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So the takeaway from this extremely limited data is while 58% of the people hospitalized were fully vaccinated, 75% of the deaths were fully vaccinated. In this incredibly small sample, people without the vaccine fare better than those who are vaccinated.

This may have to do with antibody dependent enhancement, or ADE. I don't know a lot about this but I think it deserves consideration.

I'd like to see the breakdown of the vaccinated people who have died or been hospitalized from COVID. In the unvaccinated population it's been shown to be mostly old people with comorbidities. Is it still the same groups of people dying? If so it would make sense to me the people who have are more likely to die unvaccinated are also more likely to die vaccinated.

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Originally posted by chellim1:

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So the takeaway from this extremely limited data is while 58% of the people hospitalized were fully vaccinated, 75% of the deaths were fully vaccinated. In this incredibly small sample, people without the vaccine fare better than those who are vaccinated.

This may have to do with antibody dependent enhancement, or ADE. I don't know a lot about this but I think it deserves consideration.

I first read about ADE with mRNA vaccines over a year ago. I haven't seen anything new about it since then - I wonder why ...

The OP's article isn't worth debating as it's purely lopsided non-sense to this life science executive. Data not testimonials wins the day but Commies can't argue on the grounds of the former. Nope, the advertisement (which is what the article represents) is all about pushing their agenda.

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Originally posted by Skins2881: In the unvaccinated population it's been shown to be mostly old people with comorbidities. Is it still the same groups of people dying? If so it would make sense to me the people who have are more likely to die unvaccinated are also more likely to die vaccinated.

I'd agree. Since the vaccinated population skews older, it would make sense that more would be dying. Especially since they would be less likely to develop a robust immune response to the vaccine.

This hold thing revolves around people having low levels of vitamin D3. I take 5000 IU/day but barely make the lower limit when I have my blood tested.

We know that people with darker skin make less D3 through the skin compared to whitey. Also the skin converts less D3 in people over 60.

Cancer cases increase as you get further from the equator. The people living in Alaska are at high risk and need to take D3.

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Originally posted by snwghst:

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Originally posted by Ripley:
I mentioned Novavax and no responses so far.
I would consider it ahead of the mRNA offerings but no hope of the powers that be moving ahead with it any time soon. Anyone anywhere looking to get Novavax to market?

if they partnered with a big Pharma I think we'd be seeing something available. Since they didn't, I think they got lost in the mix.

Novavax is late to the party and I'm guessing there will be no push to fast track its acceptance because of all the big pharma power behind what is out there now. That plus Novavax is not mRNA and, if more effective, too much to lose for the big boys to allow.

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Originally posted by 41:
This hold thing revolves around people having low levels of vitamin D3.

That's nonsense. It's a virus. Vitamin sufficiency may improve one's response to a viral invader, but will not make one immune to it.

Believe what you want but I have been studying health issues since 1980 and haven't had the flu since 1993 when I gave my last bottle of Sambucol to a coworker.

https://www.lifeextension.com/magazine/2020/6

https://www.lifeextension.com/magazine/2020/7

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Originally posted by Ripley:

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Originally posted by snwghst:

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Originally posted by Ripley:
I mentioned Novavax and no responses so far.
I would consider it ahead of the mRNA offerings but no hope of the powers that be moving ahead with it any time soon. Anyone anywhere looking to get Novavax to market?

if they partnered with a big Pharma I think we'd be seeing something available. Since they didn't, I think they got lost in the mix.

Novavax is late to the party and I'm guessing there will be no push to fast track its acceptance because of all the big pharma power behind what is out there now. That plus Novavax is not mRNA and, if more effective, too much to lose for the big boys to allow.

The Novavax vaccine is the only one I'd ever even CONSIDER taking if I was literally forced into it due to the fact that it uses the time honored process of using deactivated viral protiens. It's already been hinted that the Novavax vaccine would not likely be available in the US for months, if ever. Because of big pharma's investment in the new, shiny, and expensive money makers. It's a huge scam.

I had kinda hoped that this thread would be more factual and less political than the other.

It appears that isn’t going to happen. Maybe that is because the whole COVID-19 pandemic and response seems to be highly political and whatever “facts” one is able to find seem to be highly slanted in one direction or another.

At one point, someone had a quote in their signature along the lines of (I’m sure I’ll butcher it from memory, but it was something like) “I prefer reality when I can find it.” At this point I have almost given up any hope of finding objective reality about this pandemic and am inclined to run with what seems to be believable. Sigh…

The one thing that drives me crazy is how political this has become. How is anyone supposed to make a rational, informed decision when it's impossible to understand the efficacy of the vaccine and its risks? Seems like someone in a position of authority would want to compile and present clear information after all this time but anyone who tries is tarred and feathered by one side or the other. So no one knows what to believe and vaccination is now just another religion like global warming and men becoming women.

We can debate how bad the Covid virus is, but we are all lucky it's not really dangerous like an easily transmissible aerosolized ebola virus because we'd all be dead given the way our government and media handles things. This whole pandemic response has been a severe clusterf*ck, and I am so dang tired of the whole shit show.

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Originally posted by gearhounds:
It's a huge scam.

And maybe the biggest scam is keeping HCQ, Ivermectin and Remdesivir from being readily available. I tried talking with my PCP the other day, thought I made solid points but she got her back up and said she agreed with nothing I'd said. From the top down it appears there is an effort to avoid discussing the WuFlu and variants honestly.

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Originally posted by slosig:
I had kinda hoped that this thread would be more factual and less political than the other.

It appears that isn’t going to happen. Maybe that is because the whole COVID-19 pandemic and response seems to be highly political and whatever “facts” one is able to find seem to be highly slanted in one direction or another.

At one point, someone had a quote in their signature along the lines of (I’m sure I’ll butcher it from memory, but it was something like) “I prefer reality when I can find it.” At this point I have almost given up any hope of finding objective reality about this pandemic and am inclined to run with what seems to be believable. Sigh…

I'm with you. As far as I'm concerned, there is no accurate data to be found at this point in time, so I'll just ignore both sides.

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Originally posted by ChicagoSigMan:
crazy is how political this has become.

The single truth through all this is- Everyone is using it to promote their own agenda. The facts never seem to come into play.

After all this time there should be some indisputable facts.

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Originally posted by slosig:
I had kinda hoped that this thread would be more factual and less political than the other.

It appears that isn’t going to happen. Maybe that is because the whole COVID-19 pandemic and response seems to be highly political and whatever “facts” one is able to find seem to be highly slanted in one direction or another.

At one point, someone had a quote in their signature along the lines of (I’m sure I’ll butcher it from memory, but it was something like) “I prefer reality when I can find it.” At this point I have almost given up any hope of finding objective reality about this pandemic and am inclined to run with what seems to be believable. Sigh…

I think that's going to be impossible. Real, accurate data is hard to come by to begin with because data capture methodology is awful. On top of that, whatever data does come out is BURIED under layers of politics and spin if it isn't discounted or outright censored due to agenda.

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Originally posted by MNSIG:

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Originally posted by bigdeal:And yet the message I'm trying to get across is apparently falling on deaf ears.

Let me be painfully clear, I personally don't give a damn if you get a dozen doses of the vaccine of your choice, and wear three or more masks every day.

For someone who "doesn't give a damn" to put so much time and effort into "getting your message across" seems a bit incongruous.

Hey, I'm just a helpful kinda guy.

Just take it easy, please.

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A traditional vaccine triggers an immune response. mRNA "vaccines" are genetic engineering.

If I could offer some input on this... The mRNA vaccines also trigger the immune response, just in a different way. Spike protein-coded mRNA is vectored to the cell cytoplasm, where it is used as a template for manufacturing said protein. The presence of those proteins then triggers antibody production. The foreign mRNA is subsequently metabolized the same way any indigenous RNA would be.

The process can't really be said to be genetic engineering, as the foreign RNA is never inserted into the host genes. In fact, it never even enters the cell nucleus where all the DNA is stored. It stays in the cytoplasm where it is used, then eaten up.

You could say the RNA is initially manufactured using genetic engineering, but nothing like that happens inside the host cells.

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Originally posted by braillediver:
After all this time there should be some indisputable facts.

There are. We're just not allowed to know them or discuss them with others.

This is the only virus during my 50+ years on the planet where those in charge have zero interest in any treatment options...beyond the vaccines, and where we are actively discouraged from discussing and/or exploring anything not approved by those in charge. And they wonder why huge portions of the population refuse to play along with them and their vaccine mandates.