I think that you can hold a Christian position and a position that Israel has a right to exist/self-defense. We should not work to exclude strident supporters of the Jewish state, who also might be Christians, agnostics, or atheists, etc.

^^^To whom and/or what are you responding to? At the very least, Christians would/should believe in ALL fundamental/inalienable rights for ALL; that anyone (individual, country, religion) has the right to the free exercise their beliefs/religion, and the right to live in peace, as well as the obvious right to exist/self-defense. These rights are irrevocable unless their exercise would infringe on the rights of others to the same! It is fundamentally Christian to have such positions. Is there any legitimate question as to whether one could hold a Christian position AND defend Israel's right to exist/self-defense, and if so, by whom? Are WE 'working to exclude strident supporters of the Jewish state, and if so, please define 'we'?

I believe one can't call themselves "Christian" if they don't fully support Israel and the Jewish people.

The Jews are God's chosen people. I stand behind Israel as an American, but more importantly, as a Christian.

I hope they throw the book at this scumbag:

Anti-Israel protester who told ‘Zionists’ to ID themselves on NYC subway arrested, revealed to be research tech Anas Saleh

At least deport him back to whatever Middle Eastern armpit he came from.

quote:

Originally posted by sigmonkey:

...
The whole world needs to decide where to push all their chips in and let the spinning wheel ride or take their chips and walk away....

You're expecting a lot from humanity. Like A LOT.
You are probably going to come up disappointed, my friend.

Me? I'm with you. As are probably 99.9% of the members here.
But as for a lot of other people, and I'm talking a boat load, probably don't care. Just as long as the protest doesn't get between them and the Starbucks.

Ignorance and Apathy are a huge problem.

^^^^
VERY WELL SAID.

Despite the hoodie and the big D after his name, the right choice was made here to support Isreal.

quote:

Originally posted by PASig:
I hope they throw the book at this scumbag:

Anti-Israel protester who told ‘Zionists’ to ID themselves on NYC subway arrested, revealed to be research tech Anas Saleh

At least deport him back to whatever Middle Eastern armpit he came from.

From the article:
“It will now be the responsibility of the district attorney to ensure that this antisemite is prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law ..."

Who's the district attorney, Allen Bragg? Don't expect much.

quote:

Originally posted by bald1:
Despite the hoodie and the big D after his name, the right choice was made here to support Isreal.

And he is catching HELL from the Left on all of this, it's crazy to watch it all unfold. I'm on a Pennsylvania page on Reddit and these Reddit leftists HATE him now, calling him a brain-damaged idiot, a retard, he should be removed, he's turning into a Republican, and on and on and on.

And when I try to point out that THEY elected this guy and WE tried to say that maybe it wasn't a good idea to elect someone with brain damage, that YOU all called us "haters" and "Ableist" for that and we we were told to STFU. Instant downvoting and dog-piling vicious replies from them commences after after that. <SHRUG>

Maybe (probably?) it was on this thread, so apologies if it is a repeat...

Fetterman in a recent interview said that his stroke and recovery, awakened him to his mortality and that he need not worry about what people think of him. He was freed to speak his mind. Idk if he is just playing games for his own benefit with that statement, but he certainly seems to be genuine these days.

Still don't trust fetterman. What's his voting record in Congress?

Biden: Israel and Hamas have agreed to ceasefire, hostage deal framework

https://www.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-810103

I find it rather disappointing that Israel is willing to compromise rather than remove/destroy Hamas. The "Stop the War" crowd is doing Hamas a huge favor.

Unfortunately it has been clear for half a year that Israel as a nation either didn't have, or squandered the material ressources and/or will for an effective campaign against Hamas. Several factors:

- Long-standing internal divisions, with center-left seculars, national-religious right-wingers and the ultra-Orthodox Haredim the major conflict groups, brought to a head by the controversial reform plans of the new Netanyahu administration last year, particularly on curbing the power of the supreme court. From what I see, most Israelis actually agree the court is too powerful and should be reformed, but this approach was widely seen as both overreaching and self-serving by a government with several members including Netanyahu himself either under investigation or previously convicted for corruption, tax fraud etc., their first action in office having been to change the law so some of them could become cabinet members despite having a criminal record. Plus plans also included putting the national election board under control of the sitting government, giving the strongest party in an election extra seats in the Knesset, giving the national security minister his own politically loyal paramilitary force, warrantless searches for illegal weapons, all in a country with no consolidated written constitution. That triggered the unprecedented mass protests, with military reservists refusing to be called up because "that's not what we swore to defend".

- The 7 October attack hit mostly southern Israeli kibbutzniks guided by the secular center-left values of the country's founding generation, and young ravers trending the same way. The shock of the attack momentarily brought the country together, but divisions were only pasted over; the most-affected political demographic accused Netanyahu that his policy had always been to preserve Hamas in Gaza as a competitor to the Fatah-led Palestinian Authority in the West Bank IOT prevent a two-state solution with a united Palestinian leadership, permitting suitcases of cash to be flown from Hamas HQ in Qatar into Gaza, transferring a commando company from the border to the West Bank on the eve of the attack to protect national-religious settlers who had been looking for trouble there with political backup from some right-wing government members, dividing the country with his reform plans as above - and of course, letting the attack happen in the first place, as it quickly emerged that various warnings had been ignored.

- The hostage issue became particularly polarizing, as some left-wing Knesset members seized on the demands of relatives to bring them home "at all cost" as a rally point against the government. Things quickly turned heated as right-wing politicians in turn denigrated the families, called them traitors, etc.; public pressure led to the first truce and exchange of hostages vs. Palestinian prisoners in November, but the issue hasn't gone away. The longer the war has been going on inconclusively, the louder accusations have grown that Netanyahu is actually not interested in a resolution, because then he would have to face elections and questions of his responsibility for 7 October and subsequent events.

- As noted before, the unprecedented scale and duration of mobilization of reservists quickly led to economic repercussions, and by the end of the year five brigades were pulled out of Gaza on this expressive reason in favor of "smart force management". There's a political twist in that it has long been contentious that many ultra-Orthodox don't serve but devote themselves to religious study, living on public support and the work of their women. Once a small minority, they now comprise up to ten percent of the population due to rapidly growing demographics, with disproportionate political clout because their parties have frequently been vital for the Knesset majority of right-wing governments. The supreme court repeatedly ruling the draft exemption to have no legal basis was in fact one driver for the plans to curb its power by the current one. Just last month the court finally ruled that the IDF must start drafting Haredim immediately, and it's threatening to blow up Netanyahu's coalition. In the meantime, the term of conscripted service has been increased by four months for everyone.

- Multiple high-profile incidents like an armed citizen who stopped a terror attack and three escaped hostages being killed by IDF troops despite doing everything to identify themselves, as well as a convoy by an aid organization which Israel was actually trying to establish as an alternative to notoriously pro-Palestinian UNRWA being bombed, have raised doubts about a "kill'em all, let God sort'em out" attitude in Israel itself, which plays back directly to the fundamental hostage issue. Not to speak of international support, which Israel hasn't the means to ignore. Regarding the US in particular, if you have an eighth of your defense spending being underwritten by another nation, you also make yourself succeptible to the winds of domestic politics in that nation. I've said it before, Israel is now pretty much in the same spot as Ukraine: they can't continue the war without outside support, which is eroding because noone can see where this going. Luckily, unlike for Ukraine this war is not immediately existential for them; but they're looking at a repeat of the same cycle of shit which has been going on since Hamas took over Gaza in 2007, over and over again.

quote:

Originally posted by downtownv:
Biden: Israel and Hamas have agreed to ceasefire, hostage deal framework

https://www.jpost.com/breaking-news/article-810103

I find it rather disappointing that Israel is willing to compromise rather than remove/destroy Hamas. The "Stop the War" crowd is doing Hamas a huge favor.

This is why I'd be a horrible world leader. I would tell Hamas here's you ceasefire deal - once all of you are dead I will cease firing. If you don't like that option, there is option two. Release all hostages unconditionally and you have 72 hours to arrange safe passage to exile and we uncease firing after 72 hours.

"The US president said..."

Netanyahu is playing the game of "We're negotiating" when in fact it is in words only for consumption, while he continues to push forward in eliminating the head of the snake while he has opportunity.

The US is not interested in supporting Israel's efforts to eliminate HAMAS, it (this administration) is interested in self serving no matter the cost to anyone else.

And not a word of the US Citizens held hostage, by this admin.

quote:

Originally posted by downtownv:
And not a word of the US Citizens held hostage, by this admin.

Deja vu, all over again...

quote:

Originally posted by Skins2881:
This is why I'd be a horrible world leader. I would tell Hamas here's you ceasefire deal - once all of you are dead I will cease firing.

That essentially is Netanyahu's approach. They were doing fine until mid-December, too, continuing to make slow but sustained inroads into Gaza after the earlier truce and hostage deal, but then went out of economic and political steam. So they mostly pulled out, took a break, went back in, and after two more months of fighting are broadly back where they were in December, with a slightly different distribution of controlled territory.

In theory they could have prioritized destroying Hamas over their economy and driven their troops harder, starting to conscript Haredim last year already to get more fresh manpower while ignoring the domestic pressure to focus on bringing back the remaining hostages, and ignored the political chances of their government after the target was reached for the nation, too. But in fairness, this is a democracy with a naturally limited taste for sacrifice once a war transforms from repelling an immediate threat to a protracted slugfest on enemy territory with the vague prospect of eradicating the threat once and for all; compounded by the small size and inner divisions of Israel. Unfortunately at this point, it looks like Hamas might survive this at least in some form, even if not with their previous power.

There seems to be a sentiment by locals there that the war against Hamas will be very long term still, given an ideological basis. Even if the current Hamas is completely wiped out, it will resurrect again.

Given this long haul approach and given that civilian hostages need to be saved, prioritize short term in saving the hostages. The view is that civilians should be prioritized even if it makes the military effort more difficult later. Once the hostages are safe, then no holds barred when fire resumes. Hamas will provide a reason very soon to resume fire.

Jihad will never end until they are all dead or Israel has been destroyed utterly. The latter is unacceptable, obviously. The best thing Israel could do would be to begin creating the 2-3 kilometer no-man’s land between them and these psychotic apes. Mine the hell out of it, sophisticated ground sensors to detect digging, machine gun towers, drone swarms, assault drones ready to immediately deal with rocket launch sites, etc. Never let another one of these creatures back in their country.