For those interested in information about the vaccines published by the journal Science.

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The overlooked superpower of mRNA vaccines

By Meredith Wadman, Jul. 28, 2021 , 10:45 AM

Individuals facing the threat of COVID-19 may care most about a vaccine’s ability to forestall grave disease that could lead to a hospital bed or worse. And a number of vaccines perform that vital task well, including those from Johnson & Johnson and AstraZeneca, which are based on genetically engineered cold viruses, as well as the not-yet-authorized protein vaccine from Novavax. But for public health experts trying to halt a global pandemic, shutting down even the mildest infections is also crucial, especially as the highly infectious Delta variant surges in scores of countries. By that measure, according to a brace of new studies, the messenger RNA (mRNA) vaccines from the Pfizer-BioNTech collaboration and Moderna stand out.

“All COVID-19 vaccines are not created equal,” says Eric Topol, a physician-scientist at the Scripps Research Translational Institute. “It’s clear that the two mRNA vaccines are highly effective at preventing infection—and that others wouldn’t be expected to break the chain as well.”

The large clinical trials that persuaded governments around the world to authorize COVID-19 vaccines mostly looked at their ability to block symptomatic disease and illness severe enough to lead to hospitalization or death. Preventing all infections, including those with no symptoms at all, is “rather a neglected endpoint,” says Adeel Butt, an epidemiologist and infectious disease specialist at the Veterans Affairs Pittsburgh Healthcare System. Yet, “It’s very, very important … to break the transmission of infection,” says Butt, who also works at Weill Cornell Medicine, Qatar.

Last week, Butt and his colleagues published some of the strongest evidence showing the mRNA vaccines can do just that. The researchers compared more than 54,000 veterans who sought SARS-CoV-2 testing and tested positive with an equal number who tested negative, matching each positive and negative case by age, sex, and comorbidities. Using the vaccination status of each participant, they calculated that the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines were, respectively, 96% and 98% effective in preventing SARS-CoV-2 infection, the researchers reported in the Annals of Internal Medicine.

Another study, from Qatar and published in Nature Medicine this month, used a similar approach to show that two Moderna shots were 92.5% effective in preventing asymptomatic infection with any variant circulating at the time. The jabs were also 100% effective against any infection with the Alpha variant, and 96.4% effective against infection with the Beta variant.

A U.S. study used a different design, testing nearly 4000 front-line workers weekly, regardless of whether they had symptoms. Full vaccination with either Pfizer or Moderna vaccines was 90% effective against any infection, researchers reported in the Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report. And in a study of more than 23,000 U.K. health care workers tested every 2 weeks, most of whom were vaccinated with the Pfizer jab, vaccination was 85% effective against infection.

These studies were conducted before the spread of the Delta variant, for which real-world data on asymptomatic infection are still lacking. But lab studies are promising, suggesting mRNA vaccines may inhibit asymptomatic Delta infection, too. Last week, separate groups at New York University and Yale University posted preprints analyzing blood serum from people vaccinated with the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines. Antibodies generated by those vaccines lost little of their potency against the Delta variant.

And Topol notes that a large real-world study from the United Kingdom, published last week in The New England Journal of Medicine, found that the Pfizer vaccine outperformed the Astra Zeneca vaccine at preventing symptomatic infection by the Delta variant that has taken over in that country by 21 points, 88% to 67%.

That substantial margin “likely translates to better suppression of transmission, unlike the similarities for the vaccines in reducing hospitalizations and deaths,” Topol says.

Many scientists suspect the mRNA vaccines outperform others at preventing infection because of the high levels of virus-blocking antibodies, called neutralizing antibodies (nAbs), that they generate. A striking graph published in Nature Medicine in May showed a tight correlation between the levels of nAbs generated by each of seven major vaccines and their ability to protect against disease in clinical trials. The mRNA vaccines and the two-dose shot by Novavax topped the chart for both levels of nAbs and protectiveness. “Emerging evidence suggests that antibodies are particularly important for blocking infection and preventing onward transmission of the virus,” says immunologist Eleanor Riley of the University of Edinburgh.

“The mRNA vaccines are arming the immune system in a way that seems to be better and at higher magnitude than some of the other approaches,” although no one is sure why, adds Larry Corey, a vaccinologist at the Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center. Some say the mRNA vaccines’ performance suggests they should be distributed widely in poorer countries, which so far have mainly relied on AstraZeneca and Russian and Chinese vaccines. “There is something special here,” with mRNA vaccines, Corey says. “Let’s embrace that and think about turning it into public policy.” He urges policymakers to get these “most potent vaccines … to low- and middle-income countries.”

But Angela Rasmussen, a virologist at the Vaccine and Infectious Disease Organization at the University of Saskatchewan, doesn’t think the poorer parts of the world can count on mRNA vaccines, noting that Pfizer and Moderna apparently prefer to sell to countries that can pay.

Other authorized vaccines are also highly effective against severe disease and death, Rasmussen stresses. “An adenovirus vaccine that works very well is still much better than an mRNA vaccine you will never get access to.”

LINK

Why a new thread?

Because based on what I have seen in the other thread it is no longer about vaccines but rather policies. And there is a significant difference. If anyone is interested in discussion about the vaccines themselves, I believe it would be a chore to find there. For a very long time I didn't even open that thread, but made a quick check before posting this and got the impression I've held for a long time.

But I realize of course that it's ultimately your decision whether a new thread is warranted.

OK, go ahead

quote:

But for public health experts trying to halt a global pandemic, shutting down even the mildest infections is also crucial, especially as the highly infectious Delta variant surges in scores of countries. By that measure, according to a brace of new studies, the messenger RNA (mRNA) vaccines from the Pfizer-BioNTech collaboration and Moderna stand out.

Israel has the highest vaccination rate in the world, using the Pfizer-BioNTech exclusively.
Yet, the Delta variant surges in Israel.

Also...
California Counties See COVID Cases Rising In Most Heavily Vaccinated Counties

https://www.zerohedge.com/covi...-vaccinated-counties

“The mRNA vaccines are arming the immune system in a way that seems to be better and at higher magnitude”.

“Seems”. Whether or not it IS ACTUALLY better is too early in the game.

Whether the vaccines are effective or not, one thing is becoming glaringly clear. And that is that most people, particularly our authoritarian leaders, apparently no longer have much confidence in them, at least in their ability to keep people from getting sick or spreading the virus.

So let's see, hmmm....

Vaccinated facts:
-can still get covid
-can still die of covid
-can still die of vax

Unvaccinated facts:
-can still get covid
-can still die of covid
-cannot die of vax

Yes, indeed. I think prudence will be my guide here, and prudence does not in any way point towards me or any other relatively young, healthy person getting this vaccine at this time.

I really wish they would stop calling the various shots a “vaccine”. They fail to do what a vaccine does by definition. They do not 1) provide immunity and 2) do not interrupt transmission.

I have had the chinese cooties, why do I need the vaccine?

quote:

“The mRNA vaccines are arming the immune system in a way that seems to be better and at higher magnitude than some of the other approaches,” although no one is sure why,

SF - I appreciate the start of a discourse on types and related efficacies. I would like to understand these aspects more.

I have concerns w/ the vaccines and comments like the above. "...not sure why." And have largely concerns with adverse impacts that are unknown and/or intentionally being obfuscated as misinformation or even removed from discourse. This makes a comprehensive discussion of efficacy and risks impossible.

Along the way, I've lost faith in the scientific method of our scientific and academic community. Controlled studies, inferences from statistics, bias - all have been corrupted on this topic.

And there is still an alarming absence of information related to other options like ivermectin and its efficacies and risks, both as a prophylactic and as reactive treatment protocols.

I am highly interest in real information on options, efficacies and risks. I just don't see that forthcoming w/ the information and data being tightly controlled.

One of the bigger issues with mRNA is the shelf life. Everyone has heard about the COVID vaccines and the temp requirements. Useful vaccine has short usable times once removed from deep freeze.

But lyophilization helps. While expensive, it substantially increases usable shelf life.

Now Pfizer and Moderna are looking at a lyophilized versions but that would take new drug listing.

Cancer immunotherapy also uses mRNA lyophilization.

I have worked 20 years in this field with tier one pharma companies and now also with them on mRNA stabile delivery methods.

Getting these vaccines/therapies to longer, stabile deliveries is crucial to getting them everywhere around the globe.

Let’s keep the discussion about vaccines and stop dropping troll turds. Save them for that other thread.

So... If I read the article correctly, its now claimed the COVID vaccines prevent all manner of infection.
For how long? Days? Months? Years? The rest of your life?
Say I cut my finger. No need for antibiotics if I have received the COVID shot?

Well if the Delta Chinese virus is indeed more virulent.
I am glad I got the Modera vac. As due to my personal morbidities
It seems like I made a good choice according to the article.

quote:

The overlooked superpower of mRNA vaccines

Has the "superpower" of mRNA vaccines really been overlooked?
I guess the media and the government don't tout them enough? Perhaps no one has heard you should get one?

Or is it the down-side of these experimental drugs that has been overlooked? Perhaps not only overlooked but silenced, erased, covered-up, cancelled, de-platformed and otherwise censored?

But we should just trust them?

I appreciate honest debate. I'm willing to listen and learn both sides of an issue. But to say the benefits of [COVID-19] mRNA vaccines has been "overlooked" smacks of propaganda.

quote:

Originally posted by gearhounds:
I really wish they would stop calling the various shots a “vaccine”. They fail to do what a vaccine does by definition. They do not 1) provide immunity and 2) do not interrupt transmission.

Where in that definition does it state or imply that either criteria needs to be met in 100% of those receiving it? I don't believe there is a vaccine (for any disease)out there that achieves that level of protection.

I honestly don't believe for a second that our government "leaders" were actually given this vaccine. They were given saline solution in a photo-op if you ask me.

Thanks for a second thread on this.

Some very basic questions. The asymptomatic vaccinated can be infected and still infect others, right? If one is taking HCQ as a prophylactic, the virus does not gain a toehold and that person would not transmit a virus they don't have?

The traditionally created Novavax looks on paper to be the best choice but you have to know the powers that be are in no hurry to fast-track its use what with the existing vac's already established. I heard in passing the other day something like 10-15 new billionaires have been created for big pharmers.

And what does this mean at the end of the posted article, just gratuitous posturing? --

“An adenovirus vaccine that works very well is still much better than an mRNA vaccine you will never get access to.”

A youtube video by Dr John Campbell

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNbs4LCgrcY

indicates that the reason England's protection rate can be twice is good as Israel's protection rate for the same vaccine is the elapsed period between the two doses. Israel's implementation averaged something under three weeks in between shots, while England's averaged something over ten weeks.

It sounds like England's improved results was completely accidental.

Warning: the good doctor's signal to noise ratio is depressing. He finally states his case in plain English at just over the nine-minute mark.

quote:

Originally posted by Ripley:
And what does this mean at the end of the posted article, just gratuitous posturing? --

“An adenovirus vaccine that works very well is still much better than an mRNA vaccine you will never get access to.”

Probably referring to 3rd world countries that will not have the supply/storage chain for mRNA