quote:

Originally posted by Andyb:

quote:

Originally posted by AggiePhil:

quote:

Originally posted by gino d:
What about Sig silencers the SRD9 & SRD45?? Has anyone picked one up yet, heard one fired, know anything about them??

Vaporware at this point.

They were in stock at the silencer shop for a few hours the other day.

From another thread...

quote:

Originally posted by John@SigSilencers:
Sorry for the delay, we are getting into "Show Season"

SRD9 is in pre-production testing right now.

We tend to go to the extreme when it comes to product testing

Apparently Sig Silencer and Sig MPX guys have different ideas of product testing.

quote:

Originally posted by LDD:
Somewhere at SIG, someone is saying "We told you so."

Tried a Black Rain Ordnance drop-in-trigger (which I strongly suspect is slightly tweaked, rebranded Timney).

Worked great the first magazine--a very fast 30 rounds, no failures. Next magazine = hammer follow (bolt cycles, loads next round, but trigger is dead). This happened 8-9 times as I was trying to diagnose the issue. I finally pulled the pivot pins after one of these FTSs and found the hammer forward, with a live round in the chamber.

Suppressed, unsuppressed, 115, 124 and 147 grain, all the same. Then I installed the same trigger in an AR and found that letting go of the trigger after reset was causing the hammer to drop again. Never loaded it this way, but theoretically, it would let one round go with the backward draw of the trigger and another one on the forward stroke of the trigger. Clearly something wrong.

I suspect, as SIG predicted, that the downward hammer velocity damaged the disconnector. Well, at least we know the BRO trigger is a no-go on the MPX now.

Next up is the Geissele S3G.

Thanks for the report, LDD. I'm also hearing others complain of trigger damage when running aftermarket triggers (without the bridge). I've heard a RUMOR of a Geissele failure, but they were unable to email me pics or copies of the customer service emails between them and Geissele, so for now it's apocryphal. Knowing you, I believe your first hand account, and my desire to see photos of the trigger damage is for curiosity, rather than confirmation. Thx!

quote:

Originally posted by Ferrari Steve:
Knowing you, I believe your first hand account, and my desire to see photos of the trigger damage is for curiosity, rather than confirmation. Thx!

I have before pics, but they are still in my camera and I haven't even uploaded them to my computer for a looksee. I will take "after" photos, but I probably won't be able to get them lined up a in a clinical side-by side (that would require me reinstalling the trigger in the MPX, which I have no interest in doing just for a photo). I think there is now enough wear on the trigger to see what is going on, but will work on the photos tonight.

I plan to take the MPX w/ S3G out today and test it. I will say that I did attempt to install the factory trigger bridge over the S3G and it didn't fit. If it becomes and issue I will see if I can get a moment to Bill at SHOT--hopefully the S3G I have now will not break, but if it does I will have it with me when I go.

"Bill Geissele" comments that Geissele triggers should work without the bridge:

quote:

Bill Geissele:
HK guns also have the bridge. High impulse guns will toss the hammer back violently so that the hammer will hit the disconnector. By repeatedly striking the disconnector it will actually fracture over time. As a trigger similar to the Sig the ALG trigger may have this problem. However, the Geissele triggers are designed so that the bridge is not needed and the hi velocity of the bolt carrier will not effect it. And even if there was a problem Geissele's golden warrenty is always there to help you out.

http://www.stevejenkins.com/bl...-void-your-warranty/

I don't know if this is poster is really Bill. Sounds like him, but you know, it's "the internet" where anyone can be anything.

The thing that bothers me is, I have an SD3G on order and was told that the backorder was 6 weeks. If my S3G, which I pulled out of an AR goes down, I am down 2 premium triggers. Knowledge ain't free

quote:

Originally posted by LDD:
I have before pics, but they are still in my camera and I haven't even uploaded them to my computer for a looksee. I will take "after" photos, but I probably won't be able to get them lined up a in a clinical side-by side (that would require me reinstalling the trigger in the MPX, which I have no interest in doing just for a photo). I think there is now enough wear on the trigger to see what is going on, but will work on the photos tonight.

Awesome. Thank you! I'm primarily interested in seeing what type of visible damage the triggers are sustaining from the hammer. I'm guessing the disconnector is taking the brunt.

quote:

I plan to take the MPX w/ S3G out today and test it. I will say that I did attempt to install the factory trigger bridge over the S3G and it didn't fit. If it becomes and issue I will see if I can get a moment to Bill at SHOT--hopefully the S3G I have now will not break, but if it does I will have it with me when I go.

I also tried to install the bridge over an ALG trigger and a Geissele SSA, and the disconnector on each caused it not to fit. I didn't even bother to try the bridge with the SSA-E I'm currently running.

quote:

"Bill Geissele" comments that Geissele triggers should work without the bridge:

quote:

Bill Geissele:
HK guns also have the bridge. High impulse guns will toss the hammer back violently so that the hammer will hit the disconnector. By repeatedly striking the disconnector it will actually fracture over time. As a trigger similar to the Sig the ALG trigger may have this problem. However, the Geissele triggers are designed so that the bridge is not needed and the hi velocity of the bolt carrier will not effect it. And even if there was a problem Geissele's golden warrenty is always there to help you out.

http://www.stevejenkins.com/bl...-void-your-warranty/

I don't know if this is poster is really Bill. Sounds like him, but you know, it's "the internet" where anyone can be anything.

My favorite Abraham Lincoln quote is "Don't believe everything you read on the Internet."

I *hope* that was really Bill commenting on my blog post, but you're right - anyone can be anyone online. If you do get a chance to talk with him at SHOT, that would be great. You might suggest to him that he start developing a modified disconnector for the SSA triggers (if he hasn't already) that will fit with the MPX bridge. Having an aftermarket trigger that runs with the SIG bridge would likely dominate the aftermarket MPX trigger market.

quote:

The thing that bothers me is, I have an SD3G on order and was told that the backorder was 6 weeks. If my S3G, which I pulled out of an AR goes down, I am down 2 premium triggers. Knowledge ain't free

Ain't THAT the truth. I call it "tuition."

Barrel screw/nut strips receiver.
Was there really a need for exchangeable barrels?
I mean having gas port so close to the chamber is bound to make an exchange mechanism a hard nut to crack, but what is this feature for anyway? Spoke to a few swiss guys who find it laughable.
All in all how does the gas system work for you?
A while ago saw a friend go through a few mags with no trouble except that we could not raise bullet impact at all.
Works in progress.

quote:

Originally posted by schatzperson:
Barrel screw/nut strips receiver.

I've heard of this before but only seen the screws themselves strip. I'll ask about this when I get to SHOT.

quote:

Originally posted by schatzperson:
Was there really a need for exchangeable barrels?

Not really, which is why there are Gen1 guns and Gen2 guns. It's pretty well known that outside of the US, there really is only one pistol caliber: 9mm.

quote:

Originally posted by schatzperson:
I mean having gas port so close to the chamber is bound to make an exchange mechanism a hard nut to crack, but what is this feature for anyway? Spoke to a few swiss guys who find it laughable.

This may have been in anticipation of the 4.5" bbl. Also, kind of like the lower pressure .300 BLK, moving the gas port back removes the possibility of undergassing (which is probably a bigger concern to manufacturers than over-gassing--I've seen it with other manufacturers preferring overgassing as well).

quote:

Originally posted by schatzperson:
All in all how does the gas system work for you?

It has so far for me.

my telescoping stock arrived today finally after a more than 7 month wait.

holy shit that button to extend/collapse is finicky as hell.

there is a small screw underneath this area... does anyone know exactly what it's for?

I loosened it and after that I was able to make the thing telescope as expected - but I do not know if that was just pure coincidence or if it actually has some bearing on the mechanism

quote:

Originally posted by schatzperson:
Barrel screw/nut strips receiver.
Was there really a need for exchangeable barrels?
I mean having gas port so close to the chamber is bound to make an exchange mechanism a hard nut to crack, but what is this feature for anyway? Spoke to a few swiss guys who find it laughable.
All in all how does the gas system work for you?
A while ago saw a friend go through a few mags with no trouble except that we could not raise bullet impact at all.
Works in progress.

SIG should have made the MPX 9mm only with 3 different barrel lengths and 3 stock options.

quote:

Originally posted by creslin:
there is a small screw underneath this area... does anyone know exactly what it's for?

IIRC, that tightens the triangular block against a spring which presses against the metal plate that moves up and down with the press of the button.

I took mine apart (bottom screw, two screws in the 1913 rail channel) and de-greased the whole thing. Works much better now - still finicky, but better.

quote:

Originally posted by Ferrari Steve:
I *hope* that was really Bill commenting on my blog post.

didn't realize that was your blog...have you talked with anyone at Geissele directly? It's a fairly small company, I would think if there was a story of "our triggers don't work in X guns" anyone there who answers the phones would know about it.

The BRO poses certain problems since I cannot actually take it apart to see the parts of the trigger that are inside the housing. I also do not have a macro setup so getting close-in images in focus is a problem, but I've done what I can.

Before:


After:






"new" trigger--note how pointy the disconnector is in this new trigger.



Seems like the high velocity of the hammer chewed up the engagement "claw" area of the disco.

In other news, about 300 rounds through the S3G, which is ~270 more than the BRO did. No trigger related issues at all. Go Geissele or go home. I may eventually replace the S3G in this gun with an SD3G, but the S3G will stay in the MPX for now, will report if I get any trigger related failures.

I do regret that the BRO trigger did not work out--it has what feels like 1/2 the reset travel that the S3G has, and the S3G has a very good reset already. Even with the Geissele trigger, the roving RO stopped by my bay and asked how I was able to get rounds off so quickly. He was tipped off by LEOs that were in another bay.

Not one to take such insinuations lightly, I tracked down the two LEOs and offered them 30 rounds each (two mags each, 15 rounds per mag, one mag suppressed, one mag unsuppressed). They were impressed and are now thinking about personally purchasing MPXs.

quote:

Originally posted by LDD:

quote:

Originally posted by Ferrari Steve:
I *hope* that was really Bill commenting on my blog post.

didn't realize that was your blog...have you talked with anyone at Geissele directly? It's a fairly small company, I would think if there was a story of "our triggers don't work in X guns" anyone there who answers the phones would know about it.

Hehe - thanks for "spamming" another link there.

I keep meaning to give them a call, but was too busy through the holidays. Now that things have slowed down... maybe I will!

quote:

Originally posted by LDD:
The BRO poses certain problems since I cannot actually take it apart to see the parts of the trigger that are inside the housing. I also do not have a macro setup so getting close-in images in focus is a problem, but I've done what I can.

...

Seems like the high velocity of the hammer chewed up the engagement "claw" area of the disco.

Yup. Makes total sense that would be the case. Bummer. Thank you VERY much for those photos.

quote:

In other news, about 300 rounds through the S3G, which is ~270 more than the BRO did. No trigger related issues at all. Go Geissele or go home. I may eventually replace the S3G in this gun with an SD3G, but the S3G will stay in the MPX for now, will report if I get any trigger related failures.

Great to hear. I'll keep my fingers crossed on mine, too.

quote:

I do regret that the BRO trigger did not work out--it has what feels like 1/2 the reset travel that the S3G has, and the S3G has a very good reset already. Even with the Geissele trigger, the roving RO stopped by my bay and asked how I was able to get rounds off so quickly. He was tipped off by LEOs that were in another bay.

Not one to take such insinuations lightly, I tracked down the two LEOs and offered them 30 rounds each (two mags each, 15 rounds per mag, one mag suppressed, one mag unsuppressed). They were impressed and are now thinking about personally purchasing MPXs.

Nice.

I cannot get the S3G to work in my MPX without failure to resets at least once per magazine. When I spoke to Geissele they said.....
 
"Thank you for contacting us. Our triggers will work in the MPX without the stock trigger bridge. However, we would recommend an SSA or SSA-E over a 3 gun trigger due to the longer sear engagement and the better chance of it resetting. We have seen with some 9mm AR15 rifles, the modified bolts (ramped) causes reset issues, the bolt does not push the hammer down far enough to catch the disconnect, which may happen with other 9mm rifles.  I hope this helps. Please let us know if we can be of further assistance."

I have tried everything I know to do to make it work because I love the trigger but it made the gun completely unreliable.

quote:

"better chance of it resetting"

Now THOSE are reassuring words from a trigger manufacturer!

Fwiw, I have nearly 2k rounds downrange w my relatively inexpensive Geissele G2S with no hiccups whatsoever. It is worlds better than stock, too.

https://geissele.com/geissele-2-stage-trigger.html

Will post pics if I can, but last time I did a cleaning everything looked right.

My only complaint, now having to wait for a 4.5" Sig barrel and an Obsidian 45 to reside under the gen 1 handguard.

quote:

Originally posted by LDD:

quote:

Originally posted by Ferrari Steve:
I *hope* that was really Bill commenting on my blog post.

didn't realize that was your blog...

Speaking of that blog article, I just received a comment on it from someone claiming that the GEN2 MPX won't accept "all" AR drop-in triggers.

I don't have a GEN2, can't verify what will or won't fit, but at this point... nothing would surprise me. Still, saying that something won't accept "all" of anything is a safe bet, since I suppose there could be any number of aftermarket triggers out there that aren't MIL-SPEC, and/or are otherwise too (whatever) to work properly.

Here's his comment:

quote:

GEN 2 will NOT accept all AR drop in triggers. I spoke with a gunsmith who is very familiar with the MPX. He said that the Gen 1 has much more clearance inside and can take various triggers. The Gen 2 has much tighter tolerances in the bolt carrier/trigger area. As a result, many AR-15 triggers won't work. The RRA 2 stage trigger won't even let the bolt drop halfway. The Gisselle was very close, but gets hung up right near the end. If there was a forward assist he said it may go into battery, but obviously that's not an option. He said with some modifications to Gisselle trigger could make work.
Please keep this in mind.
Normally I would just have a trigger job done by a gunsmith to make it lighter, smoother and crisper but the 3 gunsmiths I know all have 8 week waits.
My next project with be to replace the trigger spring with the JP reduced power spring and see if that makes it a little nicer. Otherwise it looks like Gen 2 downers are stuck with it.

His comment that the "Gen 2 has much tighter tolerances in the bolt carrier/trigger area" makes me scratch my head a little, since the "trigger area" and the "bolt carrier area" aren't really the same "area." Trigger is in the lower, BCG is in the upper.

quote:

Originally posted by johntsi:
I cannot get the S3G to work in my MPX without failure to resets at least once per magazine.

Out of curiosity, what generation is your MPX? And did your failures start right away or did they creep in? If so, what round count did you start to have hammer-follow?

quote:

Originally posted by Ferrari Steve:
I spoke with a gunsmith who is very familiar with the MPX...

This is interesting because the platform is so new, I don't know of any gunsmith who would be "very familiar" with the MPX and also not work at SIG.

The poster mis-spells Geissele and the S3G works in my Gen2. Also, the poster doesn't specify which Geissele he is referring to.

I wonder if he got snowed by a "gunsmith" who just didn't have a Geissele or RRA in stock to sell him at the time.

Both the Geissele and the BRO trigger fit fine in my MPX "Gen2". There is no reason SIG would need to change their lowers, but I'll check next time I see a Gen1 in the shop.

Maybe he is talking about installing both the triggers and the trigger bridge at the same time?

quote:

Originally posted by LDD:

This is interesting because the platform is so new, I don't know of any gunsmith who would be "very familiar" with the MPX and also not work at SIG.

The poster mis-spells Geissele and the S3G works in my Gen2. Also, the poster doesn't specify which Geissele he is referring to.

I wonder if he got snowed by a "gunsmith" who just didn't have a Geissele or RRA in stock to sell him at the time.

Both the Geissele and the BRO trigger fit fine in my MPX "Gen2". There is no reason SIG would need to change their lowers, but I'll check next time I see a Gen1 in the shop.

Maybe he is talking about installing both the triggers and the trigger bridge at the same time?

We had many of the same thoughts...