quote:

Originally posted by PGT:
But yes, not ideal for everybody.

And that's all I'm saying. These vehicles can work great for some people.
In your case, they work. Nothing wrong with that.

quote:

Originally posted by Jupiter:

quote:

Originally posted by PGT:
we live in horse country

Try moving where charging stations are few and far between . That would be most of the rural U.S..

A 220v charger, hard wired will give over 25 miles charge per hour while you sleep, or work at home, whatever your preferred charge time.

Our max discount is Midnight to 6AM so we hook up and then the charger starts after midnight, you get up in the AM and it's charged.

100% Charge on my EV is 344 miles of range which is more than enough for a whole week on a single charge including a 100 mile round trip to my Dads house on the weekend. Normally we only charge to 80% weekly as it's faster and less cost, right now after a full week my wife's EV is at 53%, she could effectively drive it almost all week again without a charge.

But you are correct there are open pockets of areas where Electric chargers don't exist, but, there are also lots of areas where you could go in an ICE vehicle and not see a gas station, although not as many.

If doing a longer trip the map software has the ability to route me including chargers along the way, when to stop based on historical averages.

Have to say moving to EV's for at least one ownership cycle has been enlightening,

Fender. I don’t give a shit about globally. You ever been global? I have. Not much in common about Europe and Asia and the US. If you’ve been then you know. If you haven’t you say dumb shit like “well it works in Norway” like that somehow makes fucking sense.

Are the best selling cars or trucks in America EV? No? Fucking shocking I say.

Plus it gets ridiculous listening to you guys reinvent directions. In pretty much all of history you looked at a map and chose the shortest distance and called it good. Now you guys say “well I looked up the destination and let the computer pick a route based on chargers”. Please for the love of all that’s good and holy tell me you understand how ridiculous that sounds when you say it like it’s a good thing. Kind of like the constant mantra that you actually WANT to stop for long enough to have a meal.

Fuck. Who are you people? I stop long enough to fill up, piss, and maybe pick up a slim Jim and an Icee. The rationalizations get old. lol

My charging stops are roughly the length of a piss break, grabbing a drink and stretching my legs a bit; 10-12 minutes and the chargers are generally along normally traveled routes.

On a 450 mile drive to see our daughter at college, a gas vehicle takes 446 miles and 6hrs 52 minutes assuming no fuel stop. Doing so with our Model X, it’s 7hrs 44 min and 447.5 miles (just ran both routes).

Assuming a ten min fuel stop for most gasoline vehicles, that leaves a negligible difference in distance and a 45min time penalty for EV.

Guess what - that’s normally how long I’d stop for lunch anyways unless I’m in a hurry. And my “fuel” cost is $0.00 for the round trip.

pedropcola, be polite to your fellow forum members. Why is this so important to you, that you are being so rude?

Because the rationalizations and outright silly arguments hurt my brain. Reference the above post. PGT is driving a car that starts at $100,000 and actually writes in the post how his gas bill is zero like it actually matters to him. Come on. Yea, that irritates me.

I will move on to merrier subjects however that irk me less. I apologize for my tone to anyone offended.

If you were sincere in your apology, you wouldn't still be taking shots at members.

My Model X was $70K new from Tesla this time last year. Slightly above the new car 2025 average of $50k.

Tesla is known to change pricing structures and promotions week to week. The current price is not apples:apples. They now include a Luxe Pkg for $10k and raised the MSRP $10k after the minor refresh for 2026. And I already said we got $10k off last year’s MSRP and free Supercharging by taking an identical-to-2025 leftover 2024. Trading in our title in hand 2021 offset cost even further by half but at the expense of a new car payment.

My comment about a 900mi round trip costing $0.00 wasn’t about sensitivity to fuel costs but rather as an offset for the minor inconvenience of time spent on a charger.

For the record, I just filled up 23 gallons of Premium at $4.25/gal over 285 miles on my “fun car”. A miserable 12mpg

Hmmm. My post wasn’t directed at PGT, it was at fender bender and his “teslas outsell everything worldwide” post which ignores what their current economic situation is now that the govt isn’t mandating them and which flies in the face of the gist of this thread.

Yes I poked at PGT because rich guys who buy hundred thousand dollar cars and then joke about their gas bills is a bit on the nose for me. Of course it’s not my job to point that out so I will stop. I suspect he was being tongue in cheek as well and I also suspect he wasn’t actually offended by my comment either.

There are a couple topics I should stay away from. EV’s. Steel cased pistol ammo. Pistol braced AR’s. I have strong opinions on these issues. Why, I have no idea. I tend to overstep my welcome in those threads. Sorry.

Edited to add because PGT jumped in first: well there you go, it only a 70k dollar car, I stand corrected. Lol. Teslas are confusing.

What good do you think this self-indulgence does you? You think I want to hear all this from you? I just want you to be polite, and I know it's unnecessary to point out to you that the last word on any matter in this forum, is mine.

Something that I have observed as a EV owner is the negative comments from people who don’t own EV’s. They spout nonsense when they don’t have any experience with one.

I had one guy say they were bad because I couldn’t drive across the country in one. I asked him how many times he ever drove across the country. He said well never. I said exactly and he walked away.

That being said, it kinda reminds me of the folks that say “Why do you need a gun etc”. When again they have no experience with them.

Who cares what other people drive. Own what you want and let others do the same.

I don’t understand why people get upset about EV’s now that the mandates are gone. Mandating them is just wrong.

To each their own is my opinion. Let the market do its thing.

quote:

Originally posted by Jupiter:
You were able let those few words I posted squirm around in your head and come up with all of this? I'm truly impressed.

No. You give yourself too much credit. Your marketing comments, sure, the rest were meant towards someone that was being extremely rude to other forum members with snide comments and taking shots. “All” of that took about 90 seconds to write at best and it’s true. I don’t let anything squirm around my head and don’t get upset at how strangers spend their money either. Certainly not enough to take it out on forum members who vote the same, and have much more in common than in disagreement.

quote:

Originally posted by PR64:
Something that I have observed as a EV owner is the negative comments from people who don’t own EV’s. They spout nonsense when they don’t have any experience with one.

100%. Been listening to it for 12 years and 1 month. Same year the solar I installed went live, and ironically the solar array I learned about from here, SF.

If you read the comments in any vehicle reviews, you’ll quickly find that it seems most everyone is doing 700 mile “road trips” every weekend. The nonsense, will go on, and on. Someone said in this thread that the windshield wipers drain the battery pack and I guess they don’t understand EV’s, at least the ones I have experience with, have 12V batteries like a gas car to run such things. It’s not a phone. People want to control how strangers spend their money an awful lot. And people get real upset when you have something they don’t, or you are doing something a different way. Why it infuriates them so much is anyone’s guess. Their no experience opinions certainly won’t pay your bills.

15-20 years ago, people shamed SUV owners for being wasteful when hybrids sold best. EV’s ramped up in popularity and now people are shamed for owning them.

All that translates (to me) as: “you should drive what I do so I feel validated”

As was said above; why do you care what others drive? Unless it’s a Can-Am trike of course (those are dumb AF)

I'm actually super happy with my Model 3. For its use, it's been a fantastic vehicle. I still have my truck when I need to haul, which is a few times a year, but I've found wall charging on 110v has been what is needed here. Honestly, I'd likely drive my truck more if it was electric too, but it wouldn't make sense unless I lost my work car.

I don't own an EV. I don't plan on buying an EV in my lifetime (I am 71). But I hope that EV's are not dead.

Hear me out. EV's are a great option, but the current EV environment is lacking. We lack cheap electric power to recharge, we lack batteries with sufficient charge capability and lifespan and we lack a recharging system that equals the system of gas stations across the country.
However, if we stop all EV development, the things we lack will continue to be lacking. The idiotic plans to mandate EV by 2030 were doomed to fail. The technology and systems are not ready and will not be ready in 4 years. Auto companies posting billions of dollars in losses are the result of asinine laws not flawed business practices.
If we took a step back and built a rational plan that incorporated ICE and EV development over the next 20 or 25 years, we might have something.
I often think about the Nike missile system. Yeah, in retrospect it was flawed and the reason for it's existence was questionable but after 6 years of design and testing, a massive system was put in place over the course of 10 years. I am sad to say I don't believe we can repeat that feat. Those in Washington can't agree to fund security during a war. It is unrealistic to those same politicians to approve a rational plan for ICE and EV. Time to vote them out.

You guys say there are a lot of dumb, your word not mine, arguments you’ve heard against EV over the years. If you are being honest there are just as many on the EV side as well.

PR you tell us that guy says he wouldn’t want to drive long distance with one but has never driven one. Yet you admit you do drive one and you yourself have range anxiety. So was that guy completely wrong?

Pre, nobody has ever actually told you how you have to spend your car money in reality. You might have felt judged but that isn’t the same. The rest of the country was actually being told how they were going to spend their car money. That is real, they gave us dates and everything. That wasn’t a feeling of being judged that was being given a timeline to implement.

PGT people were shamed for driving SUV's because Americans had been sold on the idea of Peak Oil and global warming. Now that many are questioning the science of both ideas nobody is shaming anybody for buying trucks. Or based on sales figures I should say that the shame isn’t landing.

To ask why people get upset now that the mandates are gone is a bit perhaps short sighted. Why do people get upset over masking or vaccines? I would argue it’s not the mask or the vaccine it is the govt forcing you into both. And we aren’t talking about something deep in the past. These mandates, the EV one specifically, was in place as of 14 months ago. 14 months ago I could produce a chart showing exactly when certain vehicles would no longer be on the market across the country. There is lingering annoyance at the EV mandates and I would argue that it is a good thing because we aren’t talking about the deep past, we are literally always one (1) election away from going back to the exact same mandates. That’s a little scary to me at least.

Back in 2006 I was looking for simple, lower cost car with good mileage. Two contenders were a simple Pontiac Vibe, stick shift, then a Toyota Prius. For what I was looking at, there was a $10k difference in price.

Then I sat down with my calculator, paper, & set to figure out when & if the better mileage of the Prius would ever make up for the $10k price difference. At the time gas was fairly high, maybe near $3 for the period.

I forget the actual mileage difference, should have averaged near 20 miles per gallon. With my calculations, 18k miles a year, 6-7 years of ownership, the Prius never made up for the $10k additional cost.

One may say WTF are you talking about? I’m talking about mathematics of is that EV saving you any $$? One could do the same comparing a $45k(or less) Civic to the $70k(or more) Tesla.

I can’t help but think of that annoying Jennifer Grandholm in the Biden administration. When gas was spiking her advice was to buy an electric vehicle. Is it worth it to buy that EV to avoid the $50 fill up?

I know, many of us drive for the fun factor, nothing wrong with that. I have nothing against windmills, EVs, solar panels whatever. My big peeve is when things are propped up with Government subsidies, especially when ‘crony capitalism’ is involved.

One more thing about EVs, look at the missteps with manufacturers, now backing off from manufacturing. Regardless of what we type here, the market is adjusting.

For those of you with EVs, when you are not charging at home, how much are you paying for electricity at commercial charging stations? From what I have seen, Level 3 chargers aren't cheap.

I did some quick math once and was surprised to find that it could easily rival the cost of gas on cents-per-mile basis. This seems like a real consideration for EV owners who don't have access to cheap charging at home or work.

Bigwagon, charging at commercial chargers can be expensive, up to 5 times or more the cost of charging at home. Some folks have no choice, living in an apartment/condo without charging stations.

You can join Teslas Supercharging program and it reduces the rates, you pay $12 a month for it and it's well worth it depending on the amount of charging you do.

It also pays to shop charger locations, just like you do gas prices if that's your thing using Gas Buddy to find the cheapest fuel. Different Tesla locations have different rates, time of day helps, like any business you max income at the hot times of the day for charging and off peak you can save.

Before we had the home charger installed we used commercial consumer chargers, since I'm a night owl I would go charge after midnight for the super low rates. Plug in spend 30 minutes or so filling up the car while reading SF or some other social media. Now my EV has built in "Pass Time" which allows me to get Netflix, Prime Video and others while parked, so you could watch the NCAA tournament from the "big" screen in the EV..

But the best price is generally home charging, and if you have solar, well you come out way ahead of the game.

BTW It's not all $100K cars that super hard working successful American people buy, you can get a sub $30K brand new Chevrolet EV, right now.

With the current factory rebates on Chevy Equinox EV's you can get a Base 1LT model for sub $30 K out the door. That's well below the market price for an ICE vehicle and not in the super high end market. That's without the federal rebate prices.

As for someone comparing a $45K Civic to a $70K Tesla, well, that doesn't happen any more than someone looking at a $45K civic or a $70K Mercedes. If your budget is $45K for a Civic you will be looking at a $45K Tesla 3 or Y for a comparison, nobody who can afford a $70K and up car that is looking for a luxury car even walks into a Honda dealership for a Civic.

There are plenty of options from $30K to $130K for vehicles in the ICE and EV marketplace. Just buy what you want and like.