quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:
Well, I'm sorry, but you watched the wrong video.

Yeah. Misunderstood the directions and took a wrong turn

quote:

Originally posted by chellim1:

It starts with a discussion on race relations in Baltimore... it's well worth the 19:37 it takes to watch.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfEomcHLGfg

Indeed it was! Thanks for the education.

I will now pause to digest this and become accustomed to having my world view fairly significantly altered. Before that, though: There's an article I'm going to have to re-find that discusses this question in detail, and comes to the opposite position of D'Souza. I'll post a URL to it when I find it, and after I've read it more closely.

(Btw: On the face of it: I still disagree with equating "right wing" with libertarianism/classical liberalism, but that's another discussion, I think...)

quote:

Originally posted by 2012BOSS302:

quote:

Originally posted by DonDraper:

quote:

Originally posted by 10-7 leo:
Several points:

The other group, NOT HERS, had the permit to protest.

HER GROUP initiated the violence.

Prior to her being hit, the event, thanks to HER GROUP, devolved into an unlawful assembly, even though (to my knowledge) it wasn't declared as such.

HER GROUP was illegally blocking the road, as BLM and antifa have done, illegally, countless times.

She was not part of an angelic group that was exhibiting angelic behavior.

All the facts have not come out in this case. I'm sure there will be more that do not reflect kindly on HER GROUP.

I find it hard to have sympathy for people that create shit and expect everyone to bow down to their DEMANDS, only to have it bite them in the ass!

Don't start none, won't be none!

Sorry, but once you show up in my town or STREET wearing swastika's and giving the Nazi salute and or while shouting about white power - you better be on your way to a fucking comic-con convention, otherwise I'm going to walk out in the street and tell you to fuck off every which way I can, all day long. Permits? Fuck your permits. I don't know if this girl was simply crossing the road to get to work, or showed up in anger as a reaction to what she was seeing - but I'm sorry she died. I am not going to shed any tears, but I'm certainly not going to be a giant asshole and place any blame on her as many of you have done here.

Ok, I was gonna bow out, but you drag me back in.

Before I start this, I'm going to agree with you in the sense that neo-nazis, KKK Members, or anyone of a similar vein, are total assholes. THey would despise me, since I was raised Catholic, and partially Jewish by blood, and work for their bullshit idea of the "zionist government."

However, who in the hell (and certainly beyond you) gets to decide what "free speech" is acceptable?

THe founding principle behind free speech, is "I may disagree with what you have to say, but will defend to the death your right to say it."

As an American i take that seriously.

There are tons of assholes out there who say things I think are despicable.

Unlike some here, I've stood on a goddamn line, had frozen water bottles, bottles filled with piss, lit fireworks, Molotov cocktails, rocks, bricks, literal SHIT, thrown at me....

All while standing between two groups that hate each other, and have forgotten that we are all living in the greatest country ever created.

You would be hard pressed to find another country where such bullshit would be permitted....

YOu, and no one else, gets to determine what "speech" is OK and what is not OK.

YOu and I might both hate what some asshole says, but we have to respect his right to say it.

We also are given the opportunity to disagree with them and vote, so to speak, with our dollars, or opinions.

Bottom line:

If you believe that race, religion, sexual orientation, or pretty much anything else means you should be a victim you are an asshole.

THe flip side of that coin, is that if you believe that physical violence in any form is an acceptable form or protest towards another person, then you are also an asshole, and I view you as equally as low of a form of life as the former.

If you can't make your argument, or counter argument, or counter, counter argument without violence, then you don't deserve to talk. But, (and this is the exact Crux of it) you SHOULD be allowed to. The rest of us with sense should be able to ignore you and treat you like an imbecile.

Both sides went here LOOKING for a fight.... And now each are trying to out-victimize each other and claim some unobtainable "moral high ground" of which there is none available.

This entire shitshow is wholly Unamerican... and pathetic. EVERYONE should be embarrassed by this. This country is SUPPOSED to be better than this.

quote:

Originally posted by KevinCW:

There are tons of assholes out there who say things I think are despicable.

Unlike some here, I've stood on a goddamn line, had frozen water bottles, bottles filled with piss, lit fireworks, Molotov cocktails, rocks, bricks, literal SHIT, thrown at me....

All while standing between two groups that hate each other, and have forgotten that we are all living in the greatest country ever created.

You would be hard pressed to find another country where such bullshit would be permitted....

YOu, and no one else, gets to determine what "speech" is OK and what is not OK.

YOu and I might both hate what some asshole says, but we have to respect his right to say it.

We also are given the opportunity to disagree with them and vote, so to speak, with our dollars, or opinions.

Bottom line:

If you believe that race, religion, sexual orientation, or pretty much anything else means you should be a victim you are an asshole.

THe flip side of that coin, is that if you believe that physical violence in any form is an acceptable form or protest towards another person, then you are also an asshole, and I view you as equally as low of a form of life as the former.

If you can't make your argument, or counter argument, or counter, counter argument without violence, then you don't deserve to talk. But, (and this is the exact Crux of it) you SHOULD be allowed to. The rest of us with sense should be able to ignore you and treat you like an imbecile.

Both sides went here LOOKING for a fight.... And now each are trying to out-victimize each other and claim some unobtainable "moral high ground" of which there is none available.

This entire shitshow is wholly Unamerican... and pathetic. EVERYONE should be embarrassed by this. This country is SUPPOSED to be better than this.

+1000, Kevin. If the police are expected to standby and let one side or the other commit physical assaults because "A" are a bunch of assholes, then the next time a group that's denied their rights (because they offend someone) could be yours, mine, or our neighbors'.

As angered and disgusted as I was when the BLM demonstrators started marching around calling for cops to be assaulted and murdered, I'd never consider going to the venue to commit physical assaults. Even if I was still a cop, and these assholes decided to commit acts of vandalism or other crimes, I'd take great pleasure in making arrests or using whatever force would be reasonably necessary to do the job , but committing acts of violence for the purpose of retribution? Nope.

When the Nazis decided to demonstrate at Skokie, I was extremely disgusted, but so long as they only made asses out of themselves, I believe the ACLU had it correct in defending their freedom of expression. We're rapidly approaching the point where anarchy will occur and political assassinations might approach what happened during the "Troubles" in Northern Ireland.

If the police don't keep these groups separated and arrest anyone that steps over the line from speech to violent acts, we might as well decide that our Constitution and Bill of Rights were mistaken articles of trust.

Thank you, Kevin, from the bottom of my heart. Both for standing that line and writing those words.

quote:

Originally posted by ensigmatic:
Thank you, Kevin, from the bottom of my heart. Both for standing that line and writing those words.

I'll second that.

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:
"The ACLU, in their Twitter feed, said both sides came for violence," Gingrich said. "The truth is, the president is telling the American people the truth, and the elite corrupt media and the left hates it," he said.

Gingrich should have told it like it is.

quote:

Originally posted by 12131:
Gingrich should have told it like it is.

That's what he just did. What are you talking about?

quote:

Originally posted by parabellum:

quote:

Originally posted by 12131:
Gingrich should have told it like it is.

That's what he just did. What are you talking about?

He said "elite". I crossed that out.

Article in Slate about neo Nazis etc were carrying guns, body armor, camouflage and were prepared for violence. The Second Amendment allowed this but I wonder if their opponents were prepared the same. I believe in free speech but this kind of crap is going overboard and this worries the heck out of me. Why do we need guns at a free speech rally? Do we have a conflict between the First and Second Amendments.

Monuments removed in Baltimore overnight, Lee and Stonewall Jackson base(s) now have black lives matter and f Trump on them.

Fuck these people.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/new...moved-Baltimore.html

quote:

Originally posted by ArLEOret:
Article in Slate about neo Nazis etc were carrying guns, body armor, camouflage and were prepared for violence....

Have you seen any photos of all these guys with guns? I have not. Gov McAuliffe also claimed the Nazis were better armed than the local police. Why are the photos of these not all over on the front pages???

Fascism: Left-wing or Right?

Upon chellim1's and Para's urging I watched Dinesh D'Souza's Comments on the question. The video was enlightening, to say the least. (D'Souza's talks always are.)

But there are other, equally well-argued positions, such as pseudoerasmus' Fascism was not left-wing !!!, in turn countered by Jonah Goldberg's Was Fascism Right-Wing (Again)?.

I'm sure there's a counter to Goldberg's arguments, were I to continue digging.

Here's my take-away: "since there is not 150 years’ worth of fascist doctrinal literature as there is for Marxist writings" (pseudoerasmus), and since fascist governments/leaders appear to say/believe in one thing and practice another (perhaps out of sheer pragmatism?): Fascism is neither left nor right, but embodies components of each.

Furthermore, as I stated earlier, I reject the view that "left is about control and right is about freedom," as we've ample evidence in both history and in current affairs to disprove that assertion.

As such, I maintain the view I expressed earlier: That either leftists or "rightists" can behave in a fascist manner.

All that being said, and, again, as I wrote earlier: In the current political climate it is my view leftists are clearly acting more the fascists and the right more like libertarians or classical liberals.

Nice try, pussies. You aren't fooling anyone.

Pathetic





Also worth watching- In a nutshell: "Oh, now you're condemning violence at political rallies, after a year and a half.":

These folks cannot handle the reality of President Trump. This was not supposed to be.

I live and work in Greensboro now, remember it well as a 12 year old at the time living in a neighboring county. The media seems to always call it the Klan-Nazi shootout leaving out the Communist Workers Party part.

Sigmoid, the article in Slate had photos.