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What does Israel do with captured Hamas prisoners? I doubt they execute them. Putting them in jail isn't a permanent solution. They will not be deprogrammed or rehabilitated. Trading them for Israeli or other western prisoners ensures they will rejoin the fight. Seems to me they need a real "take no prisoners" or "shoot on sight" policy for all Hamas. What else can they do? | |||
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Fighting the good fight |
With every additional day allowing them to further entrench. This is going to be a brutal fight, like Fallujah on steroids. Consider that the 2nd Battle of Fallujah consisted of 4k insurgents fighting in ~5 square miles. Whereas northern Gaza represents 10x the enemy combatants in an area over 10x larger. | |||
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A day late, and a dollar short |
I worry that with all the Jew hating neighbors surrounding Israel, this will become a major war. ____________________________ NRA Life Member, Annual Member GOA, MGO Annual Member | |||
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Member |
That's a shame. . | |||
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Made from a different mold |
I'll bet that more than half of the council were present in Tahir Square, Baghdad, Iraq (see page 29) calling for Jewish blood, but suddenly they want us to believe they're not terrorists themselves. ___________________________ No thanks, I've already got a penguin. | |||
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No More Mr. Nice Guy |
Biden was speaking at the Human Rights Campaign annual national dinner. It sounds like a big event for that organization. HRC is very anti-Israel. While their main topic is LGBTQ (the blue equal sign or captain's bars are theirs), they support progressive leftist politicians. Were the White House staff unaware of this group's politics? Are they ignorant of the implication of POTUS speaking there considering the war in Israel? Are they that incompetent or are they acting with intention? | |||
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Ammoholic |
I know it would be fraught with challenges, the only thing I could imagine would end the cycle of violence in the region. My idea is a giant land swap combined with huge international support and contributions. Isreal absorbs Gaza and gives a even larger area of land to the West Bank. Isreal bulldozes and rebuilds Gaza and moves the displaced Israelis there or elsewhere in Israel. The international community builds brand new cities in the newly ceded land in West Bank. This would provide for one larger contiguous Palestinian state and better economic opportunities for the people of gaza who can focus on building a new home/life vs attacking Jews. The amount of aid pouring into Gaza currently could be redirected the newly enlarged West Bank to build housing, schools, hospital, and other vital infrastructure. So the expenses wouldn't be nearly as large as one might imagine. This would also eliminate the contentious settlements in/near/around the West Bank. It would take a bold initiative and huge amounts of trust. Isreal would have to relocate massive numbers of people and Gazans would have to give up the place they call home. If it worked, Isreal would be rid of this sliver of land that causes great security concerns and Gazans would have a new opportunity for a new life with better economic opportunities. The building of new cities in the West Bank would instantly make hundreds of thousands of new jobs. People with good jobs and prospects for a better life are way less likely to take up jihad as a job. It would be nearly impossible to pull off and filled with doubts on both sides, but continuing down the path they've been on is untenable. Every 12-18 months Gaza does terrorist attacks and Isreal responds with their military, this just sows more hatred and worse economics. I'm sure it would never happen, but the only way to truly eliminate Hamas is to give them a better life, this will never happen with the status quo. Jesse Sic Semper Tyrannis | |||
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Member |
This pile of defective gray matter didn't come up with these phrases on her own. Some college professor, or professors, programmed her like an AI bot. She was an empty husk, now she is filled with hate. . | |||
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wishing we were congress |
water and power in Gaza https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/article-768005 Energy Minister Israel Katz vowed Thursday that Israel would not allow basic resources or humanitarian aid into Gaza until Hamas released the people it kidnapped during its surprise weekend onslaught. Israel contended that if it allowed fuel and power into Gaza, Hamas might divert these resources for use in the conflict against Israel. They also maintained that the lack of electricity in Gaza was because only affluent members of Hamas had access to fuel and generators in their residences and not because of Israel's decision. According to Dr. Elai Rettig of the Department of Political Studies at Bar-Ilan University and a researcher at the at the Begin-Sadat (BESA) Center for Strategic Studies, Israel supplies around 50% of Gaza's energy. Still, the electricity supply in Gaza is not suitable during peace times. Before the Hamas attack, the typical Gaza resident had only access to approximately four hours of uninterrupted electricity daily. This situation could be primarily attributed to the damage that Gaza's electrical infrastructure sustained during Operation Protective Edge in 2014. Despite receiving substantial foreign assistance, Hamas did not undertake the necessary repairs to restore the grid. As a result, Gaza residents found independent solutions: They put small, diesel-powered generators in their houses or installed solar panels on their rooftops, Rettig explained. These solar panels provide about 25% of energy during the day. "All of this means that the effect of cutting off the energy supply to Gaza is rather limited," Rettig said. When it comes to diesel, this does come through Israel. The gas is refined in Haifa and brought to Gaza. In addition, sometimes Hamas buys more expensive diesel from Egypt. Israel said that both diesel trucks from Egypt and Israel would not enter the strip. Therefore, the diesel will eventually run out. "Hamas claimed that the diesel had already run out in its powerplant. This is unlikely because they should have already had enough diesel to last at least a week or two," Rettig contended. "If there is no diesel, Hamas took it all." He said the terrorists may have robbed the diesel for use in their underground headquarters and bunkers so that they could continue to operate. However, he noted that this electricity shortage could have a separate consequence: its impact on the water supply and water sewage treatment. "Without constant electricity, the water can't flow in the pipelines," Rettig said. "If in a week or two weeks, most of the electricity in Gaza will shut down, the water supply will shut down, creating a major shortage." Israel has also threatened to cease supplying water to Gaza. Still, Israeli water is not an issue, added Eyal Pinko of the Department of Political Studies at Bar-Ilan University. "Israel supplies only 10% of water to Gaza. So, even if we stop our share, they will still have water," he contended. So, is the simple act of cutting off electricity and water against international law? While Rettig said that international law during the war was never straightforward, he sensed that "Israel is meeting the basic criteria." "We are not bombing the power plants, which would be collective punishment," Rettig said. "We are not taking away the option for them to generate electricity. Israel is temporarily cutting off Gaza's share [of electricity] for tactical reasons - and using the time to hinder its enemy's ability to monitor and attack Israeli forces." He said, "As long as Israel can say, and so far Israel can say, that it is taking action for a limited time frame, then it is not a war crime." Moreover, the move may be essential for bringing the conflict to a close sooner rather than later and with fewer casualties, according to Pink. He said there would be two ways to end this war: "choking them with a siege or putting boots on the ground in operation." Rettig agreed. However, he added that if the blockade continues for more than a week or two and there is no electricity or diesel to operate the Gaza power plant, the situation may be considered differently. | |||
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Member |
This pre-supposes that the people taking up terrorism actually want jobs, and do not want to attack Jews. Iran has no real reason to hate Israel nor Jews based on economic conditions or competition over territory. Yet, they spend billions of dollars per year to attack Jews and repeatedly make public declarations that their intent is the total destruction of Israel. Given that they back up their words with actions, why would anyone not believe them? It's not about jobs nor living conditions. This space intentionally left blank. | |||
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Coin Sniper |
Therein lies the problem. It is possible that this global council of Imams outside of the middle east see the potential ramifications and quickly seek to distance themselves. Based on how long this took to come out I'll guess it involved a LOT of discussion as likely they will face some backlash in the Muslim world. The flip side of that is based on my understanding of Islam, the devout believer has no requirement to be honest in any way with any unbelievers. Therefore it is equally possible this is simply a ruse in an effort to further complicate the situation for those employing western thinking. At this point, only those Imams know... Pronoun: His Royal Highness and benevolent Majesty of all he surveys 343 - Never Forget Its better to be Pavlov's dog than Schrodinger's cat There are three types of mistakes; Those you learn from, those you suffer from, and those you don't survive. | |||
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Ammoholic |
The other two options, live with status quo or kill them all are not really appealing. It would take a giant leap of faith on both sides and huge amounts of international aid and cooperation. It would be extremely unlikely of happening, at the minimum though it's a discussion worth having. I agree that deep seeded hatred would still exist, but I think it would be greatly blunted if you could raise your family in peace and more prosperity. I think there are people who want to live in peace and people who want to kill the Jews, but there are many in the middle that can be swayed towards or away from jihad with the right incentive structures. Jesse Sic Semper Tyrannis | |||
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Member |
Here's your Sunday feel-good story about Harvard: *Saw this Instapundit comment on the article "18-year-olds go to wars that these 19-year-old Harvard grads will create with their stupidity."
https://www.businessinsider.co...ional=true&r=US&IR=T ...let him who has no sword sell his robe and buy one. Luke 22:35-36 NAV "Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves; so be shrewd as serpents and innocent as doves." Matthew 10:16 NASV | |||
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Peace through superior firepower |
Indeed. Say what you wish, but never believe that there cannot be consequences attached to what you say publicly. I find it quite amusing that all of a sudden, leftists and Hamas supporters are quite concerned about the integrity of free speech. The entire cancel culture ethos involves punishing people for expressing beliefs and opinions counter to the dogma of the left and yet, when it's applied to them... | |||
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Ammoholic |
Maybe that's not a bad thing to make someone think twice about condoning genocide. If you publicly support terrorism maybe you won't be an organizational fit for our company. Jesse Sic Semper Tyrannis | |||
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Member |
These students are expressing fear -- fuck you. You know what's really scary - that people like these students get jobs and vote. And they aren't being silenced. Nobody is taking their platform away unlike what the left has done to conservatives and such. They are actually being given a bullhorn so that everyone can know what they are thinking and saying. It's their thoughts and what they are saying that is the issue, not bullhorn. These idiots couldn't put 1 and 1 together if it was spelled out for them. I don't give a flying fuck that they 'need to work' or that they have 'student loans' - why should evil be given a job? "Wrong does not cease to be wrong because the majority share in it." L.Tolstoy "A government is just a body of people, usually, notably, ungoverned." Shepherd Book | |||
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Member |
The only sane thing he has said. | |||
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wishing we were congress |
perhaps the invasion delay was not because of weather https://townhall.com/tipsheet/...r-in-israel-n2629863 As Hamas rockets rained down on Israel, U.S. Senators were forced to take shelter during their trip to the Jewish country. Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer (D-NY), Sen. Mitt Romney (R-Utah), Sen. Bill Cassidy (R-La), Sen. Jacky Rosen (D-Nev..), and Sen. Mark Kelly (D-Ariz.) traveled to Tel Aviv this weekend to show solidarity as the deadly Hamas attacks killed at least 29 Americans and 1, 300 people. what a useless group of U.S. senators. Maybe Kelly can explain why it was good the Israeli citizens were not armed when Hamas attacked Meanwhile, White House National Security Council spokesman John Kirby said the United States is "actively trying" to find American hostages who may being held in Gaza. This comes as the deadline expires for Palestinians to flee Gaza as Israeli troops were slated to storm the country. Fox News host Shannon Bream asked Kirby if the U.S. would deploy American troops in order to locate missing people being held in Gaza. Kirby suggested that there are no current plans to put U.S. boots on the ground. Israel delayed its ground invasion due to new intelligence hostages taken by Hamas in Gaza. [????] According to Fox News, Former Israeli special operator Aaron Cohen suggested: “that buying time to save hostages is a top priority for Israeli forces, and a phony delay of the invasion may have offered extra time.” “What we need is what Israel does best. They come together, they're creative. They've got the intestinal fortitude. They've got the experience, and right now thousands of phone calls are being listened to. You're about to see Israel [do] what it does best: rescue good people. So stand by," Cohen said if listening to phone calls is gathering intel, perhaps former special operators should keep their mouths shut | |||
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Member |
This is a good read: https://pjmedia.com/news-and-p...nt-tell-you-n1734997 Everything You Need to Know About the Israeli Occupation (That Is, Everything the Left Won’t Tell You) BY ROBERT SPENCER 6:10 PM ON OCTOBER 13, 2023 There would be peace in the Middle East if Israel just ended its occupation, right? That’s what the Squad wants you to think, anyway. The statements of the three primary members of this winsome leftist House coalition on the Hamas massacres in Israel had the distinct odor of canned talking points. Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-Make Mine A Double) issued a statement that said, “I condemn Hamas’ attack in the strongest possible terms.” That was a good start, but she then turned on a dime to blame it all on Israel: “No child and family should ever endure this kind of violence and fear, and this violence will not solve the ongoing oppression and occupation in the region.” Ongoing oppression and occupation, see? If Israel would just ease up on the poor Palestinians, Hamas jihadis would all open restaurants and shops, and peace would dawn upon the region. Not to be outdone, Rep. Ilhan Omar (D-Mogadishu) tweeted, “We know occupation and systematic apartheid are a violation of international law and it must end.” The Larry of this illustrious triumvirate (in case you’re wondering, Ilhan is Moe, the mean one, and AOC is Curly, the funny one), Rep. Rashida Tlaib (D-Ramallah), chimed in with this: “I grieve the Palestinian and Israeli lives lost yesterday, today, and every day. I am determined as ever to fight for a just future where everyone can live in peace, without fear and with true freedom, equal rights, and human dignity. The path to that future must include lifting the blockade, ending the occupation, and dismantling the apartheid system that creates the suffocating, dehumanizing conditions that can lead to resistance.” So all three are in agreement: Israel’s occupation is the problem. It’s a shame that we don’t have any real journalists today, because someone should ask the same question to all three of them: “If Israel is occupying Palestinian land, can you please explain the basis in international law for Palestinian ownership of this land?” They all likely assume that there was a previous Palestinian state that the Israelis occupied and destroyed, but in reality, there has never been a Palestinian state of any kind, ever, at any point in history. There has been a region known as “Palestine” since 134AD, when the Romans applied that name to the land that had previously been known as Judea, that is, land of the Jews. But “Palestine” was akin to “Staten Island” — it was only the name of a region, never of a people or a nation. By the beginning of the twentieth century, the Ottoman Empire had sovereignty over the territory that is now Israel and the supposedly occupied land as well. The Ottoman Empire was, however, known by this time as “The Sick Man of Europe.” In the early 1920s, just before the empire fell altogether, it conceded control of Palestine and the land that came to be known as Transjordan and now as Jordan to the League of Nations. On July 24, 1922, the League granted administrative control over these territories to Britain with specific instructions to create a “national home for the Jewish people.” Britain immediately turned over 77% of the Mandate to the Arabs to create Jordan but remained generally committed to establishing a Jewish national home in the remainder. This was known as the Mandate for Palestine. Sometimes Leftists point to it as the Palestinian state that supposedly predated Israel, but this claim relies on the ignorance of the fact that this British territory had been explicitly set aside for Jewish settlement; nine years before the founding of the modern state of Israel, a 1939 flag of “Palestine” sports a star of David. When the State of Israel was founded in 1948, it immediately had to fight a war for its survival against the surrounding Arab nations that had vowed to destroy it. Then there was finally an occupation — in fact, two: Egypt occupied Gaza and Jordan occupied Judea and Samaria (which it renamed the West Bank). Israel won back those territories in the Six-Day War of 1967, but that was actually ending an occupation, not starting one: the only international law governing sovereignty over those territories stipulated that they were to be part of a national home for the Jewish people. So from whom was the land stolen? Not from the Ottomans, who had ceded it to the League of Nations. Not from the league, which had granted administrative powers over it to the British. Not from the British, who only had it in order to help create a Jewish state there. And not from the Palestinians, who didn’t even exist until the 1960s, when the KGB and Yasir Arafat bestowed Palestinian nationality upon a group of Levantine Arabs as a rhetorical weapon to use against Israel. And it has worked beautifully. The idea that Israel is occupying Palestinian land was furthered in the 1990s by the Oslo Accords, to which Israel unwisely acceded, and in which it agreed to work toward the establishment of a Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza, which would only become a new base for more jihad attacks against a diminished Jewish state. But a Palestinian state, if it is ever created, would be the first-ever such entity in the history of the world. There is actually no Israeli occupation at all. The Squad, and the left in general, is either ignorant or malicious. Or, of course, both. . | |||
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Member |
That was Hamas's stated goal, but as typical it will not work out the way they thought. -c1steve | |||
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