^^^ So you're ok with mandated mask orders?

quote:

Originally posted by old rugged cross:
How much has anyone thought about how all this is going to get paid for.

Step 1: Treasury obligations issued to borrow/suck money out of the private sector to make the expenditures in the first place.
Step 2: The Fed buys all of the above, and issues freshly printed USD in exchange.

Step 3 is an either/or:

Either
3A) eventually the USG taxes someone extra to pay off the new Treasury obligations, or
3B) the USG drops other expenditures enough to free up cash within existing tax structure (as if), or
3C) Nothing happens, the cost of 'all this' gets bolted onto the existing $Trillions of the national debt, and the extra dollars issued in step 2 bounce around, causing inflation.

Noting that almost every recent upward tick in the stock market has followed incremental 'stimulus' announcements, it seems to me that Wall Street is anticipating 3C. More dollars chasing the same amount of shares of stock ->higher prices.

You have to be ready to take advantage of fear and panic and make a buck:
You have all by now seen the late night TV ads hawking socks and gloves that are "copper infused".
And now we have: The Copper Wear Mask!
Reusable! And copper infused! $29 bucks.
But wait... Order now and you get a second mask free!
www.CopperWearMask.com

I have a friend in Oregon who says Governor, Kate Brown, just arbitrarily extended her shutdown order for 60 more days, until July 6.

The shelter in place- We were supposed to stay at home for 3 weeks. Those that had COVID-19 would get sick and be identified. Those that didn't have it wouldn't get sick and after 3 weeks be free to go about their lives. The spread was supposed to be contained \ minimized.

2 months out and there's no real change and they're extending it another month But there's No End Game after the next extension.


Economically the effects are local to the people directly effected. Shortly the non-payment of rent, credit cards and tax revenues will build and spread.

We Flattened the Curve at the hospitals But moved that ominous curve to the economic realm.

Thankfully Florida is run by reasonable people at the State level and we are resuming semi-normal medical operations this coming week and lots of other businesses can re-open. Not to mention localities have had a lot of latitude at managing things.

Lots of other businesses / services have been doing home visits (barbers, hair-stylists, etc) under the table, because well thats what people fucking do when the choice is to sit at home and go hungry or get out there and survive.

We all know that the real curve they want flattened now is the chances of all Republicans in the upcoming 2020 elections.

^^^^^
Apparently not all Florida residents are pleased at the reopening of the beaches. A Walton county resident who happens to be an attorney is dressed as the Grim Reape to protest the reopening. He did get the attention of the local news. It did look like a really nice beach day.

Mississippi is pretty reasonable here. Our beaches are open and elective surgeries were back on last week. Yard waste hit a high of 800 extra tons per week as folks were doing a lot of yard work.

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyl...virus-215640425.html

More than 1 million people have recovered from the coronavirus, according to data from the Johns Hopkins University, a marker of success that can be traced to various factors. Ventilators, experimental drug treatments and a better understanding of the virus all have surely helped saved many lives.

But there’s an even simpler solution that’s quietly being implemented in emergency rooms across the globe, one that doctors say could be saving countless lives: proning.

Proning, a technique that involves having patients lie on their stomach, is actually more complex than it sounds, requiring six people to pull off safely. A well-known method in intensive care units, it’s long been used to improve the breathing of those suffering from acute respiratory distress syndrome (ARDS). Now being used in many ERs, it’s proving to be a low-risk, highly effective way to improve the breathing of COVID-19 patients early on — and prevent many from having to be put on ventilators.

According to one resident at an emergency room in Chicago (who requested anonymity because of his job), his team is now “proning as much as possible” with COVID-19 patients. While it may seem puzzling that simply being on your stomach could improve oxygen flow, the resident explains why it’s highly effective

“When we’re laying on our backs, our diaphragm is pushed up by our abdominal organs and our lungs don’t expand as much as they could, especially the back part of our lungs,” he tells Yahoo Life. “When we prone patients ... you're allowing the diaphragm to sink low, because the abdominal organs are kind of falling with gravity, which allows the lungs to expand further and allows the back part of the lungs, which are normally being compressed when you're on your back to expand more, to allow for ventilation. So you're basically opening up more of the lungs to participate in gas exchange.”

The rise of this technique in New York City, the epicenter of the U.S. outbreak, can be traced to Dr. Nicholas Caputo, associate chief of the ER department at Lincoln Medical Center in the Bronx, one of the hardest-hit hospitals in the nation. Caputo says that when COVID-19 patients first began flooding the hospital’s critical care units in early March, proning was not part of the protocol.

“The sort of paradigm at the time was to intubate early,” Caputo tells Yahoo Life. This made sense for patients who were clearly experiencing respiratory distress. The problem was, many patients arriving to the ER weren’t clearly in distress — they were experiencing what’s referred to as “silent hypoxics,” or breathing trouble with no symptoms. This means that despite appearing normal, their oxygen saturation level, or the amount of oxygen in the blood (normally between 95 and 100) has fallen sharply.

“These people would be on their cellphones, or just having a conversation, [seemingly fine but] with oxygen saturation in the 70s, 60s or even 50s . ... These patients were getting intubated because everybody didn't know how to approach them,” says Caputo. “So nurses were freaking out, doctors were puzzled and it was chaos.”

Given the high mortality rate of those put on ventilators, Caputo and his team began thinking of other options to prevent having to take that step. Inspired by a study conducted in Italy in late January in which physicians there showed positive results from proning COVID-19 patients, they began to try it. “We thought maybe that would help, so we started proning in the emergency department pretty early on.”

Within minutes of turning patients with low oxygen saturation on their stomachs, they saw oxygen saturation levels jump back into the normal range. “Patients who were coming in with oxygen stats in the 70s ... once we proned them, after about a few minutes, they'd be up in the low 90s,” says Caputo. “That sort of brought the temperature down in the room, we could kind of take a step back and breathe.”

Caputo immediately began tracking the progress, publishing the first clinical report of the progress on April 22. The report showed that proning improved the oxygen saturation levels among 50 individuals with COVID-19 — some of whom had oxygen saturation levels as low as 69. After five minutes of proning, the mean oxygen saturation level was 94.

The technique soon spread in New York, Caputo says, which he believes is one of the reasons that the seriousness of infections has decreased. “I’ve heard from physicians around the world, they've been trying this and they've been having pretty good success with improving oxygenation and holding off on intubating patients,” he says. “And I think the numbers within New York City back that up. Late March, early April, we were intubating several hundred patients a day; then we started doing this and it caught on in the rest of the city, that number dropped to a few dozen a day.”

Caputo is careful to note that the technique is not perfect. Not everyone in his clinical review responded the same way. But overall, he hopes it is something that emergency rooms continue to adopt nationwide. “It’s not a panacea, it’s not a cure-all,” he says. “But it’s a way to buy time for some patients, and other patients, it’s a way to prevent intubation — cause we know this: If you get intubated, your odds of having a poor outcome in terms of mortality is around 50 percent.”

Many of the beaches here in N.C have opened or announced openings next week. They had all been closed to even being on the beach and any home rentals but they must be realizing now just how much this crap is costing their towns in lost revenue. Most will be totally open for rental properties, public beach access, fishing etc. with groups of 10 or less, but I did see one that is still refusing to allow chairs, sitting or sunbathing. How damn stupid are these people?
I think the video of the retired Navy guy protesting in uniform also helped make most of them see how stupid they were being but some insist on that path.

UK dead now at 28131.

Australia has 93 dead.

What the almighty **** has gone wrong here?

Simple - the UK didn't close the ports and airports.

The Australians totally prohibited ANY Chinese returning or visiting Australia. Period.

Heartbreaking stuff, folks. Truly.

quote:

Originally posted by braillediver:
The shelter in place- We were supposed to stay at home for 3 weeks. Those that had COVID-19 would get sick and be identified. Those that didn't have it wouldn't get sick and after 3 weeks be free to go about their lives. The spread was supposed to be contained \ minimized.

2 months out and there's no real change and they're extending it another month But there's No End Game after the next extension.


Economically the effects are local to the people directly effected. Shortly the non-payment of rent, credit cards and tax revenues will build and spread.

We Flattened the Curve at the hospitals But moved that ominous curve to the economic realm.

Our commie Gov. Inslee just ordered the destruction of thousands of businesses and bankruptcies of a few million individuals in the name of "saving lives"!! Spokane County has 10 current cases of COVID-19 in the hospital with half of those being released by Monday. TEN!!

This is what you get when you elect a lifelong liberal Democrat politician that has no experience in working for or owning a business to a position of power.

Jim

quote:

Originally posted by tacfoley:
UK dead now at 28131.

I don't believe that number for one single second, and neither should you. Your government is lying to you about the number of dead, just as our government- Federal, state and local is lying to us. The well-meaning half-wits in state or local government are one thing; people making decisions with no qualifications to do so, but the state governors and the various branches of our Federal government, are manipulating data in order to increase their power and influence. They have already succeeded in making us less free. They despise us, discount us, look down on us, and they should pay. Somehw]ow, some way, they should be made to pay for their abuses of power and their utter disregard for the people of this country, and for the lives they have ruined so casually.

Ask anyone in this forum- I'm the most skeptical person on the planet when it comes to conspiracy theories, but this- well, this is in our face, daring us to figure it out. You cannot believe a word they are saying about this fiasco. Not one single word.
the press, the so-called journalists and their employers- they are gleefuly complicit in this conspiracy, and they, too, hate us and want to destroy us. Think I'm exaggerating?

Anyone know why the bank parking lots are over flowing this morning?

quote:

Originally posted by BigSwede:
Anyone know why the bank parking lots are over flowing this morning?

Certain U.S. Banks have finally decided to support/process the Federal SBA loans, would be my guess.

Okay....question here and a bit of a rant about this lockdown. Aside from the obvious answer of wanting to keep us shut up like good little subjects to our masters... why close down hiking trails and camping areas. Since I'm not allowed to work I thought of taking my tent and pack to an area in the NC mountains that I like to camp and hike for activity/recreation(like they say we are allowed), yet most trail and camp places have been closed by either federal or the state officials. What the hell? How can being isolated out on the woods NOT be the same as being isolated at home. Damn all these politicians straight to hell. I hope I'm still around when our damn governor dies so I can go piss on his grave and take a big dump!

The government will say that is a staffing issue. Not enough rangers available if you get in trouble. Regular maintenance is another. The National Parks are run out of DC and that is part of the problem. I used to work for the National Park Service so I have some idea.
I know the conditions at the Grand Canyon are different than the Smokies.

Staying the course doesn't make any logical sense. It's dogma not reality based on observed facts.

If you take the #'s at face value in Washington State the corona fatality numbers are still less than 10% of the normal death rate for the top 10 causes of death. That's if it continues at the peak which is steadily declining.

quote:

Originally posted by Excam_Man:
^^^ So you're ok with mandated mask orders?

I’m okay with mandatory FOAD orders for the government.

I’m even okay with private businesses choosing whatever requirements they want to on people who wish to do business with them. (As I am with potential patrons telling the business to pound sand and taking their business elsewhere if they don’t approve of the businesses policies.

What I don’t approve of is the government producing bullshit, theater based decrees and leaving the poor low man on the totem pole at local businesses to face customer wrath for government stupidity.

I also don’t approve of angry morons taking their anger out on the poor low man on the totem pole at their local store when they should be screaming at (or better yet, working hard to recall) their government idiot promulgating these policies.

quote:

Originally posted by ZSMICHAEL:
The government will say that is a staffing issue. Not enough rangers available if you get in trouble. Regular maintenance is another. The National Parks are run out of DC and that is part of the problem. I used to work for the National Park Service so I have some idea.
I know the conditions at the Grand Canyon are different than the Smokies.

Each park is different, thus the demands are going to be different depending on proximity to population centers and amount of staff available. I'm sure payroll plays a major role as well.

Back during the govt shut-down, Joshua Tree NP got overrun with idiots as there was minimal staffing. Garbage piled up, campsites/facilities were trashed, a number of fires were started and people went off-roading tearing up non-designated vehicle areas. The trash, trashed the place.

Most of us here know that it was a tragic mistake for Trump to not go ahead and open things by Easter. Sure, he’d get blamed for deaths but he’s gonna blamed for everything no matter what. Now, this stupidity is so deeply rooted we have to fight our way out of it. It could have been headed off early on before fear, idiocy and lust for power paralyzed the nation. Many of us saw this coming. Lesson to be learned; trust you’re first instinct, not the experts.