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Frangas non Flectes |
It would make for a quick and easy differentiator, that's for sure.  ______________________________________________ “There are plenty of good reasons for fighting, but no good reason ever to hate without reservation, to imagine that God Almighty Himself hates with you, too.” | |||
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Tinker Sailor Soldier Pie |
On a serious note, there have been noted side effects particularly in young women who have gotten these mRNA vaccines in regards to blood clotting and even issues with their menstruation. Now, for women who are thinking of having children, this should cause considerable concern or at least consideration when discussing getting the shot. Perhaps there is actually a factual and reasonable explanation for this side effect, but the problem is that it's not even being discussed openly much. On the contrary, these women are more than ever being pressured to get the jab with absolutely no way of knowing what long-term consequences of that decision might be for those wanting to start a family. This seems grossly unconscionable to me. As I said earlier, a little prudence here is a perfectly sound and reasonable thing to practice when mulling over taking an experimental, unproven drug. ~Alan Acta Non Verba NRA Life Member (Patron) God, Family, Guns, Country Men will fight and die to protect women... because women protect everything else. ~Andrew Klavan | |||
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| Stupid Allergy  |
I’m beyond irritated by media and government lying as has been pointed out. What pisses me off the most is that there seems to be *nowhere* that’s free of a political opinion on the vaccine. I don’t know how anyone’s opinion could not be skewed by now….one way or the other. There seems to be no one trustworthy. I was in the medical field for close to ten years, granted I was only a paramedic…but I was given more shots and vaccines than I can remember. Never was I conflicted about taking them, sure I would rather not get them but I knew it was much better than the alternative. My dad died from COVID this last February, mom had it too but it barely made her ill. Dad had CHF and COPD though. She’s been getting her antibodies tested every few weeks. Being 82 I feel she should get the jab. Me and my family?? I wish I knew what to do. "Attack life, it's going to kill you anyway." Steve McQueen... | |||
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If she is cognizant let her make the decision, if she struggles just present a balanced approach to her. If she has antibodies What more can the vaccine do? Show her both sides and let her make up her own mind. _________________________ "Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it." Mark Twain | |||
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| Stupid Allergy |
Oh she’s 100% with it and in very good health for an 82 yo. Her bloodwork still shows antibodies from having covid last December. It’s just frustrating not knowing who to trust. I’m on the fence with the whole thing. "Attack life, it's going to kill you anyway." Steve McQueen... | |||
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safe & sound |
This is where I was going with my question earlier. Based on what my friend said, any number below 1 on her lab test would show she was susceptible. Anything greater than 1 and her immune system should be capable of dealing with it. Her results were a 20. She's also going to get retested every 3 months to see how those numbers hold up. Assuming she continues to share with me, I'm curious as to how long her natural antibodies will remain robust. | |||
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| Be not wise in thine own eyes  |
Today the White House credited President Trump with the vaccine. ….And right on cue, the late-evening reporting indicates that tomorrow the CDC will announce the vaccine doesn’t work (against the Delta variant). Bottom line of this narrative shift… vaccinations don’t work. Everything goes back to square one. Blame Trump, not us. There is also data showing that COVID hospitalizations offer no distinction between vaccinated and unvaccinated; and in the example of LA county, the percentage of vaccinated people hospitalized with COVID is identical to the percentage of vaccinated people in the general population. [70% of population vaccinated, 70% of COVID hospitalization patients are vaccinated.] The vaccine offers no benefit from the standing of hospitalization… or so it appears. Link “We’re in a situation where we have put together, and you guys did it for our administration…President Obama’s administration before this. We have put together, I think, the most extensive and inclusive voter fraud organization in the history of American politics,” Pres. Select, Joe Biden “Let’s go, Brandon” Kelli Stavast, 2 Oct. 2021 | |||
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| Lawyers, Guns and Money  |
Jesse, I think you have made a good attempt at informed consent and made the right decision for you... at the time you made it. "Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." -- Justice Janice Rogers Brown "The United States government is the largest criminal enterprise on earth." -rduckwor | |||
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| Lawyers, Guns and Money |
But, yeah, That's also a factor. The more I learn about all the lying and disinformation the more stubborn I get. Coercion is the strongest motivation I need not to get the jab.This message has been edited. Last edited by: chellim1, "Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." -- Justice Janice Rogers Brown "The United States government is the largest criminal enterprise on earth." -rduckwor | |||
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| Cruising the Highway to Hell  |
I’m convinced more everyday that this entire push is just another ploy being used to divide the country. The media, politicians, etc… keep saying those of us that are unvaccinated are keeping this virus alive and being spread. Funny part to me right now, the only people I know of that have had the Delta variant have all been vaccinated. “Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves.” ― Ronald Reagan Retired old fart | |||
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Balze makes a good point above regarding the spike protein injections impact on some women. My wife's hair dresser was 4 months pregnant when she took the poke due to pressure from some of her clients. That same week she miscarried. Ob-gyn/tests couldn't explain why.  | |||
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Member |
And yet the message I'm trying to get across is apparently falling on deaf ears. This MRNA vaccine is 'not' similar to the drugs we've looked upon as vaccines in the past. It's a new animal that approaches the problem differently and 'will' bring with it new challenges. Every new drug does. But the fact that its being marketed as "Totally safe" by those in power should tell you everything you need to know about how disingenuous this whole vaccine push is. Also, have you ever encountered the government pushing 'any' drug like this in the past for a disease we now have over a year's worth of data on that proves Covid is 'not' worse than other viruses we've dealt with in the past? I haven't. These are not normal times, and this is not a 'normal' vaccine. If you're 70+ and in compromised health, the cost/benefit on the vaccine is probably such that it makes sense to get it. If you're <60 and healthy with no comorbidities, exposed to a virus that has been identified by CDC as being 99.7% survivable to that demo, then the cost/benefit is very, very, different. So why risk the unknown effects of a vaccine that we also now know does not prevent a vaccinated person from acquiring and spreading Covid. Let me be painfully clear, I personally don't give a damn if you get a dozen doses of the vaccine of your choice, and wear three or more masks every day. I just wish people would put both their fear and a lot of the BS they're being fed daily on the shelf and do some real research into what's in play right now. Extremely well put and what I truly believe is the primary underlying cause of why so many people refuse to participate in this game. ----------------------------- Guns are awesome because they shoot solid lead freedom. Every man should have several guns. And several dogs, because a man with a cat is a woman. Kurt Schlichter | |||
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if they partnered with a big Pharma I think we'd be seeing something available. Since they didn't, I think they got lost in the mix. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Live today as if it may be your last and learn today as if you will live forever | |||
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| Lawyers, Guns and Money |
This is dated April 16, 2021. I'm not sure if phase 3 testing is finished in the US. https://www.novavax.com/sites/...ion%208_redacted.pdf Novavax Publishes Results of United Kingdom Phase 3 Clinical Trial in New England Journal of Medicine, Demonstrating High Levels of Efficacy of COVID-19 Vaccine Jun 30, 2021 https://ir.novavax.com/2021-06...-of-COVID-19-Vaccine "Some things are apparent. Where government moves in, community retreats, civil society disintegrates and our ability to control our own destiny atrophies. The result is: families under siege; war in the streets; unapologetic expropriation of property; the precipitous decline of the rule of law; the rapid rise of corruption; the loss of civility and the triumph of deceit. The result is a debased, debauched culture which finds moral depravity entertaining and virtue contemptible." -- Justice Janice Rogers Brown "The United States government is the largest criminal enterprise on earth." -rduckwor | |||
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To the OP, thanks for starting this thread. So far, I’m a holdout on any of the vaccines currently being offered but am willing to keep an open mind. Has either moderna or Pfizer published a full report on the results of the initial trials? If so, where might I locate them? Thanks, Silent | |||
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For someone who "doesn't give a damn" to put so much time and effort into "getting your message across" seems a bit incongruous. | |||
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Member |
You don't, but this isn't about the virus, it's all about the jab. They don't mandate flu shots for this contagious and even deadly disease but somehow Covid is "different". This has my antennae at full alert. They lie and censor anything on natural immunity. They lie and censor anything on effective and CHEAP therapies like HCQ and Ivermectin though India has proved their effectiveness. Why so much deception if this pandemic is real? ************* MAGA | |||
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Nullus Anxietas |
Not. Even. Close. A traditional vaccine triggers an immune response. mRNA "vaccines" are genetic engineering. N.B.: The Johnson & Johnson vaccine is a traditional vaccine.
Maybe. The problem is we still don't know what are the long-term (?) effects of the genetic modification the mRNA "vaccines" cause. It could be they'll further-compromise already-compromised health for some individuals.
Neither do I. What I do care about is those who've chosen to roll the dice on an experimental genetic modification insisting we all do, or we're irresponsible science deniers.
Exactly. In my 70 years of life I've come to understand that, in most cases, the more heavily an individual or company advertises their product, the less likely it is it's as good as their competitor's. Put another way: The word spreads about truly good products and services. They don't need to advertise heavily. Their product is their advertisement. The others have to continually try to convince people their product is good. Thus, the harder Big Pharma (which I trust no further than I can spit, anyway), the leftists, and the "news" media pushes these "vaccines," the less inclined I am to trust either their efficacy or their safety. Particularly since they all seem to be going out of their way to down-play or suppress news of safe and effective treatments should one become infected. Perhaps apropos of nothing, because none of the individuals involved got further Covid-19 serology testing: One of my best friends and his wife both recently became sick as hell. My friend so sick he was briefly hospitalized twice. (One would think the hospital would have tested him. Nope. I wonder why not?) Our next-door-neighbors to one side are all sick. They'd all had Covid-19 (tested) and they all subsequently got one-or-another of the jabs. Hmmm... "America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system,,,, but too early to shoot the bastards." -- Claire Wolfe "If we let things terrify us, life will not be worth living." -- Seneca the Younger, Roman Stoic philosopher | |||
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Israel relied only on the Pfizer vaccine. Here are their latest stats. Israel and a few other countries are the petri dish for MRNA vaccines. Funny how we never here from Sweden anymore who did not lock down their population. Here is how they are handing vaccines. Can I decide for myself whether to get vaccinated? Yes. All vaccinations are voluntary in Sweden, including vaccination against COVID-19. If you are offered a vaccination against COVID-19, you will be able decide for yourself, based on the available knowledge of the disease and the vaccine. You will also be given information about the vaccine before you need to make a decision. https://www.folkhalsomyndighet...-19-faq/vaccination/ Coronavirus in Israel: What do we know about the 143 hospitalized people? Of the 143 hospitalized patients, 58% were vaccinated, 39% were not at all, and 3% were partially vaccinated. So far this month, 20 people have died of the virus, compared to nine people last month and 237 in July 2020. Fifteen of the 20 people who died this month were fully vaccinated. https://www.jpost.com/health-s...alized-people-674508 Some 143 Israelis were hospitalized with COVID-19 as of Wednesday at 12 p.m., according to the Health Ministry. Fifty-eight percent of them were vaccinated, 39% were not and 3% were partially vaccinated, meaning they had taken one dose or a full week had not passed since their second shot. Only one patient was a child. Five were pregnant women or women who recently gave birth. Of the country’s 64 serious patients, including 17 in critical condition, there were 12 who were being invasively ventilated. However, while the percentage of vaccinated cases was high, the percentage of those who require invasive treatment was low: Only three fully vaccinated people were being invasively ventilated. Also, only two people were connected to an ECMO external oxygenation machine, and neither of them were vaccinated. Although the number of serious patients is on the rise – with 154 new ones this month compared to only 31 new ones in May and 17 in June – there were 972 new serious cases last July. Some 18,469 Israelis have been listed in serious or critical condition since the start of the pandemic. Thirty of the 143 hospitalized patients were in moderate condition, and 49 in mild condition. Where are they hospitalized? According to the ministry, there are 42 patients in one of the four hospitals in central Israel besides Tel Aviv. Some 37 people are being treated in Tel Aviv, 25 in Haifa, 15 in southern Israel, 15 in northern Israel and another nine in Jerusalem. Meir Medical Center in Kfar Saba has the highest number of patients with 14, and also the highest number of serious cases – along with Beersheba’s Soroka Medical Center – with seven. Hillel Yaffe Medical Center in Hadera followed closely behind with six. No other hospital had any serious patients in the double digits; the highest number of patients at any other facility was nine. How many people have died? Since the start of the coronavirus crisis, 6,452 Israelis have died of the disease. The deadliest month was January 2021, when 1,445 Israelis died. So far this month, 20 people have died of the virus, compared to nine people last month and 237 in July 2020. Fifteen of the 20 people who died this month were fully vaccinated. _________________________ "Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it." Mark Twain | |||
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Member |
So the takeaway from this extremely limited data is while 58% of the people hospitalized were fully vaccinated, 75% of the deaths were fully vaccinated. In this incredibly small sample, people without the vaccine fare better than those who are vaccinated. It's not conclusive and cherry picking data for sure, but one more checkbox in the incredibly long list of items in the "maybe I'll wait and see" column of the pro/ con list. "The people hate the lizards and the lizards rule the people." "Odd," said Arthur, "I thought you said it was a democracy." "I did," said Ford, "it is." "So," said Arthur, hoping he wasn't sounding ridiculously obtuse, "why don't the people get rid of the lizards?" "It honestly doesn't occur to them. They've all got the vote, so they all pretty much assume that the government they've voted in more or less approximates the government they want." "You mean they actually vote for the lizards." "Oh yes," said Ford with a shrug, "of course." "But," said Arthur, going for the big one again, "why?" "Because if they didn't vote for a lizard, then the wrong lizard might get in." | |||
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