I agree what you say is possible. I also think most economists wouldn’t bet the farm on the 96%ers of 6% convincing manufacturers to drop billions on that bet.

As for overseas. Still don’t care. I thought this was a discussion about here. I bet they sell a lot of tea in China too but also a different discussion. lol.

I am the first to acknowledge they are cool tech and fit certain niches well. I just wonder how that tiny share of the market grows sans govt subsidization which the nation seems to have lost its taste for.

I have been wrong before and you guys might be right.

I notice a trend in these discussions. If you don’t own one you don’t know. Like people don’t have friends or visit dealerships or think about adding one. I’ve never tried infidelity either but I’m sure it isn’t for me. lol.

quote:

Originally posted by WingedMedic:

quote:

Originally posted by PGT:
Roughly break-even with gas (but of course lower/no maintenance costs)

You conveniently forgot the fact that Teslas spend about 3x as much as their ICE counterparts in tire costs... for some reason all the EV proponents forget to mention that when talking about their super low maintenance costs. Also, don't forget that EVs are around 50-100% more costly to insure.

? We worked the numbers in the same spreadsheet we work all the vehicles in the fleet. The tire consumption is about the same as any other car, of similar performance. (IOW, it wears tires the way a Porsche, or a Viper, or a twin turbo V8 MB, etc. Not like a Camry or a Jetta.)

The biggest difference is the lack of all the oil changes, transmission services, less brake service, no fuel filters, etc.

We haven't worked numbers yet on the EV Cadillacs, Chevys, Fords, etc - but a Mustang E might be a good place.

The insurance is a significant difference. We didn't see any insurance come out to double, but 50% is probably about right.

quote:

Originally posted by pedropcola:
I agree what you say is possible. I also think most economists wouldn’t bet the farm on the 96%ers of 6% convincing manufacturers to drop billions on that bet.

As for overseas. Still don’t care. I thought this was a discussion about here. I bet they sell a lot of tea in China too but also a different discussion. lol.

I am the first to acknowledge they are cool tech and fit certain niches well. I just wonder how that tiny share of the market grows sans govt subsidization which the nation seems to have lost its taste for.

I have been wrong before and you guys might be right.

I notice a trend in these discussions. If you don’t own one you don’t know. Like people don’t have friends or visit dealerships or think about adding one. I’ve never tried infidelity either but I’m sure it isn’t for me. lol.

The question lol, is "Is the EV dead?" I'm lol just lol telling you there are 10's of millions of them sold every year lol. So the idea of EV's being "dead" is on it's face absurd.

lol.

Would EV's even be here had there not been incentives?
I say probably but very limited, no way near the numbers that have sold with the incentives. And being produced in very limited numbers would further add to cost.

Once battery technology and charge time improve (maybe solid state?) they should become commercially viable on their own for more people. Then the bottle neck will be our power grid that is already under strain.

I remember the lol thread!
lol

quote:

Originally posted by Aglifter:
The insurance is a significant difference. We didn't see any insurance come out to double, but 50% is probably about right.

Insurance on my previous one was $30 a month. New one, $60 a month because well it’s much newer. The insurance is actually the same as a gas car or even less expensive. But I don’t drive a Tesla. But the insurance on my EV is less expensive per month than even my performance car and that performance car is on speciality collector type insurance which is cheap comparatively. Insurance cost is another rabbit hole. Purchase price, zip code, age, married or not, homeowner or not, FICO, accidents or not, tickets or not. My insurance is cheap because it’s a cheap EV. The higher the purchase price of a vehicle, and it doesn’t matter if it’s gas, electric, diesel, whatever, the higher the insurance premiums.

quote:

Originally posted by ridewv:
Would EV's even be here had there not been incentives?
I say probably but very limited, no way near the numbers that have sold with the incentives. And being produced in very limited numbers would further add to cost.

Once battery technology and charge time improve (maybe solid state?) they should become commercially viable on their own for more people. Then the bottle neck will be our power grid that is already under strain.

Have not received incentives on either of mine. Power grid issues I don’t contribute to, in fact it’s the other way around. I put power on the grid unless my HVAC turns on. So I’m contributing to alleviating the strain. Less strain on the grid and less demand on the gas pump.

EV adoption, providing we have more people using solar to offset and build more infrastructure, nuclear plants, etc..well a portion of our oil demand is still imported from outside the USA. Big chunk of that imported oil, the Middle East, and I’m sick of us dealing with the region. So if we could reduce our oil demand, and EV’s could be a major source to do contribute to that as well as natural gas production. The US has the potential to be 100% energy independent and we could tell the Middle East and OPEC to go fuck themselves. I’m always going to continue to use gas as EV’s don’t work for trucks or sporing vehicles to me, and likely never will. Even if they could make an EV truck that could work well, it would be cost prohibitive. But I do like the fact that my EV was made in Tennessee and all the energy that fuels it, is American power, none of it imported unless you consider the Sun importation. And another benefit of having EV and gas vehicles in your household is times like right now, with elevated pump prices due to war/conflict, you are somewhat insulated. I find it ironic that people continue to bitch about EV’s, and then there is a thread about gas prices right underneath it or above it, with people lamenting current gas prices. The irony.

Some of you are just digging to find reasons to justify your disdain for EV's it's hillarious,

Bet that if you were alive in the late 1800's early 1900's you'd be sitting in a chair on a porch talking about how those "contraptions" with explosion engines will never replace your horse!

Insurance on my wife's 2025 EV was slightly less than we were paying for the same coverage on her 2019 Lincoln MKC... Same for my EV..... so that's not a valid statement that insurance is more simply because it's an EV everywhere.

Lot of factors when considering insurance costs from type of vehicle, brand, where you live, and if the company you have now even wants to insure a specific type of vehicle.

quote:

Originally posted by HRK:
Some of you are just digging to find reasons to justify your disdain for EV's it's hillarious,

This is true but it goes both ways. I've seen folks go on an emotional diatribe if anyone simply points out the obvious downsides of owning an EV, and there are many downsides.

quote:

Originally posted by HRK:
Bet that if you were alive in the late 1800's early 1900's you'd be sitting in a chair on a porch talking about how those "contraptions" with explosion engines will never replace your horse!

Some would argue that going from Gas/Hybrid to all electric is a few steps backward. In 2026, that would be the case for most people who don't like the idea of planning their trips around available charging stations and lengthy wait times.


I'm still waiting to hear from those who actually own electric vehicles so they can tell us why they bought one. Do they feel like it saves them money. Were they inspired by the climate change agenda and would like to see gasoline engines go the way of the dinosaurs to help save the planet? Is owning one a status symbol or lifestyle experience? Do they like the big computer screen and lack of physical knobs inside the vehicle?
What makes owning one so damn appealing?

quote:

Originally posted by ridewv:
Would EV's even be here had there not been incentives?
I say probably but very limited, no way near the numbers that have sold with the incentives. And being produced in very limited numbers would further add to cost.

Once battery technology and charge time improve (maybe solid state?) they should become commercially viable on their own for more people. Then the bottle neck will be our power grid that is already under strain.

Just imagine what adding millions of electric vehicles would do to the power grid. At a time when AI companies are installing one data center after another. Adding just one from xAI uses more electricity than all other customers in the state combined that are on Entergy. This is the case here in Mississippi and politicians are trying to pass legislation that will hide the rates they are paying. Those costs will get passed down to customers.

quote:

Originally posted by Jupiter:
I'm still waiting to hear from those who actually own electric vehicles so they can tell us why they bought one. Do they feel like it saves them money. Were they inspired by the climate change agenda and would like to see gasoline engines go the way of the dinosaurs to help save the planet? Is owning one a status symbol or lifestyle experience? Do they like the big computer screen and lack of physical knobs inside the vehicle?
What makes owning one so damn appealing?

Ah I see, the Spanish Fucking Inquisition is the goal? Any clue where you’re at? This isn’t Fakebook dude. Climate change? Are you kidding me? People into that, are not going to be here man. You’re just trolling at this point, badly. People here vote the same way you do. Status symbol? I don’t buy image vehicles, image clothes, or anything else. Fake/Image/Status crap is for someone else. Couldn’t be less interested in all of the above. Strangers don’t pay my bills and IDGAF what people think, otherwise I would save sold my first EV, a year into ownership due to the Billy Bobs having such an issue with it. No big ass screen in mine. Normal double din. Physical controls for everything, HVAC, name it. And a full instrument cluster. So you just keep on being wrong, repetitively.

It saves me a lot of money. First one purchased for $19,500 all in. Acquired Feb 2014. New one this year purchased for $19,500 3k miles on the ODO. Average new car price in the USA is over fifty thousand dollars. So my purchase this year is 40% of the average new car price in America. I couldn’t get a Civic or a Corolla for $19,500 with 3k miles on it. So that makes it the cheapest new or new-ish car I can acquire for a DD with a bumper to bumper warranty. Financially, it cannot be beat for a daily driver for my needs. I don’t need to drive to Canada in it. I need it for metro driving, commuting, errands, etc. Same thing a Honda Fit would be used for, except Honda doesn’t make it anymore. Same thing a Toyota Yaris would be good at, but Toyota does not import it into the USDM anymore.

Fueling is free for me since I have solar panels on the house. And solar that I learned about right here on SF from a member, in 2013. It’s 2026 btw. And that was the original appeal 12 years ago as none of this is new. Charging at home is convenient. Don’t have to do any service but in cabin air filters every few years and a 12V battery a year earlier than my gas cars. Insurance is cheap. But the juice costing me next to zero was the biggest thing. Using the sun to power my house and my daily driver is science cool. And it’s efficient as shit. NASA sends spacecraft into space that uses solar panels to power it. If it’s good enough for NASA it’s good enough for me. When I move rural, instead of just a solar array I’ll add an inverter, small windmill, a few power walls, and a generator so the government and utilities will be out of my life. I’d rather be my own power station and be as wasteful as I want. Plan to have my own hydro pump and gasoline storage as well. 93 octane with no ethanol.

I do lot of short mileage drives for things where a gas engine wouldn’t even come up to temperature. And if I got it to, the engine would be shut right back down. And that’s awful for the longevity of an engine. The electric go kart doesn’t care about such things. Start/stop it as much as you want, short mileage, long mileage, it’s irrelevant.

You seem to think that everyone that drives an EV is into climate change and trying to perform a political agenda. That is My favorite thing to do in the world is burn gasoline for fun. 2 wheels, 4 wheels, and watercraft. What the EV does for me is save me a lot of money and gas use is leisure/pleasure, and I do quite enjoy it. Necessity driving is all done with the donkey EV. And it times like right now where gas prices are elevated, I just drive electric until per gallon costs come back down.

Oh and I like the fact that it pisses people like you off so much. Much enjoyment out of that. Watching people politicize everything including this. Elon Musk is the richest guy in the world. A Trump supporter and donor, and singlehandedly bought a social media platform to restore free speech. How did he make most of his money? Making electric vehicles. And for my needs there is literally no downsides whatsoever, only upsides. Most households I know of are multi-vehicle, not a single vehicle. Oh and before you ask, the above took me a whole 2 minutes to type. 2:13. I’ve been at this for 12 years so I’ve heard it all and then some, so pack a lunch.

I absolutely would get one if charging quickly and long range was available.

You sound so angry, Prefontaine.
So it saves you lots of money? That's what I want to here minus the diatribe.
NEXT!

quote:

Originally posted by Jupiter:

I'm still waiting to hear from those who actually own electric vehicles so they can tell us why they bought one.

Cadillac LYRIQ here. Got it September 1, 2024, just because I wanted to try it. A year and a half so far, maintenance cost has been zero. It has not required anything.

Convenient. Just plug it in once or twice a week.

Definitely NOT for everybody, but I certainly fit the profile; it has been a long time, at least five years, maybe more than ten, since I have driven more than the round-trip range of this vehicle, and it's highly unlikely that I will do so in the foreseeable future.

There are ample sources for free charging, so fuel costs could be zero. Mine is not totally free, because it's convenient for me to plug in at home, but still way cheaper than gas.

Would I do it again? Absolutely yes! But I would probably go for an EV that had some of the more advanced features, like Full Self Driving.

Thanks for that, V-Tail. Those are all valid reasons for liking EVs.

Yes, because he lives where it's mostly warm and mostly flat.

quote:

Originally posted by WaterburyBob:
Yes, because he lives where it's mostly warm and mostly flat.

You cracked me up with that one, Bob.
IF Tesla came out with a new model and called it the "Warm and Flat", they would sell like hotcakes.

I almost bought a hybrid once. Does that count? lol.

It was a RAV4. It was very neat. The mileage and whatnot was pretty good and seemed like a winner. They wouldn’t budge on the price. Only reason I didn’t get one. I got a gas powered one for (don’t remember exactly) about $4000 less. I figured that was years (probably 3 at my consumption) of driving to get that money back so I didn’t. I wish I had though because my biggest complaint about the RAV is that it is an under powered dog. The electric portion would have helped.

My sister just bought the hybrid Forester. I owned a Forester once. Good car but it needed a bigger engine as well. Her car as a hybrid felt noticeably peppier. Not race car peppy but still better.

quote:

Originally posted by WaterburyBob:

Yes, because he lives where it's mostly warm and mostly flat.

Froze my tuchas last week. It was 41°F.

Not so flat. Runway elevation at Our Little Airport is 146' above sea level.

For life in Charleston, it’s nice. Bit irritating if running around to Myrtle Beach, Savannah , etc.

For the most part, it accelerates like a Viper - actually faster - and has a similar cost per mile as a Civic.

Now, my second one has really depreciated. To the extent that I will not buy a third, but I will lease them.

In Miami Beach, electric is the only option which makes sense.

Barring exceptional circumstances, no one is driving out of Miami Metro, and only a madman would drive 200mi+ in Miami traffic.

Electric was in the garage, and charging handled by the valets/some buildings have chargers in the garage.


It was far more convenient to charge than to get gasoline/pay the significant premium for it. (Gasoline distribution there requires very expensive real estate. Electric infrastructure is there, regardless.)

But, for warm, flat, with heavy traffic, it makes a great deal of sense - so Houston, LA, Miami/probably Austin, Atlanta, Charlotte and Nashville despite being milder and more hilly.

The main downside in NO/Houston/Miami is the lack of ground clearance, but that’s an issue in all low cities, with low ceiling parking garages. (In Miami Beach, most garages are from eras when people didn’t drive pickups, unless for work, so many of the garages have a 6’/maybe 5’6” limit.

quote:

Originally posted by Jupiter:
You sound so angry, Prefontaine.
So it saves you lots of money? That's what I want to here minus the diatribe.
NEXT!

Nope. Not angry. What you want to hear is not my concern. The world doesn’t revolve around you. I don’t take anything on the internet that serious. You and the internet don’t pay my bills. It’s actually quite fun to disprove these ridiculous narratives often repeated. Watching people treat this subject like we are in court.
“You can’t handle the TRUTH!” Etc.