsy mask from Karen and you won’t hurt our supply and you can feel good about yourself.

quote:

Originally posted by Georgeair:

quote:

This argument is analogous to saying banning guns will stop shootings. It’s based on feeling not fact.

Could we please stop with the overhyped gun analogies?

Sorry if it’s overhyped. I just thought it would be easy to explain my point.

Some levity from east coast bob concerning proper mask placement:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrDLs11nYa4