quote:

Originally posted by jmorris:

quote:

Originally posted by bigwagon:
No matter how much they're using now, they will need more in the future to power all these new EVs.

Reminds me of people talking about what happens when we run out of oil.

Unlike oil, which is theoretically a finite resource, we should never run out of sunlight, wind, hydro-electric and atoms to split to produce power. Actually building the infrastructure to do it efficiently and getting enough of it where it needs to be, when it needs to be there is the trick.

quote:

Originally posted by bigwagon:
No matter how much they're using now, they will need more in the future to power all these new EVs. DO you think they are doing it cleanly? I don't.

I do

Solar panels have reached commodity level of cost. I've been trying to get "off-grid" since I was a teen. Geo-thermal was my plan however the cost of Solar is now so cheap that it's basically making everything else pointless.

"But the sun doesn't shine at night!" Current battery tech is good enough to cover that, and with solid state batteries slowly entering actual production it's a wrap.

What planet are you living on? Southeast Asia is not powering its electrical grid with solar.

quote:

Originally posted by bigwagon:
What planet are you living on? Southeast Asia is not powering its electrical grid with solar.

Are

https://www.vietnam-briefing.c...-for-investors.html/

You

https://www.sciencedirect.com/...ii/S0960148123018165

Absolutely

https://www.mida.gov.my/mida-n...idential-properties/

Sure?

https://www.ema.gov.sg/our-ene.../energy-supply/solar

Did you actually read your links? Doubtful. I only read the first two and then skipped the next because I’m pretty sure it was more of the same.

The first link is marketing portrayed as science trying to generate venture capital. Go read it. The second literally says they aren’t meeting goals due to “high cost and low electrical rates”. Not exactly the point you seem to be making.

Here’s one of the quotes “However, it is still below the target due to high investment costs and low electricity prices” before going on to say that if they subsidize the costs (govt) they believe the utilization will increase. Well, no shit. If the govt pays the bill people will buy free stuff. Earth shattering.

Real progress can pay its own way.

Yes Fender, I am sure. They are highly reliant on coal and natural gas for power generation, just like most third world economies (and everybody else for that matter).

quote:

Originally posted by pedropcola:
Did you actually read your links? Doubtful. I only read the first two and then skipped the next because I’m pretty sure it was more of the same.

The first link is marketing portrayed as science trying to generate venture capital. Go read it. The second literally says they aren’t meeting goals due to “high cost and low electrical rates”. Not exactly the point you seem to be making.

Here’s one of the quotes “However, it is still below the target due to high investment costs and low electricity prices” before going on to say that if they subsidize the costs (govt) they believe the utilization will increase. Well, no shit. If the govt pays the bill people will buy free stuff. Earth shattering.

Real progress can pay its own way.

You are the single worst person I've ever encountered at predicting 2nd order effects.



https://globalenergymonitor.or...Top_SE-Asia-2024.pdf

You like to link stuff but you don’t really read it do you? Yes solar and wind use throughout the world is increasing. Care to actually engage and wager why that is? Is it because wind power is the future? Is it because a lot of money has been chasing solar? Hmm.

Instead of posting links. Read for understanding and then come back and give us a synopsis of how what I posted was incorrect on any level.

Did you really think you were going off grid with geo thermal? I would have loved to hear those plans. lol

Not for nothing I do actually love that chart you just posted. Literally 3 columns. Wind. Solar. And the third column is, wait for it, wind and solar added together. lol. What high school class compiled that data and made that chart?

Notice the chart doesn't indicate what percentage of power demand is being met by those sources?

Bigwagon, that “chart” is retarded. They literally made a third column to look more chart like where they add column 1 to column 2 to produce column 3.

I challenge you to actually go read the links. Clearly it was a quick google search to “support” a position without actually reading through the material.

quote:

Originally posted by bigwagon:

quote:

Originally posted by jmorris:

quote:

Originally posted by bigwagon:
No matter how much they're using now, they will need more in the future to power all these new EVs.

Reminds me of people talking about what happens when we run out of oil.

Unlike oil, which is theoretically a finite resource, we should never run out of sunlight, wind, hydro-electric and atoms to split to produce power. Actually building the infrastructure to do it efficiently and getting enough of it where it needs to be, when it needs to be there is the trick.

Didn't they recently figure out that oil may actually be a renewable resource?

I have read that. No idea if it’s true though. Which is why nobody talks about ”peak oil” anymore. It was garbage science then it’s garbage science now.

quote:

Originally posted by bigwagon:
Notice the chart doesn't indicate what percentage of power demand is being met by those sources?

Vietnam get 9% of its electricity from solar and 4% from wind while 50% comes from coal and 26% comes from hydropower.

Link

If you zoom in on the world chart on your link it is interesting data. Vietnamese people average 14,000 kWh per year. The world average is 20,000. The developed western nations including the US that number jumps to 100,000 kWh/year. The chart doesn’t really say the high end, it just shows us above 100k.

If my house used that level of electricity per year I probably could get by with solar panels on my house. No EV charging though. lol

Energy needs in under developed nations should be easier to meet. Even there though it sounds like it’s at 14% total.

In the US, a typical EV car uses about 4500kwH per year based on average miles driven. Let's say it's half that in a country like Vietnam. That would still represent about a 15 percent increase in annual electric usage, which is not an insignificant number when multiplied across the entire economy. It also needs to compete against other electrical usage demands from industry and economic development.

Coal be cheap. That absent subsidization is always the biggest driver in countries not ruled by blue hair libs.

Remember, energy source development in the US has been highly restricted, EPA, CAEPA, Environmental groups and lawyers, courts all conspired to try and change the power grid to renewables and have set energy back in the USA decades.

In these countries if they need more power the government will grant the approval, fund it, and perhaps build it. There is no EPA for them to follow like in the USA.

If Vietnam needs 15% more power for EV's they'll build it.

Their red tape is ceremonial.

I'm a Californian. I have lived in this state, specifically the SF Bay Area, my entire life.

We are literally the epicenter of EV usage in the US, by far.

Here is actual data: https://afdc.energy.gov/data

Our petroleum prices are literally the highest in the entire country. Diesel down the street from me is over $7 per gallon right now with Regular 87 at around $6.

There are solar panels everywhere around here. Every public school has solar panels as do most public buildings. You cannot throw a rock these days and not hit a solar panel. The sun is free right?

Damn near every parking lot, every grocery store, has charging stations. There are far more charging stations than gas pumps in this state (https://www.gov.ca.gov/2025/03/20/california-now-has-48-more-ev-chargers-than-gasoline-nozzles-in-the-state/)

So everyone in California must be driving an EV right?

Hardly

EV only represents 3.4% of vehicles registered in this state and new purchases of them have dropped off a cliff. If you are EV inclined, you likely already bought one.

Government agencies have been mandated to buy them in this state. The city I work for bought a bunch of Ford Focus EV's in 2017. Most are now dead, with the others dying. The cost of a new battery is around $10k. So essentially these cars had high entry cost, minimal utility due to lack of range/run time, and now are a total loss.

The truth is EV costs more to buy, more to insure, more to fix, has limited range, and has an extremely finite lifespan. In other words, no matter how much you like them, or the concept of them, right now they are not practical. They're a toy.

If you own a home, have solar, a battery system like a Tesla Powerwall, and have a charger, and you also have another vehicle, I can see how you can make it work for you. Likely if you fit in that category you have financial stability and some disposable income. This seems to be who buys the most EV's around here.

For your medium-to-low income folks living in apartments they make ZERO sense. You have to the have the time and/or a safe place for it to charge. They tend to have neither.

...and let's be real about solar and wind.

You could literally cover the entire state of California in solar panels and it would only scratch the surface of how much power this state requires currently (with only 3.6% of our vehicles being EV). The majority of our energy production in California is natural gas right now and we still cannot supply adequate power during peak usage in the summer and our consumer energy costs are absurd (my 1300 sq ft house had a $550 energy bill last month...and I don't charge an EV).

If California increased EV from 3.4% to just 15% could our energy production/grid handle it? No way.

So while I don't think EV is dead, I don't think they currently make any sense for most people.

My state's Dept of Transportation is asking the legislature to end the requirement for all buses to be electric because it's costing too much to run them compared to diesel. Especially during the third of the year where the temperature is below freezing and battery performance drops off.