quote:

Originally posted by frayedends:

This argument is analogous to saying banning guns will stop shootings. It’s based on feeling not fact. Masks are not effective at stopping virus transmission. Hell the dumbass governor of Massachusetts ordered masks but said not to use medical grade. It’s asinine. One medical grade mask, worn properly, may block some virus containing droplets during normal breathing. So the mask collects virus. The mask doesn’t reduce virus transmission during cough or sneeze. The mask is ineffective after a certain amount of time (manufacturer dependent) and only effective for a single use. Also if moisture gets through the mask (very quickly usually) the mask is useless and must be replaced. You going to tell me anyone is following these requirements?

It's not analogous to that at all. That's a ridiculous comparison and you should feel bad for making it. You're sick trying to keep other people from getting sick. You're not forcing someone else to give up their property because you're afraid of what they might do.

The mask collects virus. That means the virus isn't getting on other people. That's the point.

Does the mask lose effectiveness? Maybe. Probably. But you just pointed out that it has effectiveness over nothing at all, so thank you for that.

quote:

Originally posted by bigdeal:

I carry concealed per law and have carried in Costco for years. They don't ask, I don't tell. Everyone is happy. When you stop me at the door and refuse me entrance because I don't have part of a bedsheet over my face, you can give me back my membership fee. It's just that simple.

I went to Costco today. I carried a gun. They gave disposable masks out at the door if you didn't have one.

Was it silly? Sure. Did I feel oppressed or that my rights were violated? No.

The guy at the door thought it was silly too.

quote:

Originally posted by mutedblade:
Some of you folks are forgetting life is terminal. Morbid as it may sound, life before and life after us will go on. On a scale of 1 to Oh Shit, the Wu Flu hasn't even moved the needle.

I was recently thinking of posting a DIY video on YouTube on how to defeat the Wu Flu. I broke it down into 5 simple steps.

Defeat the Wu Flu with these 5 simple steps:
1. Dig hole
2. Send coordinates of hole to next of kin
3. Hop in hole
4. Cover self
5. Don't get out until Wu Flu is gone

Yeah, life is terminal. And it's the only one on this Earth that we've got. So if there's the potential to prolong it for anyone else with something truly inconsequential like wearing a mask when I'm sick, I'm going to do that.

As often as we post memorial threads about how people die too young, or how much they meant to us, why would you even consider taking this tack?

quote:

Originally posted by bobtheelf:

quote:

Originally posted by frayedends:

This argument is analogous to saying banning guns will stop shootings. It’s based on feeling not fact. Masks are not effective at stopping virus transmission. Hell the dumbass governor of Massachusetts ordered masks but said not to use medical grade. It’s asinine. One medical grade mask, worn properly, may block some virus containing droplets during normal breathing. So the mask collects virus. The mask doesn’t reduce virus transmission during cough or sneeze. The mask is ineffective after a certain amount of time (manufacturer dependent) and only effective for a single use. Also if moisture gets through the mask (very quickly usually) the mask is useless and must be replaced. You going to tell me anyone is following these requirements?

It's not analogous to that at all. That's a ridiculous comparison and you should feel bad for making it. You're sick trying to keep other people from getting sick. You're not forcing someone else to give up their property because you're afraid of what they might do.

The mask collects virus. That means the virus isn't getting on other people. That's the point.

Does the mask lose effectiveness? Maybe. Probably. But you just pointed out that it has effectiveness over nothing at all, so thank you for that.

I see your point and I understand your concern. My analogy was accurate. The idea that banning guns will stop people from obtaining them and using them in criminal capacity is ridiculous. Of this, we can certainly agree. So my analogy is that the idea of requiring the use of masks to untrained people, with non-qualified masks, no requirement for regular changing of the masks, etc will lower virus transmission is equally ridiculous.

I think my answer here will address both you and Sigfreund's post.

To Sigfreund I would say that quite simply that doctors and nurses are trained, use proper masks, know when to change them etc. The general public does not know any of this information. People in medical or clean room environments go through training on contamination control.

While you are breathing normally you are collecting virus soaked spit. Then, not being trained, you are reaching up and scratching your nose, moving your mask down, touching the credit card and the machine, touching the tomatoes , and getting concentrated virus everywhere. I've been in the supermarket and I have hardly seen a person wearing a real medical grade mask and treating it properly. Once it is moist it is not stopping anything so unless these people are replacing their masks every hour (or whatever the mask is rated) they are actually creating more problems than they are solving.

This is a classic case of common sense does not equal reality.

quote:

Originally posted by bigdeal:

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:
I do find it amusing that some of y'all will cancel your Costco memberships over a mask requirement, but apparently would not over their "no firearms in stores" policy.

I carry concealed per law and have carried in Costco for years. They don't ask, I don't tell. Everyone is happy. When you stop me at the door and refuse me entrance because I don't have part of a bedsheet over my face, you can give me back my membership fee. It's just that simple.

Canceled my membership today. Got $120 back. Wondering how long it will be before they reverse course on this and the CEO says it was a "misunderstanding" or some other bullshit reason.

I won't be going back. I doubt Sam's Club will take up this position as Walmart tends to not alienate customers, IIRC.

Yes, contamination from people touching their mask is a problem. But it's not an airborne-droplet-that-you-can-inhale problem. It's a wash-your-hands-don't-touch-your-face problem, which you should be doing anyway.

If my father had met you, bigdeal, you two would have been the very best of friends!

He would have done exactly as you did with the crazy, little tomato lady.

We still go to the Costco. Sam's club is not a viable alternative. I am always in a good mood, when armed. Lately, it's been a CZ75BD and the ability to deal with it a little better.

Trying to stay hopeful that this stupid situation will end.

The head hospice nurse called me, today. We had a good, long chat. She saw my mother today and is going to try a few things to try to get her something resembling interaction with other residents. Even a little might help a lot.

She said she would call me again in a few days.

Don't know if mom will survive this isolation, but am remaining hopeful that she will not die alone in a cell.

quote:

Originally posted by bobtheelf:
Yes, contamination from people touching their mask is a problem. But it's not an airborne-droplet-that-you-can-inhale problem. It's a wash-your-hands-don't-touch-your-face problem, which you should be doing anyway.

Once moisture reaches the outside of a mask it is no longer stopping any droplets. If it was a mask made on Etsy by Karen it never was stopping droplet. In addition to that concentrated virus on a surface is a greater contamination risk unless you're a close talker.

And if we get some concrete studies that indicate that masks are ineffective at best, or perhaps counterproductive, I'll change my mind. After all, that's one of the premises I'm basing my opinion on.

But right now we're looking at "masks are only effective for a while, after that you'll have to wash your hands just like you're already doing".

quote:

This argument is analogous to saying banning guns will stop shootings. It’s based on feeling not fact.

Could we please stop with the overhyped gun analogies?

quote:

Originally posted by bobtheelf:
And if we get some concrete studies that indicate that masks are ineffective at best, or perhaps counterproductive, I'll change my mind. After all, that's one of the premises I'm basing my opinion on.

But right now we're looking at "masks are only effective for a while, after that you'll have to wash your hands just like you're already doing".

Well anything you want to do is fine. As far as studies we have plenty of contamination control studies in my fields d I have plenty of training on making sure we don’t contaminate our biologics. Plus the mask package will have instructions on how long it can be worn before being discarded. They will also say 1 time use. Nice if you have that kind of supply. We could use a lot more masks for making drugs people need but supply is becoming critically low because of all these mask mandates. I’d say go ahead and make us all happy. Wear the Etsy mask from Karen and you won’t hurt our supply and you can feel good about yourself.

quote:

Originally posted by Georgeair:

quote:

This argument is analogous to saying banning guns will stop shootings. It’s based on feeling not fact.

Could we please stop with the overhyped gun analogies?

Sorry if it’s overhyped. I just thought it would be easy to explain my point.

Some levity from east coast bob concerning proper mask placement:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrDLs11nYa4

Yup, When this is over, I'm going back to Wal-Mart to see all of those people with the nostrils on their chin. I haven't noticed them before, but that is where they wear the mask, so...

All reel, no line?

^reel is upside down...

Link to original video: https://youtu.be/JSbT7JVNEU4

quote:

Originally posted by MikeinNC:
^reel is upside down...

And it does that gay ass backwards spin because it's upside down

White House Orders West Wing Staff to Wear Masks

https://www.breitbart.com/poli...tm_campaign=20200511

The White House is directing West Wing staff members to wear masks — unless they are at their desks — in an effort to prevent the spread of the Chinese coronavirus on the premises, ABC News reported Monday afternoon.

“The CDC continues to encourage the use of facial coverings when social distancing is not an option,” reads the memo from the White House Management Office. “As an additional layer of protection, we are requiring everyone who enters the West Wing to wear a mask or facial covering.”

“If you are in need of a facial covering, you may pick one up from the White House Medical Unit Clinic located in EEOB 97,” it continues. “Staff who sit in the West Wing ar not required to wear a facial covering while at their desk if they are appropriately socially distanced from their colleagues.”

The directive also asks staff to avoid “unnecessary” visits to the building.

The development comes as Vice President Mike Pence, head of the coronavirus task force, has been in self-isolation since Friday due to his press secretary, Katie Miller, testing positive for the illness.

“Vice President Pence will continue to follow the advice of the White House Medical Unit and is not in quarantine,” Pence spokesman Devin O’Malley said. “Additionally, Vice President Pence has tested negative every single day.”

Miller is married to top Trump adviser Stephen Miller, who has tested negative, an administration official said.

On Saturday, Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, and Dr. Robert Redfield, director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, said they will quarantine for 14 days.

The day before, Food and Drug Administration commissioner Stephen Hahn, said he already had gone into quarantine.

All three of them have tested negative, along with Trump and Pence, but two people with access to the White House tested positive for coronavirus last week. Trump and Pence are being tested daily, officials said.

Beside Miller, one of Trump’s personal valets tested positive for the coronavirus. The White House said the unnamed aide, who is in the Navy, developed symptoms Tuesday and then was tested. The aide works in the West Wing, and duties involve serving meals to Trump.