quote:

Originally posted by Rightwire:
I wouldn't put it past her to have the MSP print 15,000 $1,000 citations and go car to car handing them out for violation of her stay at home order. If you're not traveling for essential work, to buy groceries, or court ordered child visitation travel is illegal in Michigan under her Executive Order.

Isn't there a grocery store in Lansing?

"Officer, I'm getting groceries but am stuck in all this traffic!!!"

quote:

Originally posted by Ackks:

quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:

I'll take a stab at it...

Thanks. Makes more sense than just saying it is political hype. What about what is happen in Sweden now? Seems they tried this experiment and now it is backfiring. I'm not being an antagonist. I honestly don't see a good solution to this. If we stay home the economy tanks. If we open it up when thousands are infected it could spike like the last month never happened.

From what I've read things are no worse n Sweden than they are in the neighboring countries that locked everything down.

quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:

I'll take a stab at it...
It's called "natural herd immunity", and the only way you get it is by opening things up:

Viruses 101: How Overprotecting People from COVID 19 Could Make it More Lethal

So tight close quarters and unsanitary conditions causes the virus to make itself more deadly AND avoiding passing the bug and washing your hands makes the virus more deadly as well. Sounds like we are fucked either way then.

I'd suggest herd immunity as well, but have no clue how we get there. Do what you can to stop everyone from getting it at the same time with a focus on protecting people most likely to die from it. Then once we have a way to test for antibodies and to administer a vaccine to the population as a whole we can go back to normal.

Only problem is we have to either sacrifice economy or at risk people. It's not really politically acceptable to have a policy of acceptable casualties to save the economy. Kind of a catch 22 situation. The other monkey wrench is the reports of 30% loss of lung function which may or may not be permanent.

I have no solution for the problem, but I can sure as hell say I wouldn't want to be PDJT right now.

I talked to a friend of mine Sunday that lives in Bro, Sweden just north of Stockholm. He said all the reports that you’re seeing where the media is saying Sweden is completely open are lies. Many bakeries and restaurants and other places are temporarily closed or are takeout only and many people are staying at home. He says Sweden has basically a “soft lockdown“ as he put it.

quote:

Originally posted by 2BobTanner:

As for the Donnybrook and kerfuffle over the re-opening USA and who has what power, funny how the Dems have always been about the “supremacy” of the FedGov over the States, but now it’s all about STATES’ RIGHTS and the 10th Amendment. Welcome to the timeworn argument of the concept of Federalism in the American polity.

2BT

I don't recall any of these assholes rescuing my freedom during the Federal "Assault Weapon {SIC} Ban"

Our Governor and her actions make no sense. When she lengthened the stay at home order she added restrictions on what can and what cannot be purchased at the same time.

Paint, decorating items, lawn and garden items and supplies are prohibited from sale until April 30th at the soonest.

Party stores, a mainstay of urban life in Detroit, Flint and many other cities are allowed to be open as they are considered essential businesses. They are allowed to stay open because they sell food items critical (Governor's office said that, not I) to neighborhoods. Yep, beef sticks, candy bars, chips, snack food is critical to sustain life. Yep, together with liquor, beer and wine sales. And recreational pot stores are allowed to be open as another essential business. I think a more insidious reason is to keep the masses drunk, numb, stoned and happy while watching TV so they will be less inclined to question what else is going on and to generate tax revenue for the state.

Can't forget the state lottery. In fact this subject has come up often during this. Yesterday the Governor said early in her press conference that she was looking at the lottery question, that got shoved to the side and ignored for the rest of the conference. But never fear, this afternoon WWJ radio played a PSA about staying home, limiting trips to the grocery store and to not go to the store to play the lottery, do it on line. So that is the action taken by the Governor, a radio announcement.

She has stated for exercise "go walk around your neighborhood while observing social distancing", obviously she does not live in Detroit, Highland Park, Flint, Benton Harbor or many other places in Michigan. We are encouraged to use state parks but not drive there. Sure, there are state recreation areas near here, I'll just walk 17 miles round trip to one or 32 miles round trip to the next closest one. My private gun club is open for use with restrictions presently, under the directive I cannot drive there and back. Think it would cause some issues if I walked carrying my AR?

Between the protest scheduled for the state Capitol tomorrow and a Federal suit filed against her today it's going to get interesting around here. Here's a link to that:https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/2020/04/14/growing-opposition-ruptures-unity-behind-whitmer-covid-19-response/2991974001/

Well...the Feds (DOJ) are getting involved with the freedom of religion issues...

https://apple.news/ACIo6KHYER0qbTjGGcqa_9g

The Justice Department is siding with Temple Baptist Church in Greenville, Miss., after Greenville police officers began issuing $500 tickets to congregants who refused to leave a parking lot where the church was holding a drive-in service.

"Today, the Department filed a Statement of Interest in support of a church in Mississippi that allegedly sought to hold parking lot worship services, in which congregants listened to their pastor preach over their car radios, while sitting in their cars in the church parking lot with their windows rolled up," Attorney General Bill Barr said Tuesday. "The City of Greenville fined congregants $500 per person for attending these parking lot services - while permitting citizens to attend nearby drive-in restaurants, even with their windows open."

"Under strict scrutiny, the city has the burden to demonstrate that prohibiting the small church here from holding the drive-in services at issue here -- services where attendees are required to remain in their cars in the church parking lot at all times with their windows rolled up and spaced consistent with CDC guidelines -- is the least restrictive means of furthering a compelling interest," the filing states. "As of now, it seems unlikely that the city will be able to carry that burden."

The Justice Department maintained that the facts alleged in the church's complaint "strongly suggest that the city's actions target religious conduct."
"If proven, these facts establish a free exercise violation unless the city demonstrates that its actions are neutral and apply generally to nonreligious and religious institutions or satisfies the demanding strict scrutiny standard," the filing read.

Barr added: "The United States Department of Justice will continue to ensure that religious freedom remains protected if any state or local government, in their response to COVID-19, singles out, targets, or discriminates against any house of worship for special restrictions."

"Thank you to the Trump administration and Attorney General Bill Barr for this strong stand in support of religious liberty," Mississippi Gov. Tate Reeves tweeted Tuesday. "The government cannot shut down churches. Mississippi is not China. This is still America. We will help support this any way we can."

I'm so sick of hearing this - every single time they are gonna mention him -

"The U.S.'s top expert in infectious diseases, Dr. Anthony Fauci, today said . . . ."

And then they babble on about "the most famous person in America, there's even a Fauci bobblehead"

For fuck's sake, everybody over 15 years old knows who this asshole is, you don't have to keep on with the top expert bullshit.

They keep saying it because the media wants to nag at Trump if he doesn't do exactly as Fauci says. Fuck Fauci and the media!

Rant off.

quote:

Originally posted by benny6:
They asked my wife if she felt nervous being back at work. Her reply was "Why should I be? I lived with a man who was infected and I still didn't get sick."

Benny6, is it possible that your wife gave you the infection and she was asymptomatic?

JP

quote:

The same "science" that settles man made global warming?
And they wonder why we don't trust anything they say or do.

Yes. Science. Just because you don't believe 2+2=4, doesn't make it not true. Just like you might believe the moon is made of green cheese, doesn't make it true.

Science doesn't care what you believe. Science is science.

quote:

Originally posted by jprebb:

quote:

Originally posted by benny6:
They asked my wife if she felt nervous being back at work. Her reply was "Why should I be? I lived with a man who was infected and I still didn't get sick."

Benny6, is it possible that your wife gave you the infection and she was asymptomatic?

JP

My sister told me today that she tested positive for the Wuhan. She is a Sheriff's deputy in New Jersey so I figured it was only a matter of time. She is completely asymptomatic. She only got tested because her department offered it for anyone who wanted it, symptoms or not. She said what the hell and did it. Otherwise she would right now not even suspect having it.

quote:

Originally posted by jprebb:

quote:

Originally posted by benny6:
They asked my wife if she felt nervous being back at work. Her reply was "Why should I be? I lived with a man who was infected and I still didn't get sick."

Benny6, is it possible that your wife gave you the infection and she was asymptomatic?

JP

Entirely possible. We don't know exactly where I got it from. Could have been my kid, as he had swollen tonsils and a scratchy throat. It could have been our last date at Margarita Factory the day before they shut down all restaurants. My wife could have brought it home from work.

Tony.

quote:

Originally posted by Ryanp225:

quote:

Originally posted by benny6:
Has anyone heard of a national day of protest demanding the country reopen? My wife showed me a thing on facebook, but I don't FB, so I haven't seen anything.

I've read about it is a few other places. If there is anything like that close to me I'll be attending.

I think ya missed it.

quote:

Originally posted by Rightwire:

quote:

Yep, and the anger is rising. As was noted above, I truly wish people in the non-hotspots wouldgive their local mayors, their governors, and the federal government the middle finger and head back to work, assuming they even have a job at this point.

That can't happen here. Businesses are ordered closed. You can't go to a job when the building is locked and if opened will receive a visit from the police for breaking the law. You'll be ordered to leave and the business shut down and fined pending business license review.

Our governor made it very clear. You need a license to be in business, we control that, do what I say or you may have issues.

If I own the property, the building, the insurance, and the customers, Gretch can kiss my lilly white ass. Wanna arrest me? Do it. I'd welcome it. National news here I come. Oh, and Gretch, when I haul your ass into court and win, and I will, I'll pay the settlement to my staff as a stipend to your stupid shit, and that to will make the national news.

God damn folks. The Dem's defy the government at almost every turn when they disagree with anything, no matter how big or small. And for the most part, they get away with it. Maybe its time for us to take a page from their playbook and start giving the man (or woman in this case) the finger.

It was just announced on the local news that she'll be appearing on the Today show tomorrow morning. How special. I'm sure that will help the people and economy of this state immensely.

quote:

Originally posted by Ackks:

quote:

Originally posted by Ryanp225:

A. It aint my plan, Scooter. Never said it was. So why are you starting trouble where there wasn't any?

B. If you're that scared then go home and stay there. I'll send someone back for ya when it's safe out here. World's a rough place full of rough men and scary viruses. Has been for a while.

C. You know that 99.8% of this is political hype right? Right? You do know this is political hype , right?

You keep posting how the quarantine needs to end immediately, so I'm starting trouble asking you to explain why that is a good idea and wouldn't cause a spike that wipes out the point of the last month? I see a lot of avoidance in the rest of your post, but not much else.

Ok, let me take a swing at this. One of the data points the media and the experts seem to avoid like the plague (see how I worked that in there) is that the number of "confirmed cases" of the virus are a minuscule percentage of the likely total cases of the virus nationwide, and the population as a whole. We know a large percentage of the public either never develop symptoms, or recover from infection with little to no medical assistance (figures range from 70 to 90% in some reporting). As such, it is highly likely the herd immunity chellim was addressing is already well under way throughout the country. We also now know who are the most at risk are (>60+ year olds, and/or those with comorbities), and should be able to devise a means to protect them. Finally, only certain urban areas of the country are still suffering large breakouts and increased hospital needs. They can stay quarantined until they get a bit further down the road. But that leaves a huge majority of the population available to go back to some sort of normal life, maybe with some agreed upon preventative measures.

To continue to lock down the entire country over this is utterly asinine, and quite frankly, childish.

quote:

Originally posted by Rightwire:

quote:

Originally posted by HRK:


Fox News reports that Michigan officials expect at least 15 thousand cars to participate.



Link

I wouldn't put it past her to have the MSP print 15,000 $1,000 citations and go car to car handing them out for violation of her stay at home order. If you're not traveling for essential work, to buy groceries, or court ordered child visitation travel is illegal in Michigan under her Executive Order.

Let her. Just don't pay them. As has been noted, she doesn't write leslation/laws, the legislature does. Her EO's can be taken as advise or recommendations, but they do not have force of law behind them.

quote:

Originally posted by benny6:
Entirely possible. We don't know exactly where I got it from. Could have been my kid, as he had swollen tonsils and a scratchy throat. It could have been our last date at Margarita Factory the day before they shut down all restaurants. My wife could have brought it home from work.

In any event, I'm glad you're both okay!

JP

So bigdeal, are you saying to pay the fat, diabetic, old, and otherwise unhealthy people to stay home while the rest go back to work, or too bad you are old and ate too many Twinkies, roll the dice because you have bad genes or made bad life choices. Then let everyone else go back to work?

It would be pretty expensive to pay a third of US to stay home, and if not paying them, what will we do to keep them from being armed robbers?

quote:

Originally posted by Skins2881:
So bigdeal, are you saying to pay the fat, diabetic, old, and otherwise unhealthy people to stay home while the rest go back to work, or too bad you are old and ate too many Twinkies, roll the dice because you have bad genes or made bad life choices. Then let everyone else go back to work?

It would be pretty expensive to pay a third of US to stay home...

First off, I think that number is way below 1/3 of the population. Second, even some of those with comorbities will recover from the virus. Just because you're in a risk group does not mean it automatic you're going to die from the virus. And just playing devil's advocate for a moment, wouldn't it be far cheaper to pay ~10% of the population to stay home than 90% of the population, especially while the rest of the population reopens the economy and gets it moving again?

quote:

... and if not paying them, what will we do to keep them from being armed robbers?

I don't know. Throw Twinkles and HoHo's to them.