quote:

Originally posted by PGT:

why do you care what others drive? Unless it’s a Can-Am trike of course (those are dumb AF)

Maybe an electric version?

quote:

Originally posted by HRK:

Bigwagon, charging at commercial chargers can be expensive, up to 5 times or more the cost of charging at home.

There are quite a few public chargers that are free. FREE!

There are a couple in the parking lot in front of the Apopka Public Works Department.

Couple more in front of Whole Foods on 436.

I get free charging at any GM dealer.

That’s interesting. I wonder how they justify free electricity? That would be an interesting line item in the budget. Are those chargers available most of the time or are they swamped with users?

I love the alligator trail in Apopka. Cool little drive. I have always wanted to bike it. It seems a little too “alligatory” for that though. lol.

Rereading that I think I read it wrong. Are the free chargers on the public dime (county) or private business trying to drum up traffic dime? That may not be a bad idea to get walking traffic through your store while they charge.

Most of the free chargers I see are Level 2, so slower, but free is free.

quote:

Originally posted by bigwagon:
For those of you with EVs, when you are not charging at home, how much are you paying for electricity at commercial charging stations? From what I have seen, Level 3 chargers aren't cheap.

This was a charge from 15-100% on my brother's E-Tron in January when we drove from his house to Sedona AZ. We routed to the Tesla chargers there since I have an account set up but those were old "urban chargers" not open to non-Tesla's. Luckily, there was a brand new Rivian station 15 feet away so we plugged in there and walked over to get empanadas y cerveza for lunch. Notably, the Rivian was a new "pay at the charger" type which Tesla still doesn't have but is rolling out. Touch to pay with your card, no account needed.

We actually were charged idle time as the vehicle charged before we got through our lunch and walked back over...zero inconvenience for charging and plugged it back in once home in his garage.

quote:

Originally posted by bigwagon:
I did some quick math once and was surprised to find that it could easily rival the cost of gas on cents-per-mile basis. This seems like a real consideration for EV owners who don't have access to cheap charging at home or work.

My experience with Tesla Superchargers and paying for charging is that it's roughly about half the cost at peak time than the equivalent cost of gas for the same drive. Obviously charging at home or off-peak is cheaper still (the Tesla app gives you a great ROI tool to view)

This first pic is my daughter's Model 3 Dual Motor while away at college over the last month (save being home last week for spring break). Roughly break-even with gas (but of course lower/no maintenance costs);



The second pic is my Model X over the same period (mostly local driving with one trip back/forth when my wife borrowed it to go to see our daughter at school....900mi round trip and all Supercharging). I think the $38 shown is the estimated cost for charging at home based on entering our power provider and their rate schedules (they don't discount much if at all for off-peak).

quote:

We actually were charged idle time

Is the idle time actually charged at $.05/second, or is there some bracketing going on for this?
By my math that would work out to $3/min, or $180 and hour.

I guess that would keep people on top of unplugging their car!

good question. My first/only experience with a Rivian charger. I've been assessed idle fees by Tesla but usually no more than a dollar or two max.

quote:

Originally posted by sourdough44:
One may say WTF are you talking about? I’m talking about mathematics of is that EV saving you any $$? One could do the same comparing a $45k(or less) Civic to the $70k(or more) Tesla.

This is all this was ever about for me, money. Hard cash. My first EV, all in the cost for it, $19.5k. I drove it for 12 years as a daily driver. Maintenance was almost nil. Charging was either free or next to free. I did a solar lease in 2014, that I learned about from a member here, who posted detailed information about the process, in 2013. It had a 84 mile range when new, and 70 when I just sold it. It literally was the cheapest car for me to ever own, per mile. You want to get real with math, you figure out your per mile cost. That’s cost of the vehicle, insurance, fuel, maintenance, annual registration, everything. I have gas vehicles. Those were bought with 15, or 20 year ownership plans because I daily a cheap ass electric toaster that enables that. My first EV had the EV logos on it, zero emissions, and such. The minute I got it I took dental floss and removed all those logos, debadged it. I’m not saving the world, or making political statements. It’s about the money. I’m a gearhead. And trust me I don’t want to daily drive a lil hatchback EV toaster vehicle but I can’t beat the math. It’s all about the mathematics. A bunch of accountants drive this lil stupid car because it’s the cheapest per mile vehicle on the road provided you let someone eat the depreciation and get an almost new used one.

I hear a lot about lower maintenance costs. Other than oil changes, which can easily range from $50-150 every 5K miles or so, what other regular maintenance is saved, assuming two equally reliable cars under factory warranty for the first several years? Tires, wiper blades, cabin filters would all be about the same. Brakes? I guess some EVs probably get longer brake life due to regenerative braking, at least in theory. What else? I find it hard to believe that EVs never have many of the same issues as ICE cars once they get older, ie, HVAC, suspension, wheel bearings, etc.

quote:

Originally posted by pedropcola:

That’s interesting. I wonder how they justify free electricity? That would be an interesting line item in the budget. Are those chargers available most of the time or are they swamped with users?.

The free chargers that I have used:

• Apopka Public Works parking lot -- I don't know for sure, but they might have solar panels on the roof.
  
  
• Whole Foods in Altamonte Springs -- A convenience for customers? Not sure why they do it, but I am aware of quite a few businesses, hotels, etc. that offer free charging.
  
  
• GM dealers -- they sell and service EVs, so they have to have chargers on site. Offering free lifetime charging as part of sales incentives doesn't hurt their bottom line. The dealer where I leased my EV has two DC fast chargers around back, in the service area, and a Level 2 charger in the customer parking lot right at a showroom entrance. I have always found at least one available, whenever I've been at the dealer.

quote:

Originally posted by bigwagon:
I hear a lot about lower maintenance costs. Other than oil changes, which can easily range from $50-150 every 5K miles or so, what other regular maintenance is saved, assuming two equally reliable cars under factory warranty for the first several years? Tires, wiper blades, cabin filters would all be about the same. Brakes? I guess some EVs probably get longer brake life due to regenerative braking, at least in theory. What else? I find it hard to believe that EVs never have many of the same issues as ICE cars once they get older, ie, HVAC, suspension, wheel bearings, etc.

EV’s at least the ones I’ve owned, have fewer moving parts than ICE, much less moving parts. The transmission is one speed. I mean compared to ICE they are remarkable simple vehicles. The fancy EV’s I have no experience with. In 12 years of my last one, there were no reliability failures whatsoever. I flushed the brake fluid out for fresh fluid mid way though that ownership. I had the HVAC system go down on me but it turned out I just owned the car so long the refrigerant was depleted and needed a refill. No leaks. Sold it with the original brake pads and rotors because I used regenerative braking. One warranty claim. And that was cosmetic. The black plastic trim around the windows had faded and I got my Nissan service manager to warranty claim it before my extended warranty ran out. The lack of maintenance was great as it almost never saw a dealer and no gas pumps. After the first 2 years I never used anything but home charging or would charge at a friends house while I was there if I needed some juice to get back home. Your main cost benefit is kwh at home are much cheaper than gasoline. Where you live determines that ratio.

The longest I’ve personally ever owned a car is 12 and 14 years then a bunch at the 8-10 year mark. Fords, Toyotas, Honda, Subaru, and one Chrysler. Maybe I’ve been lucky but I’ve never had a transmission fail. Even the dreaded CVT lol.

First Ford was a shitty car but it was a shitty car from day one. So bad I actually got a new one because the lemon law was triggered.

So when people talk about these massive maintenance bills I honestly wonder if they are driving old beaters or just bad luck.

Long way to say I don’t put a lot of stock in maintenance bills because I’ve never had any to speak of. Overrated argument to me. That has just been my experience in 40 years of buying cars. Others obviously have had different experiences.

Maybe I just soloed under a lucky star Mav. lol

The EV’s not dead and it’s never going to be dead. The cancelling of the tax credit in America obviously crushed the EV market in the U.S. but in most of the world it’s massively gaining market share.

Start at about 1:35 or so.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7ThBvLBMacw

But does the rest of the world own cars on anything like the scale we do in the US? Just in terms of distance most of the world will never drive the amount and distance that the average American does. It’s not even apples to oranges. If I lived in Denmark I would probably embrace the EV as the perfect solution. In Florida with kids six and a half hours away, not so much. The rest of the world has also embraced trains on a massive scale. Here? I took the Brightline to Orlando recently. Clean, quick, and they lose money every year.

It isn’t a safe bet trying to import many of the world’s ideas here in the states. They don’t or won’t work. EV usage worldwide means next to nothing here.

quote:

Originally posted by pedropcola:
Overrated argument to me.

You are the one arguing. People are giving you the experience they’ve had, and you argue with it, incessantly.

Kind of like you did when you got warned by the boss. A Tesla owner talks about not having fuel costs and you balk at that, and get insulting towards a member(s). You are failing to understand any context whatsoever. That man’s Tesla, if you factor in the performance, luxury, options, technology, for a gas alternative to all of the previously mentioned, it’s going to be the same cost or more expensive, but with much higher running costs, IE gasoline, AND maintenance. His Tesla is a high performance vehicle and the equivalent gas car with similar performance is going to cost the same or more, and higher fuel and maintenance costs. With everything there is context. Very little maintenance is in context with very low fuel cost compared to gasoline. And you insulted him again by calling him “rich”, which is ironically rich. Rich is someone who can own multiple homes in multiple countries. Yacht owners. Private Jet owners. Not someone who buys a vehicle that is 20-25% higher than the average new vehicle cost in America.

You attempt to pinpoint a singularity, attack it, argue it, except you are the only one arguing. It’s pretty simple, don’t like them, don’t buy them. Nobody is making you. Any kind of potential mandate is gone. All it was, was potential, not set in stone. Federal tax rebate, gone. Yet every day you want to continue to argue. There is no argument, don’t buy one. Right now this is on the books for next year yet nobody talking about it.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/art...92.html?guccounter=2

quote:

Originally posted by pedropcola:
It isn’t a safe bet trying to import many of the world’s ideas here in the states. They don’t or won’t work. EV usage worldwide means next to nothing here.

His point is most manufacturers build vehicles to sell in many countries. X or Y car or CUV is a world model. Sold in many countries. So yes, what is sold around the world directly affects what is sold here.

You said this prior:
“ I will move on to merrier subjects however that irk me less. I apologize for my tone to anyone offended.” Yet every day since you are back, complaining and arguing. It’s actually very simple. You aren’t required to buy an EV. So don’t buy one.

For those that own electric vehicles, what was your reason for buying one?

quote:

Originally posted by pedropcola:

I took the Brightline to Orlando recently.

From where?

I drove my “rich” friend back in May from VA to Greenwich CT to pick up this limited release special Audi RS6 Avant GT that he paid a quarter million for.

My Model X has adjustable suspension like his. My Model X has more horsepower and more torque but he’s slightly faster due to being lighter weight but it’s darned close. He can’t keep up until near triple digits (allegedly) but then walks away from me.

Not bad for 1/3 of the cost and lower TCO post-sale. They’re similarly sized inside and have similar utility.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: PGT,

quote:

For those that own electric vehicles, what was your reason for buying one?

Don't have one yet, but wired home for charger if needed. Anticipate having one as second car in retirement, along with a midsize SUV.
After following this some, I guess I'm just going to have to get one to piss some people off!

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Audi RS6 Avant GT

Now, THAT'S a car!

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Originally posted by Georgeair:
After following this some, I guess I'm just going to have to get one to piss some people off!

Maybe the best reason for owning one I've seen so far.