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When will the coronavirus arrive in the US? (Disease: COVID-19; Virus: SARS-CoV-2) Login/Join 
Freethinker
Picture of sigfreund
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Internet experts: “It’s just the sniffles for anyone who isn’t old or fat or otherwise of no use to society.”

The neurological effects discussed in the below article aren’t unique to this disease. As I’ve mentioned before, that has been reported for many others. According to a book I just finished, a large percentage (1/3?) of people who recovered from the “Spanish” flu of a century ago suffered neurological problems, including some with lifelong impairments.

From The Wall Street Journal.

==================================================================

Coronavirus Ravages the Lungs. It Also Affects the Brain.

Doctors chronicle Covid-19 patients with seizures, hallucinations and loss of senses

BY DANIELA HERNANDEZ

A patient in Japan had seizures. An airline worker ended up in a Detroit hospital, where doctors diagnosed her with a rare form of brain damage. Others reported auditory and visual hallucinations or losing their sense of smell and taste.

What they share: presumed or confirmed coronavirus infections.

As the number of confirmed Covid-19 cases world-wide reaches two million, clinicians are realizing the disease doesn’t just ravage the lungs and hurt the heart. It also can, in a significant proportion of cases, affect the nervous system in little-understood ways.

Through a growing number of papers, doctors are chronicling Covid-19’s lesser-known neurological manifestations including brain inflammation, hallucinations, seizures, cognitive deficits and loss of smell and taste. It is unknown whether these are caused directly by the virus infiltrating the nervous system, or by the body’s immune response.

The hope is these reports could speed up diagnosis. Some patients say they were going out in public, potentially exposing others, due to lack of awareness of these symptoms. The reports could also open avenues of research.

In late March, while keeping quarantine, Dwantrina Russell noticed she couldn’t smell the bleach she was using to sanitize her Houston bathroom. Since then, most of the 47year-old business owner’s symptoms of Covid-19, including fever and a violent cough, have receded. But she said she can smell things like cleaning products or food only if they are close by.

The range of effects could take decades to play out. Some epidemiological studies and lab experiments with other viruses severe infections could set in motion molecular events that might increase the risk of developing neurodegenerative disorders, like Alzheimer’s or Parkinson’s, many years later. The links are a matter of debate among neurologists and neuroscientists.

On Friday, Chinese doctors published a study of 214 hospitalized patients in Wuhan showing that more than a third had neurologic symptoms. The most common included dizziness, headaches, impaired consciousness, skeletal-muscle injury and loss of smell and taste. The paper—published in the Journal of the American Medical Association—also documented rare, but more serious, effects including seizures and stroke.

“When this virus first came out, the general feeling was that there wasn’t much in the way of neurological manifestations. This was a pulmonary process,” said S. Andrew Josephson, chair of neurology at the University of California, San Francisco. “This article should open up everyone’s eyes that this disorder affects the brain as well.”

The novel coronavirus, called SARS-CoV-2, isn’t the only virus known to affect the nervous system. Research in humans and animals has shown that non-coronaviruses such as HIV, measles and certain influenza strains can infect the brain or affect its function through inflammatory responses elsewhere in the body. Laboratory studies have shown that other coronaviruses can infect nerve cells.

Some neurologists hypothesize, based on results from animal studies, that the some-suggest times fatal breathing problems seen in severe Covid-19 cases might be in part due to direct infection and subsequent malfunction of the brainstem, which is involved in coordinating breathing.

“We are certainly on a learning curve in terms of understanding what the neurological manifestations would be” of SARS-CoV-2 infection, said Florian Thomas, chair of neurology at Hackensack University Medical Center in New Jersey.

Whether a coronavirus infection affects the ability of receptors in the nasal cavity to detect odorants or the nerves that shuttle the odor-containing signals to the brain is unknown. Loss of smell and taste are common during other respiratory infections.

In the U.S. and elsewhere, policy makers and public-health officials have asked patients to avoid going to the hospital unless suspected Covid-19 symptoms like fever and cough don’t improve, or if they have trouble breathing. Critical-care neurologists said the messaging should expand to make patients more aware of brain-related symptoms.

Symptoms like confusion, trouble speaking or numbness on one side of the body should also be red flags.

LINK




6.4/93.6

“Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something.”
— Plato
 
Posts: 47368 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Savor the limelight
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quote:
Originally posted by sigfreund:
“It’s just the sniffles for anyone who isn’t too old or too fat or otherwise to be of no use to society.”


And your solution is....? You've had 383 pages to offer one up.
 
Posts: 10828 | Location: SWFL | Registered: October 10, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
Picture of holdem
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A politician with the brains and balls to say what needed to be said. I wished I lived in Indiana so I could vote for him.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/ind...onomy-035600878.html

Reopening the economy is preferable to preventing a new wave of coronavirus deaths, a member of Congress from Indiana said Tuesday.

"It is policymakers' decision to put on our big boy and big girl pants and say it is the lesser of these two evils," Republican Rep. Trey Hollingsworth told radio station WIBC-FM of Indianapolis. "It is not zero evil, but it is the lesser of these two evils, and we intend to move forward that direction."

His push for the end of isolation for much of the country aligns with President Donald Trump's desire to get the nation back to work. But medical experts, including Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, have said ending stay-at-home orders too soon could spark a new wave of COVID-19, the disease associated with the coronavirus.

Fauci suggested Tuesday that the nation's lack of robust testing means that hot spots could crop up off the radar and that the virus could quickly mushroom without containment. "I'll guarantee you, once you start pulling back there will be infections," he said.
Hollingsworth's sentiment has been expressed before. Texas Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick suggested last month that American seniors should be willing to risk their lives to the virus to preserve the economy.

"No one reached out to me and said, 'As a senior citizen, are you willing to take a chance on your survival in exchange for keeping the America that all America loves for its children and grandchildren?'" he said March 23 on Fox News. "And if that is the exchange, I'm all in."

Patrick's remarks drew rebukes from Democrats, including New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo, who said the next day, "My mother is not expendable."

Hollingsworth said Tuesday that he's also willing to push the good life over a longer life.

"We are going to have to look Americans in the eye and say, 'We are making the best decisions for the most Americans possible,' and the answer to that is to get Americans back to work, to get Americans back to their businesses," he said.

Hollingsworth argued that looming economic losses are far too severe to continue with sheltering-in-place orders designed to limit the person-to-person spread of coronavirus.

"It is always the American government's position to say, in the choice between the loss of our way of life as Americans and the loss of life, of American lives, we have to always choose the latter," he said.
 
Posts: 2280 | Location: Orlando | Registered: April 22, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Lawyers, Guns
and Money
Picture of chellim1
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quote:
"It is always the American government's position to say, in the choice between the loss of our way of life as Americans and the loss of life, of American lives, we have to always choose the latter," he said.

That's kind of convoluted... but I think he agrees with Jefferson:
“I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery.”




"Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible."
-- Justice Janice Rogers Brown

"The United States government is the largest criminal enterprise on earth."
-rduckwor
 
Posts: 23951 | Location: St. Louis, MO | Registered: April 03, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
Picture of sigfreund
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by trapper189:
quote:
Originally posted by sigfreund:
“It’s just the sniffles for anyone who isn’t too old or too fat or otherwise to be of no use to society.”


And your solution is....?


I don’t have any solutions. That’s not my responsibility, nor like the social media “experts” (Roll Eyes) to whom I refer, do I believe I have the actual knowledge to offer one. (And if you believe we have had 383 pages of useful information about the disease and the crisis it caused, I can only suggest you read them again.)

There are, however, many people, including many posters here, who believe the solution is to act as if having the disease is nothing to be concerned about. And that may indeed be the proper solution; again, I don’t know and it’s not my responsibility to decide. What any solution should include, however, is an understanding of the true dangers of the disease. “Oh, it’s nothing for most people to worry about,” parroted by people who are ignorant of that is not helpful to the process.

My posting that article is a small attempt to help dispel some of that ignorance among those who are still willing to consider the facts. I mentioned early on in this discussion that I believe that like any other issue relating to self-defense or self-preservation, we individuals have the initial and primary responsibility for our own safety. Whatever measures we take, though, should be based on an understanding of the actual threat, not wishful thinking grounded in ignorance.




6.4/93.6

“Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something.”
— Plato
 
Posts: 47368 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Run Silent
Run Deep

Picture of Patriot
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by sigfreund:
Internet experts: “It’s just the sniffles for anyone who isn’t old or fat or otherwise of no use to society.”

The neurological effects discussed in the below article aren’t unique to this disease. As I’ve mentioned before, that has been reported for many others.


My brother got the flu about 12 years ago and has been on disability ever since.

The neurological effects from virus can be quite significant.


_____________________________
Pledge allegiance or pack your bag!
The problem with Socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money. - Margaret Thatcher
Spread my work ethic, not my wealth
 
Posts: 6978 | Location: South East, Pa | Registered: July 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
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quote:
The range of effects could take decades to play out. Some epidemiological studies and lab experiments with other viruses severe infections could set in motion molecular events that might increase the risk of developing neurodegenerative disorders, like Alzheimer’s or Parkinson’s, many years later. The links are a matter of debate among neurologists and neuroscientists.

So we are supposed to wait decades to study and research, etc??? I know that is not what you are suggesting but we can not wait months and months (much less the decades to study, and study and wait) like so many officials and even some here want. Without a vaccine that may take years to get, we are better off trying to gain immunity and letting people and business who wish to.....get back to their lives while trying to protect those most at risk, and restoring our economy and rights that are being trampled on every day.
 
Posts: 887 | Location: North Carolina | Registered: December 14, 2019Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Run Silent
Run Deep

Picture of Patriot
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I feel bad for Trump...this is a no win situation...but I guess he's used to that.

It's quite the pickle...

No matter how you do it, someone will lose.

Letting younger people or lower threat classes return to normal will still expose the more vulnerable. Younger people "taking it home" to parents and grand parents will likely happen. Everyone says we can still protect them...but you can't...not if people restart mingling. Offices open...touching starts...yadda yadda.

And if you keep things closed, the economy will get much worse.

I think everyone agrees that a stepped approach will be best...but man, that tightrope is THIN in getting this right.

I don't think there is a right answer in that balance...you just hope for the best when you execute.


_____________________________
Pledge allegiance or pack your bag!
The problem with Socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money. - Margaret Thatcher
Spread my work ethic, not my wealth
 
Posts: 6978 | Location: South East, Pa | Registered: July 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Savor the limelight
posted Hide Post
quote:
My posting that article is a small attempt to help dispel some of that ignorance among those who are still willing to consider the facts.


This is not a fact:

quote:
Internet experts: “It’s just the sniffles for anyone who isn’t old or fat or otherwise of no use to society.”


Nobody said that. Way back on page 48, I'm the first person to have used the word "sniffles" and you seem to have taken great offense to it. As more information comes out, I was wrong that the world was going to be shutdown for something most people would get the sniffles from. It seems most people with COVID-19 do display any symptoms at all.


What percentage of those infected display the effects the article you posted is talking about; 10%, 1%, .1%, .01%? When trying to determine a course of action, makes a difference, does it not? Should we shut down the world because .01% will have some neurologic effects? How about at 10%? Where does the line get drawn? Enlighten the ignorant, what action should we take based on the facts presented in the article you posted?

I've said in multiple posts the actions I would support and backed them up with facts. It's your turn.
 
Posts: 10828 | Location: SWFL | Registered: October 10, 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
Picture of sigfreund
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quote:
Originally posted by Patriot:
this is a no win situation


To my knowledge, no one blamed Woodrow Wilson for the effects of the “Spanish” flu a century ago. Then, of course, what the “government” could do to mitigate its effects was far less, and it didn’t have the same economic effects on the country. Nevertheless, the right in this country has never been as effective with its propaganda as the left, and one of the things that everyone who supports the President should keep in mind is that neither the pandemic nor the effects were/are his fault. There are things that should be done in a crisis like this, but we must keep in mind that there are literally no precedents for knowing what they are and what their consequences will be.

Early on in this discussion the crisis was described as being a “war,” and I agree. We must never forget, though, that nothing in warfare ever goes exactly as we’d like it to. All we can hope for is good faith efforts based on the best ideas at the time, and the perseverance to see them through. I believe the President is making that effort. Regardless of the inevitable mistakes and the incessant “shoulda, woulda, coulda” carping that accompanies such a crisis, I hope to be able to continue to support him because without that support things will only get worse.




6.4/93.6

“Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something.”
— Plato
 
Posts: 47368 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Lawyers, Guns
and Money
Picture of chellim1
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Betsy McCaughey warns that the death toll from the virus will ultimately pale from those who died as a direct result of the lockdown:

...The academics and public-health officials who have concocted models of the virus' spread are telling us that we have to continue the shutdown to save thousands of lives. It's too bad none of their models considers the deaths that will be caused by unemployment...

Job losses cause extreme suffering. Every 1 percent hike in the unemployment rate will likely produce a 3.3 percent increase in drug-overdose deaths and a 0.99 percent increase in suicides, according to data from the National Bureau of Economic Research and the medical journal Lancet.

These are facts based on past experience, not models. If unemployment hits 32 percent, some 77,000 Americans are likely to die from suicide and drug overdoses as a result of layoffs. Deaths of despair. Then add the predictable deaths from alcohol abuse by caused by unemployment. Health economist Michael French from the University of Miami found a "significant association between job loss" and binge drinking and alcoholism.

The impact of layoffs goes beyond suicide, drug overdosing and drinking, however. Overall, the death rate for an unemployed person is 63 percent higher than for someone with a job, according to findings in the journal Social Science & Medicine. Now do the math: Layoff-related deaths could far outnumber the 60,400 coronavirus deaths predicted by University of Washington researchers. This comparison isn't meant to understate the horror of the coronavirus for those who get it and their families. But heavy-handed state edicts to close all "nonessential businesses" need to be reassessed in light of the predictable harm to the lives, livelihoods and health of the uninfected...

We must count the deaths from shutdowns as well as from coronavirus
https://nypost.com/2020/04/14/...as-from-coronavirus/



"Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible."
-- Justice Janice Rogers Brown

"The United States government is the largest criminal enterprise on earth."
-rduckwor
 
Posts: 23951 | Location: St. Louis, MO | Registered: April 03, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Freethinker
Picture of sigfreund
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by trapper189:
Nobody said that.


True, not in those words, and I have been accused of making “straw man” arguments before, which is what you’re in effect doing. I have neither the time and inclination nor am I foolish enough to keep track of which members said what exactly in discussions like this and then rub their noses in it later. I don’t know who all the posters are who have thus far tried to minimize concerns about this disease, but that has been extremely common throughout this thread. The third post on the very first page was a dismissive comment about the fact that four—count ’em—four people had died from the disease at the time.

Countless subsequent posts have been in a similar vein from references to all the other things that can kill us to strongly expressed doubts that the percentages of deaths in different locations are anywhere near as high as they’re reported by the media and various authorities. There are also innumerable references to the ages and health conditions of those who have died. All those statements are clearly intended to express the posters’ opinions that concerns about the seriousness of the disease are overblown and that the measures to contain it are excessive. And I don’t even necessarily disagree with the latter. Perhaps we should just let things play out and see what happens. But that, fortunately, isn’t up to me to decide.

The possible seriousness of the disease to the individual, however, is another matter. As with all “novel” diseases, we are still learning the full extent of that. That was the reason for my posting the article and the reason for my comment about “sniffles.” (I don’t believe, BTW, that you are the only person here who ever used that word, but if you were my comment was not directed at you personally.)

Our discussion here is unlikely to have any influence whatsoever on governmental policy and actions. What we can as individuals do on a forum like this, though, is point out when ignorance and diseased thinking can contribute to bad individual decisions. I have avoided doing that as much as I could have throughout this discussion, but every now and then I believe it’s justified.




6.4/93.6

“Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something.”
— Plato
 
Posts: 47368 | Location: 10,150 Feet Above Sea Level in Colorado | Registered: April 04, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Lawyers, Guns
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Picture of chellim1
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quote:
The possible seriousness of the disease to the individual, however, is another matter. As with all “novel” diseases, we are still learning the full extent of that....

Our discussion here is unlikely to have any influence whatsoever on governmental policy and actions. What we can as individuals do on a forum like this, though, is point out when ignorance and diseased thinking are contributing to bad individual decisions.

sigfreund: I agree.
The important distinction is between governmental policy (force) and individual decisions.
I'm perfectly willing to restrict my own activity without imposing my personal choice on others.



"Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible."
-- Justice Janice Rogers Brown

"The United States government is the largest criminal enterprise on earth."
-rduckwor
 
Posts: 23951 | Location: St. Louis, MO | Registered: April 03, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
SIGforum's Berlin
Correspondent
Picture of BansheeOne
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quote:
Originally posted by PowerSurge:
I talked to a friend of mine Sunday that lives in Bro, Sweden just north of Stockholm. He said all the reports that you’re seeing where the media is saying Sweden is completely open are lies. Many bakeries and restaurants and other places are temporarily closed or are takeout only and many people are staying at home. He says Sweden has basically a “soft lockdown“ as he put it.


"Soft" insofar as the government issued mostly recommendations rather than orders, trusting in responsible behavior of most citizens. Which I find a more sympathetic approach, though I'm not sure whether it's "better" in an overall sense. As usual, it's hard to make direct comparisons; Sweden currently has more than double the deaths per million inhabitants as neighboring Denmark, and more than four times as Norway, both with about half as many people. Then again that's still less than in Switzerland with its roughly equal population and very strict and early measures, and two thirds of the UK and Netherlands which initially went with a hands-off approach, then changed tack and clamped down.

There is the point that some countries which went tough early now feel confident enough to carefully ease up again. Denmark reopened daycares and elementary schools today (which have remained open in Sweden throughout). Austria lifted the ban for small shops this week and intends to follow with bigger ones and outdoor sports facilities at the start of May; hotels, restaurants and schools from mid-May. All with appropriate limitations, and public events are to remain banned until the end of June.

Locally, reports on draft agreements between the federal and state governments are that shops with up to 800 square meters and some businesses like garages, bike and book shops will be allowed again from next week. Contact restrictions and border controls to remain until at least 3 May, after which barbershops, some schools and cultural institutions like libraries may be reopened, again with appropriate precautions. Major public events to remain banned until the end of August.
 
Posts: 2407 | Location: Berlin, Germany | Registered: April 12, 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post
No, not like
Bill Clinton
Picture of BigSwede
posted Hide Post
The hospital where my wife works in the radiology dept, stopped supplying anyone that is not a Dr or a nurse with PPE of any kind. Mad Even if they have to scan a Covid positive patient Mad

I found a local sign company that is making face shields and bought some for her and her dept.

Here's a big FUCK YOU to HCA, fuckin assholes.

They are only concerned with keeping their lips firmly attached to the Government teat.



 
Posts: 5302 | Location: GA | Registered: September 23, 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Oh stewardess,
I speak jive.
Picture of 46and2
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by sigfreund:
....

I for one hope you continue, unabated.
 
Posts: 25613 | Registered: March 12, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Member
posted Hide Post
quote:
To my knowledge, no one blamed Woodrow Wilson for the effects of the “Spanish” flu a century ago.

That is what the leftists (which Wilson was) and their propaganda media are already doing and will continue to do …..blame Trump, no matter what.
Let some business open back up and let them put precautions in place for employees who wish to return to work, limit the number of people in the store if they like and we can still stop large gatherings like sports etc. for just awhile longer. What I have seen seems to show we have reached the peak so let things start to return to more normal beginning May 1.
 
Posts: 887 | Location: North Carolina | Registered: December 14, 2019Reply With QuoteReport This Post
wishing we
were congress
posted Hide Post
https://www.breitbart.com/poli...ood-tests-this-week/

Abbott Laboratories announced on Wednesday that it will ship one million coronavirus antibody blood tests this week.

The Illinois-based global health care leader is the first to market with this test that many medical experts say is a key element of a plan to reopen the country while a coronavirus vaccine is under development.

“Abbott is significantly scaling up its manufacturing for antibody testing and is expecting to immediately ship close to 1 million tests this week to U.S. customers, and will ship a total of 4 million tests in total for April. The company is ramping up to 20 million tests in the U.S. in June and beyond as it expands the tests to run on its new Alinity™ i system,” Abbott said in its statement.

“Antibody testing is an important next step to tell if someone has been previously infected. It will provide more understanding of the virus, including how long antibodies stay in the body and if they provide immunity. This type of knowledge could help support the development of treatments and vaccines,” the statement noted.

The company described the test as “a lab-based serology blood test for the detection of the antibody, IgG, that identifies if a person has had the novel coronavirus (COVID-19).”

While molecular testing detects whether someone has the virus, antibody tests determine if someone was previously infected.

Abbott’s SARS-CoV-2 IgG test identifies the IgG antibody, which is a protein that the body produces in the late stages of infection and may remain for up to months and possibly years after a person has recovered. Abbott’s IgG antibody test will initially be available on its ARCHITECT® i1000SR and i2000SR laboratory instruments*. More than 2,000 of these instruments are in use in U.S. laboratories. These instruments can run up to 100-200 tests per hour.
 
Posts: 19506 | Registered: July 21, 2002Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Picture of Orive 8
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100s if not thousands protesting the Governor of Michigan's edict!

LOVE IT Big Grin Big Grin Big Grin

https://wwjnewsradio.radio.com...test-stay-home-order

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Orive 8,


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tomorrow's battle is won during today's practice.
 
Posts: 1890 | Location: Collier Twp, PA | Registered: June 08, 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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Hooray Abbott Laboratories!
 
Posts: 11744 | Location: Western Oklahoma | Registered: June 18, 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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